Apologies if i'm about to get the terminology wrong. I have an AK whose barrel/trunnion was installed askew, making the barrel tilt left (or right, i can't remember and don't have it with me). I don't know the degree of tilt, so let's call it slight. I've heard this is not uncommon and the gun remains usable, but i haven't heard how it affects optics and their mounts.
I'm torn between an RS Regulate side-rail mount and an Ultimak gas-tube mount. The RS Regulate offers more mounting options, optic choices, and better rifle balance. But it will not be aligned with the barrel, requiring any optic compensate for the barrel tilt. It seems that except for its zero range, every other range would require windage offset. The Ultimak shouldn't have the same alignment problem, but limits my optic choice and adds a bit more weight forward.
So, does anyone have a recommendation? Is an Ultimak the logical choice, will neither option compensate enough, or am i blowing this tilt issue out of proportion?
local_dirt or jeeper, do either of you have experience running AK's with tilted barrels? That's what's specifically holding me back from getting a side rail installed and using the RS Regulate mounts.
By "tilted barrel", i mean it isn't in line with the receiver. If you look down the length of the gun from stock to muzzle, you can see the barrel is tilted, or leaning, or bends to the left (or right, i can't remember which). It's not actually bent, just that the trunnion was misaligned when initially welded in place. I think.
Go slick. Misaligned trunnion is something you go to the doctor for that your insurance doesn't cover. The Russians put their aiming gear on the barrel...hint...hint. Ultimak gas tube mount for a low, low power or dot, or a rear sight replacing mount for same. Fussing so much over a Kalashnikov is strictly for squares, Slick.
Russians put their aiming gear aft of the barrel, too. But my guess is if they were selecting rifles for such optic setups, this one would be passed over. I'm leaning Ultimak now.
local_dirt or jeeper, do either of you have experience running AK's with tilted barrels? That's what's specifically holding me back from getting a side rail installed and using the RS Regulate mounts.
I have one that has a very slight canting front sight, doesn't really matter for the ranges I shoot it at , 200 or less. Have heard of canted trunnions and don't think that is an easy fix. canted front sight can be corrected fairly easy, there are videos on youtube. I have used the ultimak with red dot and that works prettty good. Heat from barrel into the mount can effect cheap red dot sights , I found that out after doing mag dumps one day. Have a RS Regulate on another with a 3x optic , for "long range", it works well.
Russians put their aiming gear aft of the barrel, too. But my guess is if they were selecting rifles for such optic setups, this one would be passed over. I'm leaning Ultimak now.
If you're going red dot, I really don't see any reason to do otherwise.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want.
Other than your sight question... Is this the vector stamped receiver rifle you posted about Awhile back.
Did this cant of barrel, trunnion and receiver develop from firing the rifle of however many # of rounds since owning it and you began to notice it as it became pronounced
Or did it exist intially when ya bought it and ya didnt check basic alignment of the center line of the rifle?
If it developed from firing since ya had it. It is one of several things possible An uneven heat treat on one side of the receiver in the trunnion rivet holes or barrel pin hole causing them to oblong on that side and your barrel drifting off centerline.
Only cure New receiver and new rivets new barrel pin
Another possibility is over pressed or under pressed rivets on one side or other. Causing same issue. Solution new rivet job.
Another possibility is a cast trunnion that was badly molded or is failing or cracking and combine that with oblonging holes.
Solution Buy a wasr 10. Best built "entry" level Ak on the market. Jmo And many many others.
The big question is when ya got it . Did you know how to inspect it Was their 2or 3 in stock to inspect andpick the best one. Or did ya buy it sight unseen online.
Buying an ak You really gotta basically have some knowledge and know how to QC Inspect em in depth. Muzzle to buttstock ya gotta really check em out.
A good stamped AK Will have completely even shaped uncracked undimpled rivets 100% Espically both sides of the trunnions front and rear Any defect in front trunnion rivets Dont buy that gun . They will drift and get progressively worse Forged heat treated and milled trunnions are a must. Cast trunnions are problems waiting to happen Heat treated receiver is a must. Forged heat treated and milled bolt and op rod Are a must Stay away from cast and milled op rods They will fail... Improperly heat treated bolts are like clay and will deform inthe tail and lugs Hot or cold hammer forged chrome lined barrels. Are a must They dont fail and overheat excessively or wear prematurely especially in throat and leade. Leade/ intial rifling erosion is a problem in non chrome lined ak barrels espically with prolonged rapid fire. Some times non chrome lined and non hammer hot or cold forged barrels Will head space when cold But after 2 or 3 mag dumps They fail Not good Out of battery firing issues can happen.
Boom.......
You will get at least 35k rounds outta a proper chrome lined barrel At least...
The wasr 10 has all of these features Their QC has improved light years since 2013 Most places that sell em local will have 3 or 4 usually Inspect and purchase the best one.
I had a wasr 10/63 I sold about 6 months ago for 500 1982 model That rifle had 25k to 30k rounds thru it when I bought it after a in depth inspection Idid onit and shooting it. I replaced the rear trunnion (cracked) on the gun and both rivets. 45 bucks.... It was a range gun I bought for 250 dollars It got run hard. I put about 6k additional rounds thru that gun.
When i sold it. I completely broke the gun down to stripped receiver level. And went completely thru it with dude buying it. It had a cracked rivet head about1/3rd across the dome of the mag release lever base rivets. I told the buyer its on you bud. 10 dollar fix take it to G&G It was a learning point for the buyer as far as I felt.
Teaching him how to inspect for stuff The gun was solid
It was a wasr.......
Im not sure if any of the experience of inspecting a gun applies in your case or your got it sight unseen via a website.
I dont know much about vectors.
But I have never heard their rifles drug thru the mud either.
Ak to stay the fugg away from
Any Vermont made in the USA ak The Ras 47 and c39 v2 I had a c39v2 After about 750 rds. The tail on my op rod was peening. That gun was very accurate. But everyone was experiencing lots of metallurgy issues with em The online sites are full of c39v2,s forsale now and they dont sell. I'm glad Igot rid of mine fast. Both are plagued with hard and soft metal issues and cast compomnents. The only exception is the VSKA it has tool steel components but a regular barrel. But for 75 to 100 bucks more you can buy a wasr 10 built right and built like a tank. Anything IO.... they blow the fugg up Head space, soft receivers, massive slop and alignment and binding issues Riley defense and ATI. soft metal and cast components.
Junk........
If ya cant find a wasr 10 Get a zastava m70 Beefed up stamped receiver Forged milled heat treated components. But not chrome lined barrel But a excellent gun in it's own right.
People that think an AK is an AK is an AK Probably dont know much about the AK...
not saying you are a novice as the op. I don't know that Just trying to spread some advice and knowledge from 1st hand experience and observations.
But their is alot of info available out their.
Buying one via a web site takes your ability to spot faults out of the process of buying the best one you can.
Its akin to looking at 3 black walnut stocked rifles and picking the one with the best grain patterns and solid even bluing appearance wise.
I used an ultimak mount to put the Docter Optic on my SA93. I can't imagine any thing working better. I don't remember any misaligned trunions on the many AK rifles I have owned.
I used an ultimak mount to put the Docter Optic on my SA93. I can't imagine any thing working better. I don't remember any misaligned trunions on the many AK rifles I have owned.
Probably cause you have had decent ones with the right combo of correctly made and assembled parts.
Lots of fly by night elcheapo AK,s out their now. Sadly most of em are american company made trying to cut cost on things. They know what is right and wrong. But choose the low cost max profit model and price their guns the same as well built overseas imports. Some think if it is the same price or slightly cheaper then buying the american one is the way to go. Unbeknownst to that person sometimes they are getting flim flamed by a american company. I'm talking commercial companies, not reputable quality builders that put out excellent built american AK,s. IO Century (made in Vermont guns) Riley ATI are ones to advoid or go look for a Wasr 10 at the comparable price. Skipping assembly steps probably ain't just happening only at IO.
I contacted this guy intially to see if he was interested in trading one of his AKG builds for the Walther G43 I brought back to life. Spoke at lenght to his receptionist. Never heard anything back. No biggie. Got my Arsenal SLR 100H in a trade for it insted.
Im not in the AK market but looks like these meet renegade's suggestions far as everything is forged. Also nitride barrels are just as good as chromlined barrels.
Im not in the AK market but looks like these meet renegade's suggestions far as everything is forged. Also nitride barrels are just as good as chromlined barrels.
Palmetto said they was introducing their new AK- E with all the good stuff the gf3 has and beefed up other things it will have, plus a huge upgrade with a FN chf mg barrel. People are selling off their gf3,s online which are good rifles in anticipation of these AK- E,s coming out this month from what PSA said at the shot show in january.
I was tempted to get a Gf3 late last winter Then I heard about their AK- E When they made the gf3 available They sold out their 1st run in 2hrs
These AK-E,s will go like hot cakes also.
For a 550 to 700 gun depending on furniture. The gf3 is a great buy.
These new AK-E,s will cause people to get into trouble with their wives and checking accounts....
I think alot of guys are selling their gf3,s to offset the cost of a new AK-E and not get yelled at so badly by their old ladies. I bet they will be 700 to 875ish depending on furniture.
Hahaha!!! I would do the same honestly to offset the upgrade cost.
Im not in the AK market but looks like these meet renegade's suggestions far as everything is forged. Also nitride barrels are just as good as chromlined barrels.
Palmetto said they was introducing their new AK- E with all the good stuff the gf3 and beefed up other things it will have,plus a FN chf mg barrel. People are selling off their gf3,s online which are good rifles in anticipation of these AK- E,s coming out this month from what PSA said at the shot show in january.
I was tempted to get a Gf3 late last winter Then I heard about their AK- E When they made the gf3 available They sold out their 1st run in 2hrs
These AK-E,s will go like hot cakes also.
For a 550 to 700 gun depending on furniture. The gf3 is a great buy.
These new AK-E,s will cause people to get into trouble with their wives and checking accounts....
I think alot of guys are selling their gf3,s to offset the cost of a new AK-E and not get yelled at so badly by their old ladies. I bet they will be 700 to 875ish depending on furniture.
Hahaha!!! I would do the same honestly to offset the upgrade cost.
A lot folks don't realize psa invested in a couple hammer forgers. I read the blurb over on AR15.com. Posted pictures etc, So psa is able to make a lot things in house now and at cheap South Carolina wages 🙂. I'm assuming the guy that made that video either doesn't know or that video is pretty old. I just wonder is psa making those barrel .311 or traditional .308
Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Im not in the AK market but looks like these meet renegade's suggestions far as everything is forged. Also nitride barrels are just as good as chromlined barrels.
Palmetto said they was introducing their new AK- E with all the good stuff the gf3 and beefed up other things it will have,plus a FN chf mg barrel. People are selling off their gf3,s online which are good rifles in anticipation of these AK- E,s coming out this month from what PSA said at the shot show in january.
I was tempted to get a Gf3 late last winter Then I heard about their AK- E When they made the gf3 available They sold out their 1st run in 2hrs
These AK-E,s will go like hot cakes also.
For a 550 to 700 gun depending on furniture. The gf3 is a great buy.
These new AK-E,s will cause people to get into trouble with their wives and checking accounts....
I think alot of guys are selling their gf3,s to offset the cost of a new AK-E and not get yelled at so badly by their old ladies. I bet they will be 700 to 875ish depending on furniture.
Hahaha!!! I would do the same honestly to offset the upgrade cost.
A lot folks don't realize psa invested in a couple hammer forgers. I read the blurb over on AR15.com. Posted pictures etc, So psa is able to make a lot things in house now and at cheap South Carolina wages 🙂. I'm assuming the guy that made that video either doesn't know or that video is pretty old. I just wonder is psa making those barrel .311 or traditional .308
I would hope .311 It would only make sense market and safety wise.
PSA has come along ways.... For the better.
Gonna be interesting to see reviews about the AK-E might wind up punching myself in the nuts wanting one.
Fugg it.... I have a top shelf Arsenal production rifle And see if a major american manufacturer can hit a home run with a American AK
My SA 93 is old school, imported from Bulgaria. Some years back, I swapped enough parts out to make it legal. Trigger group, KVar stock and some other parts. It's a shooter now, with the Docter Optic dot sight, Surefire light.
Arsenal SLR 100H Type 3 pattern. Gordon Tech build. W/ Bulgarian type 1 bayo I scored at a gunshow for 12 bucks. No optic mount on LS either. Some day I might put a optic on it. My eyes are still good and the rifle is dailed in and very accurate. Slide has been confirmed to 300m.
Wow, renegade. That's a lot of info. Thanks. It is the Vector I mentioned in an earlier post. I bought it about 12 years go at my then-LGS. Had them order it for me after a recommendation. Didn't know much about AK builds and thought i was getting a top-of-the-line model at the time. I've learned a bit since then, and i'm at the "the more you know, the more you realize you don't know" stage with them. Seem like if you buy an AK, you're buying a house and you better know a bit about everything in it, or know a guy who does.
My Vector doesn't currently live with me, and i don't get to see or shoot it often. I've been wanting to upgrade its sighting options for years and that's how i noticed the barrel cant. I'm not sure how it happened, though i've only put a few hundred rounds through it. A few mag dumps, too. I'll just have to inspect it better the next time i see it, then consider the re-riveting options, or just Ultimak it and go buy a WASR to use with my RS Regulate mounts.
Wow, renegade. That's a lot of info. Thanks. It is the Vector I mentioned in an earlier post. I bought it about 12 years go at my then-LGS. Had them order it for me after a recommendation. Didn't know much about AK builds and thought i was getting a top-of-the-line model at the time. I've learned a bit since then, and i'm at the "the more you know, the more you realize you don't know" stage with them. Seem like if you buy an AK, you're buying a house and you better know a bit about everything in it, or know a guy who does.
My Vector doesn't currently live with me, and i don't get to see or shoot it often. I've been wanting to upgrade its sighting options for years and that's how i noticed the barrel cant. I'm not sure how it happened, though i've only put a few hundred rounds through it. A few mag dumps, too. I'll just have to inspect it better the next time i see it, then consider the re-riveting options, or just Ultimak it and go buy a WASR to use with my RS Regulate mounts.
Curious how you're going to do anything with that Vector if it doesn't live with you?
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want.
Wow, renegade. That's a lot of info. Thanks. It is the Vector I mentioned in an earlier post. I bought it about 12 years go at my then-LGS. Had them order it for me after a recommendation. Didn't know much about AK builds and thought i was getting a top-of-the-line model at the time. I've learned a bit since then, and i'm at the "the more you know, the more you realize you don't know" stage with them. Seem like if you buy an AK, you're buying a house and you better know a bit about everything in it, or know a guy who does.
My Vector doesn't currently live with me, and i don't get to see or shoot it often. I've been wanting to upgrade its sighting options for years and that's how i noticed the barrel cant. I'm not sure how it happened, though i've only put a few hundred rounds through it. A few mag dumps, too. I'll just have to inspect it better the next time i see it, then consider the re-riveting options, or just Ultimak it and go buy a WASR to use with my RS Regulate mounts.
This next time you shoot it Use your iron sights Make no sight adjustments thru out this. Bench it shoot 2 5 shot groups into same target at 25 or 50 Using same aiming point. Do 2 or 3 30rd mag dumps downrange Get back on bench fast
Shoot at exact same target again the same way as before. If those hot groups wander more than an inch at 25 and more than 2 at 50 Chances are you have rivet, rivet holes, barrel pin or trunion issues or a combo of em.
I seen a riley defense gun wander almost 4 inches at 25 about 3 yrs ago. Not good espically if ya multiply that as distance increases I was out shooting the c39v2 I got rid of. And was running the same rountine I told the older Guy with the riley to try. He was having alot of issues zeroing the gun and couldn't figure out why his zero adjustments always changed from cold to hot and then the next range session
Push comes to shove not all components in the gun are bad. Might be a simple fix like repressing the barrel and setting in a new pin. Or just sell it as is and get something else.
20 shots 1 minute ( actually about 50 seconds) 100 m iron sight. Mirage off the barrel and blurring front sight the last 7 or 8 rds bad.... Ran it today after doing some trigger polishing and some slight file work on my comp brake the last couple of days.
Had ta adjust sights just a little prior to this, not much though.
Had 70rds left after shooting the target. Ran some controlled pairs and triples at 50m Did some position shooting at broken clay pigeons and small rocks on the berm at around 115 to 120m. Stuck the bayonet on it for 10rds. Barrel incredibly stable with the bayo on it . Made the comp brake feel like a howitser. And the comp brake works really well. Had a good day.
Need ta go confirm my slide again out to 300m on iron Mike's at Montgomery county shooting complex. Just gotta hit it on a day with light or no wind
Original Tapco slot brake design. Had .320 face plate opening on it. Knew of and shot other designs along with this one in the past. Started looking at ideas I could use from other designs on the web And their are some funky ones for sure. This ran good as a brake but it left some to be desired in its comp/ recoil effect.
Finalized version Made a top rib gone. Opened up side ports Made angle on front. Eased up alot of gas flow and got alot of it going in the right directions to work as a comp brake. Adjusted sights today literally 1/ 8th turn on windage and 1/4 th turn elevation Really good performance with it like this as a comp brake. Fugging 20 dollar tube of steel originally that I took certain features from comp brakes costing 75 to 150 bucks. And it's way simpler than many of em and easy to clean. The only other muzzle device I wanna try is Definitive Arms Fighter brake for 40 bucks.
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/7KLvnD2.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/102209.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/102417.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/102597.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/102599.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/102598.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/102601.jpg)