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Of course it makes a difference. There is a lot of bullshitting going on.
If 2000 fps was the magic velocity, then the 22lr and 22WMR rifles would be equal with 40gr hollow points. I don't think anybody can make that argument either, at least not with a straight face. Well said, Montana Marine.
abusus non tollit usum
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Campfire 'Bwana
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no permanent wound cavity much bigger than the bullet diameter until the bullet is over 2100-2200 or so FPS or unless it fragments..... That is patently false. Where did you read that? Total BS is what it is.
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Example a Lehigh monometal flat point non expanding bullet same caliber same weight one fired at 950 FPS the other fired at 1400 FPS the faster bullet will produce more damage.
If that is your experience, I don't doubt you one bit. My question was a bit different: Two .44 caliber bullets, 250 grain and 300 grain, same nose shape, equal meplat diameters, both hard cast and do not expand. Load each to however "hot" you are comfortable with, but each loaded as hot as the other. (Maybe different charge weights, maybe different powders, but each load is equal as far as how hard you are "leaning on the gun." This probably means equal peak chamber pressure.) The lighter bullet will be faster, correct? Assume that on the animal in question, and the angle of the shot, both bullets exit. So depth of penetration is "total." In this case, you will pick the lighter, faster bullet, because it will do more damage, correct? But on a bigger animal, or a situation where you may have to take a poor angle shot, you might choose the heavier, slower bullet to ensure sufficient penetration, correct? If bullet construction is equal the faster bullet will produce more damage through lung and or heart without a doubt. With mono metal flat point bullets I’m not sure that weight is as important as it is with lead type bullets. Buffalo Bore has a Dangerous Game Line of revolver bullets using the Leigh mono metal in r4 mag they load a 265 grain at a claimed 1425 FPS. Grizzly Ammo loads at 300 grain Punch Bullet at 1200 assuming equal meplats I would not be surprised if penetration was a wash.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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if you shot a small 120 pound deer in the ass side to side, which would be more devastating to the deer? A 300 grain 44 magnum at 1200 fps or a 220 swift with a 40 grain nosler? Now apply this same thing to a 600 pound bear, the bear would stuff the swift up YOUR ass but the deer would be flattened by the thing. The opening post mentioned nothing about rifle bullets, you can’t connect those dots.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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look up wound ballistics of high velocity cartridges.
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look up wound ballistics of high velocity cartridges. Seriously? That is your “source” backing your statement?
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For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction.
So there you go . . . nowhere!
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if you shot a small 120 pound deer in the ass side to side, which would be more devastating to the deer? A 300 grain 44 magnum at 1200 fps or a 220 swift with a 40 grain nosler? Now apply this same thing to a 600 pound bear, the bear would stuff the swift up YOUR ass but the deer would be flattened by the thing. Use the right bullet and the swift will do the job well. Not a problem. The original question was basically, two of the same bullets and in one case one is driven faster than the other, will the faster one make a larger wound channel. Ive shot too many big and small things that had a much larger wound channel at velocities much less speed than the over 2000fps mandate listed. Ive seen it. Dont care what studies show
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look up wound ballistics of high velocity cartridges. You are full of crap and don’t understand what you read or observe is apparent. If yo7 were correct then a 357 mag would be no more effective than a 38 Special which is not the case
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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look up wound ballistics of high velocity cartridges. Is hit a fallow deer with a 425 grain flat point hard cast at 1380 FPS through both lungs and removed a 3 to 4 inch diameter section of lung tissue. Your claim is hogwash at best.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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No sir, no bullshitting, under 2200 or so fps the temporary wound channel is the wound channel. If you shoot a 45 caliber bullet the collateral damage under 2200 fps is limited to a smaller area around the bullet channel. When you reach a certain velocity then the temporary wound channel expansion is permanent. First I would not want to shoot a bear with a 5.56 as penetration would not be there. OTOH at 40-50 yards a 55 grain FMJ 5.56 round into your chest will FYU, and you probably will not make the hospital. A 44 magnum 255 grain slug thru the same hole if it was off center might not kill you. It AINT hydrostatic shock, its when yo tissue cannot stretch any further and it just tears. The collateral damage is just greater with high velocity rounds. I noticed while hunting that a 5.56 thru a deers chest under 100 yards will kill them just as fast or faster than a 30-06 at the same distance...poor comparison I guess. I guess I don't understand the argument very well. I offered the 22LR/22WMR example as it is something I shot a lot of ground squirrels with as a kid, and the WMR did a LOT more damage, with velocities around 1200/1800 respectively. You could compare wounds from a 158gr JHP fired at 800 fps from a 38 Spl handgun, and the same bullet out of a 357 Carbine at 1800 fps. The difference will be dramatic.
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...i still wonder why and how this idea got going about some magic 2000fps?!?! I think it has been introduced with discussions of hydro-static shock. Somehow, it morphed to include the wound channel. I think the idea is that hydro-static disruption occurs with handguns, too, but just not to the extent of increasing the permanent wound cavity. For that, the bullet needs to exceed about 2000 fps.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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...i still wonder why and how this idea got going about some magic 2000fps?!?! I think it has been introduced with discussions of hydro-static shock. Somehow, it morphed to include the wound channel. I think the idea is that hydro-static disruption occurs with handguns, too, but just not to the extent of increasing the permanent wound cavity. For that, the bullet needs to exceed about 2000 fps. No wound channels increas in revolver and pistols as velocity increases, that is why a 357 is more effective than a 38 Special. The 2000 FPS threshold is about secondary wounding.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Notice how the wound channel increas with velocity in revolvers with flat point hard cast bullets. http://rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/methods.html
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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I am posting these for tradmark. The animals are deer, so nothing exotic for the naysayers to complain about. tradmark will elaborate. Lung damage (half a lung is missing) from a .41 Mag Swift A-frame at 1,680 fps. These next two show the huge crater in the lungs from a .460 S&W loaded with a 300 A-frame with an impact velocity of 1,800 fps - this is after the bullet traveled from a ham to the front end of the deer. This is a hole in a lung from a large meplat 440 grain cast bullet from a .480 at 1,100 fps -- this is for those who think these things make a caliber sized hole.
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The point of the photos is to show how even a smaller bullet does leave a much larger wound than something larger going slower. Also pretty obvious that theres permanent wound channels larger than caliber sized and speed matters. Needless to say the fast 41 does a larger wound channel than the big 480 solid. Doesnt go as deep but doesnt need to.
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Don't you know that it's rude to prove a point with real results?
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Don't you know that it's rude to prove a point with real results? But, but, but.....I read....
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Its what i deal with in the hospital all the time. Dr, havent you read the studies?!?! That doesnt help with rsv bronchiolitis!! Well every time i give it they breath better, oxygen levels go up and respiratory rate goes to normal! But the studies doc!!e
Actually doing something usually changes a persons previously worthless opinion
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Its what i deal with in the hospital all the time. Dr, havent you read the studies?!?! That doesnt help with rsv bronchiolitis!! Well every time i give it they breath better, oxygen levels go up and respiratory rate goes to normal! But the studies doc!!e Studies that go counter to result are useless
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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