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#13893982 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jimmyp]  
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Originally Posted by jimmyp
if you could get a 45 caliber 300 grain bullet going 2300 or faster FPS in a man portable firearm you would really have something. Velocity seems to matter. Why do all objective studies which I know are totally useless here on the fire show that there is not that much difference in handgun wounding power between 380 and 44 magnum?



Ever hear of a 458 Lott? Anyone that claims not much difference in wounding ability from a 380 to a 44 mag is full of crapr

Last edited by jwp475; 06/12/19.


I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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#13893989 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jwp475]  
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458 lott is a rifle, you guys just cannot believe that penetration past 14 inches has no bearing on wounding in two legged animals under 350 pounds. Didn't that Muslim yelling alah akbar at fort hood kill dead a bunch of people with a piss ant FN 5.7? If he had been using a 44 magnum I guess they would have been deader. Andy Obama is a muslim himself for calling it workplace violence.


#13893990 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jimmyp]  
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Originally Posted by jimmyp
if you could get a 45 caliber 300 grain bullet going 2300 or faster FPS in a man portable firearm you would really have something. Velocity seems to matter. Why do all objective studies which I know are totally useless here on the fire show that there is not that much difference in handgun wounding power between 380 and 44 magnum?



What studies are you talking about specifically? We already have a portable platform that will shoot a 300 grain .45 bullet around 2,000 fps and the results are quite spectacular - ON GAME. Jimmy, you really need to get out and shoot some deer with a .380 and then with a .44 Mag and again tell me there is not much difference between the two with a straight face.

Last edited by Whitworth1; 06/12/19.

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The Gun Digest Book of Hunting Revolvers:
https://youtu.be/zKJbjjPaNUE

Bovine Bullet Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtZky8T7-k&t=35s

Gun Digest TV's Modern Shooter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGo-KMpXPpA&t=7s
#13893993 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jimmyp]  
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I shot a small buck once with a 240 grain SJHP and nearly blew the off shoulder completely off. Only a small amount of meat and skinn held the shoulder to the deer.

Show me a 380 doing that



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#13893996 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jwp475]  
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2 legged stand up straight studies say they are about the same within 20%, two legged stand up straight animals are pussies compared to a small buck.


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#13894004 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jimmyp]  
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Originally Posted by jimmyp
2 legged stand up straight studies say they are about the same within 20%, two legged stand up straight animals are pussies compared to a small buck.


Specific studies? Do you have any links? Can you cite a study specifically? Humans and deer are roughly the same size and about as hard to penetrate. It's not a bad comparison, and I'm not talking about their will to live, just the physical attributes.


Max Prasac

Semper Fidelis

The Gun Digest Book of Hunting Revolvers:
https://youtu.be/zKJbjjPaNUE

Bovine Bullet Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtZky8T7-k&t=35s

Gun Digest TV's Modern Shooter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGo-KMpXPpA&t=7s
#13894006 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jimmyp]  
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jwp475 Offline
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Originally Posted by jimmyp
2 legged stand up straight studies say they are about the same within 20%, two legged stand up straight animals are pussies compared to a small buck.



Pure crap nothing but BS. A stand up 300 pounder compared to a 100 pound small buck. Sure! Laughing my azz off. The wound are not the same in either.



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
#13894020 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jwp475]  
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".….Didn't that Muslim yelling alah akbar at fort hood kill dead a bunch of people with a piss ant FN 5.7?."


You just made the argument we are all talking about. FN shooting 40gr VMax around 1800 fps. Does a lot more damage than a 22LR shooting 40gr HP at 1200 fps.



And well below 2000 fps. Velocity matters, even under 2K fps.

#13894023 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jwp475]  
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Velocity and bullet design both matter.

#13894042 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jimmyp]  
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Originally Posted by jimmyp
458 lott is a rifle, you guys just cannot believe that penetration past 14 inches has no bearing on wounding in two legged animals under 350 pounds. Didn't that Muslim yelling alah akbar at fort hood kill dead a bunch of people with a piss ant FN 5.7? If he had been using a 44 magnum I guess they would have been deader. Andy Obama is a muslim himself for calling it workplace violence.



Again you miss the point totally, what alternate universe do you live in? Do you think the 22 LR at 1200 out of a Rifle will do the same damage as the FN 40 grain at 1800?



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Bravo

#13894046 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: MontanaMarine]  
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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
".….Didn't that Muslim yelling alah akbar at fort hood kill dead a bunch of people with a piss ant FN 5.7?."


You just made the argument we are all talking about. FN shooting 40gr VMax around 1800 fps. Does a lot more damage than a 22LR shooting 40gr HP at 1200 fps.



And well below 2000 fps. Velocity matters, even under 2K fps.


Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Velocity and bullet design both matter.



Exactly



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
#13894101 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jwp475]  
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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
".….Didn't that Muslim yelling alah akbar at fort hood kill dead a bunch of people with a piss ant FN 5.7?."


You just made the argument we are all talking about. FN shooting 40gr VMax around 1800 fps. Does a lot more damage than a 22LR shooting 40gr HP at 1200 fps.



And well below 2000 fps. Velocity matters, even under 2K fps.


Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Velocity and bullet design both matter.



Exactly




This


Actually doing something usually changes a persons previously worthless opinion
#13894114 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jimmyp]  
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Originally Posted by jimmyp
if you could get a 45 caliber 300 grain bullet going 2300 or faster FPS in a man portable firearm you would really have something. Velocity seems to matter. Why do all objective studies which I know are totally useless here on the fire show that there is not that much difference in handgun wounding power between 380 and 44 magnum?



Im not sure of what studies you speak. However, it doesnt take much real life evidence to know which studies are academic nonsense and which arent. Ive been in the chest cavity of shooting victims of a number of bullet wounds. To think theres not much of a difference bw a 357 mag and a 380 is just laughable. Never have seen a center chest 357 wound in surgery because they are basically already dead. Not so with a 380. To bring that up to a 44 mag is just getting silly. Thats when you just dismiss the studies right away.

People and deer arent much difference toughness wise. Thats why i posted pics of deer.


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#13894786 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: Tradmark]  
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So you guys actually believe that a 45 ACP with any bullet is more than 20% more lethal than a 9mm with any bullet?


#13894814 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jimmyp]  
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Originally Posted by jimmyp
So you guys actually believe that a 45 ACP with any bullet is more than 20% more lethal than a 9mm with any bullet?


That’s not nearly as absurd as the .380 and .44 Mag being close. Let’s get back on topic.

Can you cite a study?


Max Prasac

Semper Fidelis

The Gun Digest Book of Hunting Revolvers:
https://youtu.be/zKJbjjPaNUE

Bovine Bullet Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtZky8T7-k&t=35s

Gun Digest TV's Modern Shooter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGo-KMpXPpA&t=7s
#13894896 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jwp475]  
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I dont know how one quantifies percentages of lethality and that there in lies the rub. Academics trying to quantify it is where the problems come in. What i can say is a 45 acp makes a lot deeper and larger hole than a 380. Period and end if story.


Actually doing something usually changes a persons previously worthless opinion
#13895055 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: dvnv]  
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Originally Posted by dvnv
What gun are you using to shoot the .41 A-Frame?

I assume it is 210 gr bullet, correct?

thanks, dvnv


Originally Posted by dvnv
What gun are you using to shoot the .41 A-Frame?

I assume it is 210 gr bullet, correct?

thanks, dvnv





I loaded them so they would run out of the levergun where i habe them run out of the freedom arms 41 mag i have. The rifle will give better ballistics but the pistol can be loaded to a much much higher pressure. I do this to get more information on pistol cartridge wound dynamics and since i have 7 kiddos to take hunting i can get alot of info if they shoot pistol chambered carbines when theyre young. My son matt was shooting a henry leveraction to take his first 10 deer and is now transitioning to big bore pistols and has taken a few deer with a 41 mag and a downloaded 454 casull.


Actually doing something usually changes a persons previously worthless opinion
#13895123 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jimmyp]  
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Originally Posted by jimmyp
So you guys actually believe that a 45 ACP with any bullet is more than 20% more lethal than a 9mm with any bullet?



Where do you come up with this?



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
#13895143 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jwp475]  
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Hint................


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#13895729 - 06/12/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: jwp475]  
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#13895864 - 06/13/19 Re: Answer This Question [Re: MontanaMarine]  
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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
".….Didn't that Muslim yelling alah akbar at fort hood kill dead a bunch of people with a piss ant FN 5.7?."


You just made the argument we are all talking about. FN shooting 40gr VMax around 1800 fps. Does a lot more damage than a 22LR shooting 40gr HP at 1200 fps.



And well below 2000 fps. Velocity matters, even under 2K fps.

you have me confused, I am arguing that velocity is as important as bullet size and mass. I argued that the 5.7 with its 40 grain bullet at 1800 was as or more lethal than a 9mm ir 45ACP. I never have mentioned a 22 LR in this discussion that I recollect. Does anyone want to argue that a 55 grain 5.56 at 2600 FPS is less lethal than a 240 grain 44 magnum at 1300FPS applied into the chest cavity? Secondly that handguns of all common calibers are all about the same regards lethality in self defense shootings with more than 50% of people being shot surviving single hits to the chest. I know a man that I hunt with that survived 4 shots with a 357 magnum, the shooter shot low 3 times into his pelvis and stomach and one blew his thumb off, one missed and he used the last one on himself. Now replace that with a 223, 30-06, or 12 gunge with buckshot and the odds are slim to none. Finally take something like a glock 34 with 124 grain HP ammunition, someone will shoot you two to three times with that while many are recovering from a single recoil from a 1911 45ACP. Just sayin is all.


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