Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors 22 HP Reloading Question?

I don't have any new information or insight to contribute to this thread and at the risk of getting it off topic:

I would give my eye teeth to shoot a real MP44...

Thanks!!

Had excellent results with the 70 gr Speer .224 semi-point and 25 gr 4198. Not fast but 1" at 100.

before Sierra bullets quit making and selling .227 caliber bullets for a 22 HP cartridge i purchased 500 bullets so i am set for a long time now. i don`t shoot my Savage 99 22 H.P. take down much anymore

I wasn't aware that Sierra ever made .228 bullets.

i was wrong the bullets are Hornady with bullet .227 dia.

Any suggestions on a powder and amount to try, to push a 45gr sp around 2000fps?

You have .228 diameter 45's? Assuming .224" bullets, I would try 8 grains Unique to start and not go higher than 12 grains. The reason for using a fast powder like that would be to smack the undersize bullet sharply on its butt to bump it up to full groove diameter as quickly as possible, to lessen gas cutting past the bullet which will hasten throat erosion. Savage ain't making those barrels anymore. The slowest powders I would try for making loads of 2000fps with a .224 bullet would be 4198, Reloader-7, or something of that ilk. You would have to consult an old loading manual for a good idea of such starting loads. (If the manual doesn't have .22HP data, .219 Zipper data is a pretty safe bet for starting points.)

4895 is always a good choice for concocting mid-range loads as even Hodgdon considers it perfectly safe down to 60% of max loads. But, I don't think it delivers that smart quick spanking to the base of the bullet.

Of course, if you lucked into some 45 grain Sisk .228's, your possibilities are a little more varied. With them I would go straight to the Reloader-7 or 4198.

Thinking some more about it, I would be remiss if I didn't tout the use of cast bullets for mid-range (lower velocity) shooting in the .22HP (or anything else for that matter). At the 2000fps level they'll perform every bit as well as a jacketed bullet, cost a lot less, and save the throats of our beloved 100 year old Savages. Don't have the means/inclination/time to cast any? Contact Dan the Bullet Man on Gunbroker- he can fix you up with a variety of good cast .228 bullets.

I haven't ordered them yet but Buffalo Arms has the .228 45gr SP, I was going to wait until I could find a load to try before ordering. Unique and the same amount for the .228 45gr?

What weight cast from Dan the bullet man do you recommend and loading?

Thanks!!!

As i mentioned earlier the 65gr cast bullets from Dan shoot excellent. Loaded with 7gr of Unique. 20 rounds in a half dollar size group at 50yrds. Never chronoed though.

Joe

Picture from triple deuce

I didn't see any listed on GB so I contacted The Bull Shop.

BTW, nice shooting!

Thanks. You wont be disappointed.

Joe

Hey,
Great topic. My load is 70gr. Hornady SP with 20.5gr. Reloader#7 for mid velocity, or just lest than factory specs. I haven’t clocked it but suspect 2600fps.
I am learning from the talk here as I had not considered shooting .224 diameter bullets, let alone 45gr. Bullets.
I love casting and shooting alloy bullets and have been successful with 218Bee hard cast gas checks bullets lubed with alox/beeswax to over 2200fps for accuracy. I have also found that these bullets require a near perfect bore and seating depth to rifling to avoid bbl. leading and accuracy loss.
While I reserve high velocity for my modern 22cal. Rifles, I really want to hear what is being done with these light weight undersized bullets in the older Savage High Power rifles, as this is new to me.

Tomygun1

Easy to do, but the standard .22HP sizing die might well hinder the exercise. You might want to remove the decapping pin/expander ball and simply rely on the sized neck diameter provided by the "naked" die body. (That also entails separate decapping.) At the very least a .224 expander ball needs to be substituted for the .228 expander ball. Otherwise the .224 bullet will be a loose fit in the case neck. I tried to load .224's in brass sized normally in my Redding die and the bullet could be pushed right through the neck with thumb pressure.

That's all based on the proposition that shooting .224's in a HP is a good thing. Several schools of thought. My thought is I don't want all that hot gas blowing past the bullet and hastening throat erosion. It all depends on how much .22HP you shoot. A lot of .224 use can't help but injure 100 year old barrels that Savage doesn't make anymore. Just my opinion, based on my historic shooting of an obscene amount of .22HP. Probably not an issue for the "once a year" kind of shooter.

The two critical dimensions for cast bullets in the HP (and any other rifle for that matter) are diameter and length. Length for obvious stabilization needs in a given rate of twist (for the old Savage 1-12" ROT bullet length of .750" is the magic number, weight has nothing to do with it). Diameter is a little trickier. The old protocol of using the groove diameter of a barrel to determine cast bullet diameter has been disproved time and again over the last 40 years. What is far more important is sizing to throat diameter. In my three .22HP tubes, throat diameters are all over the map- two at .229 and one at .230. Shooting .228 diameter cast bullets gives "ok" accuracy- an inch or so at 50 yards (much like Joe's target shown above). Sizing them to fit the throats shrinks group size by nearly a half. (That means not sizing them and merely lubing them in a couple instances, as-cast as it were.) To sum up: ignore groove diameter, but determine throat diameter.

Another critical aspect of cast bullets is hardness. I know this is counter intuitive but relatively soft (bhn10-12) alloys give better accuracy in all the .22's I shoot, not just .22HP, at velocities a little past the 2000fps mark- with zero leading. Again it all boils down to fitting the bullet to the throat- you don't want hot gasses blasting past the bullet and melting lead off their sides before they have a chance to get moving well and expanding to seal the bore.

As for seating depth, the rifle tells me what it likes. One gun wants its bullets jammed into the leade, others want their bullets to get a little bit of a running start. Probably has something to do with the condition of the leades and throats (and the leade angles as cut when the barrel was made) but I don't have a borescope to confirm or deny. Condition of bore is important, but not critical within bounds. Fortunately all my HP tubes have pristine bores so it's a non-issue for me, but anecdotally I have a 5.6x35R kiplauf with what I would call 60-70% bore that shoots cast with astonishing accuracy (ask Joe Martin, he's shot it).

Buffalo arms also make 55 and 60gr .228 bullets, I use the 55gr in my Brno combo gun and they are very accurate,

For a .228" 45gr sp, what powder would you think the best bet, REL-7 or the 4198? What charge would you start with? I have read if you use too little it can cause high pressure and I do not have a clue of a safe starting load for the .228" 45gr sp.

Sorry for all the questions, I just want a couple of good loads and not have a small fortune in powder and gear when I do not plan on loading a lot and as of now only for the 22HP.

RL-7 and 4198 are the historic champions for loads of that nature in medium sized cases- but your gonna get over 2000fps on the low end. I would try 20 grains RL-7 and go from there, but it would undoubtedly put you well over the 2000fps threshold. Not much data exists for light bullets in the HP with modern powders. I just now consulted my old copy of Sharpe's handloading tome and all the 45 grain loads he lists are for Lightning, Hi-Vel #2 and 3 and Sharpshooter. He does list a load of 10gr. 2400 for 2000fps. Landis says nothing at all about light loads in the HP. Old Lyman manuals have a few listings- one in front of me lists 17.4 grains 4895 for 2000 fps, but with a 60 grain bullet, and 13 grains 4227 for 1950fps but with a 60 grain bullet also.

Too darn bad SR-4759 was discontinued. All of my mid-range and low-vel loads with the HP were concocted with that powder and Unique. (I can continue to do so because I hoarded enough 4759 to easily get me through my Golden years.)

All the loads for the .219 Zipper (nigh ballistic twin to the HP) in my old manuals and reference books start at 2500fps minimum, for the 45 grain, and go up to well over 3000fps, and do it with 3031, 4895, 4320, etc.

Whatever you do, I would strongly suggest doing your load development with a chronograph and tread lightly. For example if 20 grains RL-7 gives you 2400-2500 fps with a 70 grainer you know you're ok but without much room to go higher. Because of the much lighter weight of the 45 grain bullet you're determined to use such a charge would surely be ok then. Follow?

Can you access QuickLoads for a case capacity/powder charge/bullet weight comparison?

You're entering uncharted territory, and while the risks are minimal IMO, they do exist. Why not stick with 60-70 grain bullets to start with, for which lots of data exists? In all honesty I would get a can of Unique which I know for a fact is a-ok for loads in the mid-teens to 2000fps with all bullet weights both jacketed and cast.

Thinking some more, and going back and re-reading the earlier posts, I get the impression that Mr. MP44 is new to handloading. Am I correct? If so, I would strongly advise him to stick with powder and bullet combos that are known to be safe, and get his feet wet with them before venturing into the world of "seat-of-the-pants" loading.