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I was curious what everyone was using to provide a water resistant wood finish. What are the pros and cons to a polyurethane vs a varnish? What are some of the products are you using?
Thank you in advance!
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I think it's mostly about regular maintenance. I tipped over in a canoe with walnut and blue 22 (rhyme intended). The wood just had linseed and beeswax on the stock, gun oil on the metal, and nikon monarch mounted. Dry rags and sunshine had me back on the hunt inside the hour. More linseed and gun oil when I got home, and the rig is as good a ever 10 years on,...stick with regular cleaning and oiling you will never need to worry about rain and snow on your gun


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Originally Posted by JeffG
I think it's mostly about regular maintenance. I tipped over in a canoe with walnut and blue 22 (rhyme intended). The wood just had linseed and beeswax on the stock, gun oil on the metal, and nikon monarch mounted. Dry rags and sunshine had me back on the hunt inside the hour. More linseed and gun oil when I got home, and the rig is as good a ever 10 years on,...stick with regular cleaning and oiling you will never need to worry about rain and snow on your gun


Linseed oil and beeswax ?

Oh, the horror !!!


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No. I am asking about refinishing a stock with something water resistant.

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Anything with oil is not going to be waterproof. Spar varnish is not bad. If mixed with oil as you go it will look better, be easier to repair, shed water reasonably well, and be pretty fool-proof.


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The only waterproof finishes normally used on wood are the polyurethanes and epoxies. BLO is poor and tung oil is only a little better. The various oil-varnish mixes are in between. Truoil is a good example. Minwax, Watco, etc. all make poly wiping finishes that are good if you leave a film on the surface.


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Anyone here use Varnish over West System epoxy as described at this link? Epoxyworks - Varnish Over Epoxy

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Has anyone ever tried CPES epoxy on a rifle stock? It is a super thin epoxy sealer used for boats. I used it once on a bass boat rebuild and it soaked into the wood about as good as any thinned finish. I gave the left over epoxy to my brother for one of his boat projects, but I think that would make a great sealer, pore filler for a stock. Would an oil finish work over epoxy?

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Originally Posted by Gringo Loco
Anyone here use Varnish over West System epoxy as described at this link? Epoxyworks - Varnish Over Epoxy

I believe my father was the first to write about epoxy stock finishing with oil on top. That was in the early '70s and we were doing it in the '60s. I have done a lotvof them and it is my preferred method.


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Originally Posted by scoony
Has anyone ever tried CPES epoxy on a rifle stock? It is a super thin epoxy sealer used for boats. I used it once on a bass boat rebuild and it soaked into the wood about as good as any thinned finish. I gave the left over epoxy to my brother for one of his boat projects, but I think that would make a great sealer, pore filler for a stock. Would an oil finish work over epoxy?


I have and found it a real messy way to go with problems due to the short pot life. Very slow curing, 24-48 hour, epoxies are the best combination of workability and toughness in service.

Using an oil finish on top gives you a super easily repaired finish that looks just like oil.

Last edited by Sitka deer; 06/30/19. Reason: Frigging autocorrect!

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Yeah, we did that trick a lot when doing the brightwork on boats we built and refurbed. West System 207 as I recall (but don't quote me on the number). Worked fine, right up until we got a couple boats back 3-4 years later for brightwork rehab. (Nothing will withstand the harsh salt environment perfectly forever and ever, 3-4 years is normal for a boat to need re-varnishing. Some people do it every year.) What happened was the epoxy underlayment made stripping back to bare wood a lot harder. I don't personally know anybody around town here who still uses epoxy as a base coat, but I'm sure there are those who do.

As tough and impermeable as epoxy is, it has like zero UV resistance. That's why you gotta put a bunch of good varnish over top of it. (By good, I'm talking stuff with a high solids content. The best IMO is Epifane's but it's OMG expensive.)

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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Yeah, we did that trick a lot when doing the brightwork on boats we built and refurbed. West System 207 as I recall (but don't quote me on the number). Worked fine, right up until we got a couple boats back 3-4 years later for brightwork rehab. (Nothing will withstand the harsh salt environment perfectly forever and ever, 3-4 years is normal for a boat to need re-varnishing. Some people do it every year.) What happened was the epoxy underlayment made stripping back to bare wood a lot harder. I don't personally know anybody around town here who still uses epoxy as a base coat, but I'm sure there are those who do.

As tough and impermeable as epoxy is, it has like zero UV resistance. That's why you gotta put a bunch of good varnish over top of it. (By good, I'm talking stuff with a high solids content. The best IMO is Epifane's but it's OMG expensive.)

And epoxy over wood canoes are great right up to the failure point... then they are miserable to deal with.


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Except for extreme use I think the Spar Varnish or a Poly under oil is sufficient for most purposes and a lot easier to deal with than Epoxy. Epoxy can yellow badly and "sugar" up and look white after it ages. Any of the better varnishes for boat bright work can be a good choice. SeaFin Teak Oil is a good one, Epifames is very good, and I have had good results with Cetol. The first two can be mixed with oil for subsequent coats, I don't think Cetol is compatible with oil.

You can just use it as filler by sanding back to bare wood or for more protection leave the last light coat of sealer on the wood surface.


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Originally Posted by Tejano
Epoxy can yellow badly and "sugar" up and look white after it ages. Any of the better varnishes for boat bright work can be a good choice. SeaFin Teak Oil is a good one, Epifames is very good, and I have had good results with Cetol. The first two can be mixed with oil for subsequent coats, I don't think Cetol is compatible with oil.



That's what I was talking about when I spoke of epoxy's vulnerability to UV light, and recommended a good varnish be applied over it.

In the marine industry around here, Cetol is regarded as a joke. It's what the lazy boat owners apply to their brightwork when they don't have the stomach for doing a proper varnish job.

Teak oil puts us squarely back into the debate over the eficacy of oil finishes in general. It's been hashed to death, and everyone has firm ideas regarding same.

Ignore the protocols developed by the marine industry at your peril when considering finishes for treasured wooden sporting objects that may well get exposed to extreme environments. What's good sauce for the goose is good sauce for the gander.


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So what are some good brands for poly and varnish?

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Yes I agree and may have mixed up Cetol with another product, plain old Helmsman's may have worked better, but no warts on Epiphanes and I would use it on a boat or a gun stock as a filler only at least.

But if you are not sure what to get many have worked out the formulas already. Custom Classic, Pilkington Pro Stock, Velvet Oil, Permalyn, and even Tru Oil or Linspeed will do a creditable job. I look for ones that have polyurethane and alkyd varnish both. The key to making it look like an oil finish is to apply oil first usually with alkanet root stain. Different types of wood will want one to four coats, careful with very open grain wood as it can go almost black. Then use the varnish type finish heavily as a filler and then take it back to bare wood with the pores filled. Then as Art and others have posted use a mix of the varnish and oil of your choice to go over this wiping most of it of. Tung oil has very slightly better water protection and to this I add turpentine and both Cobalt and Japan Dryer. Lead is even better but not worth the hazards. Turpentine polymerizes with the oil and mineral spirits do not. A difference of a couple of molecules but enough for me to use the Terp.

If I am going over a "bowling " alley" finish I scuff it up with 320 grit and add shellac to the mix which sticks to anything. I rub down after every coat or every other one.

Once you reach the desired finish level the key to me is to wait a couple of months and then rub it out with Rotten Stone (volcanic ash) or diatomaceous earth, about a 3 micron exoskeleton remnant from the pre-cambrian era.


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A couple minor differences of opinion/technique... I am almost always happy with the wood color as it is and seldom add any color. For woods like maple or myrtle the yellowing may be a problem. Water-based acrylic finishes (like Diamondthane) will give a very good non-yellowing finish which can be top-coated with oil which greatly reduces the yellowing simply because there is less oil in the finish.

Using oil first is backward because it does not fill as well as spar varnish. The oil finish atop the varnish is key to making it look like an oil finish. Thinning a small container with oil as it is used up is a simple way to get there.

Tung oil is exactly like linseed oil. In use they are completely interchangeable and are used that way. The primary difference is the fact many are allergic to tung and it is never a food-grade oil. The best linseed oil is usually food grade. That changes the pricing structure and the way the two oils are used in industry. Grade for grade they are alike.


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Originally Posted by smallfry
So what are some good brands for poly and varnish?

I agree with Tejano on the oil brands he listed, but usually use straight oil from a paint store. Helmsman Spar Varnish is what I usually pick for a varnish under oil finish. But would not hesitate to use another if it was not available.


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Nice. Looks like I have some experimenting to do. Essentially put the varnish or poly on and take it back before applying an oil finish? Do you think the poly or varnish to let the stock soak up coats first or? I appreciate it.

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I apply it heavily, allow it to dry for 10-15 minutes and then wipe dry. Get all the finish off that you can. Allow the coat to dry and repeat. Generally no sanding is required at all.

After the pores are almost full I add oil to the spar varnish and repeat the coats until it is filled and looking the way it should. Add oil as needed or wanted.


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