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Can't help on the elk or sheep, but the deer shot with a .243 and .257 were apparently just as dead as ones killed with bigger cartridges, and died just as fast. If you're going light in weight on the rifle, definitely go light on the round to spare your old bones, nothing over a 6.5 or maybe a 7-08 with lighter bullets. I plan to carry my 6mm CM again this year, but with 115gr Bergers instead of the 95 TTSXs I toted last year. Only lightweight rifle for a heavier round I've shot recently was a Kimber Hunter 6.5, and it had noticeably more recoil than my lighter Barrett.


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After a year and a half of my shoulder replacement,recoil is big problem for me. I do own a a .243 but it is custom mauser and about 9 pounds.

I don't think one is offered in a muzzle loader which is half my elk hunting

I know a lot of people shun the muzzle brakes, but the one on my .06 cuts the recoil of a 180 gr partition to a tad above a .243.

Like anything else involved with hunting or life, you compromise to be able to continue with what you want to do.


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Yep. My wife eventually had a brake installed on her custom, lightweight .308 Winchester, not because of shoulder problems but recoil headaches. Even with the brake, however, we had to go to a slightly reduced handload with 130-grain Barnes TTSX's.


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Started my hunting life with a 222. Moved 'up' to the 243 and probably took 150 whitetails with it. Still have 2 in the safe that come out to play from time to time. Left shoulder is heading for replacement someday. Right shoulder doesn't like the recoil so, the 300 WM and 338WM and the 340 Wby all went down the road.
My elk rifle is the 264 WM and a 6.5x55. Put the bullet in the right place and you'll be hauling elk meat out.


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Just checking in , many folks in my position. I have also killed elk and moose with my model 700, 25/06. The 24" barrel is a deterrent now.
It is off the list. The .270's are not off but from what I experience with the mono's , Swift bullet products, they don't fracture much and make a hole in the vitals. The .243, 6mm now has the confidence to speak for themselves in hunting camp.
I feel the rules have changed and hunters with modern ammo/ especially the great new bullets are not undergunned. Yet, the Creedmoor rounds continue to bounce of all Game animals- a modern phenomena, even a close range.
There you go, it is clear as mud.Cheers

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If you have a brake, you cannot forget ear protection. I walked up on a group of pigs on the way back to camp. I had a 300 Win mag with a brake, I hit a pig on the run, but my right ear rang for a week.

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Originally Posted by hanco
If you have a brake, you cannot forget ear protection. I walked up on a group of pigs on the way back to camp. I had a 300 Win mag with a brake, I hit a pig on the run, but my right ear rang for a week.


Yep,I have a set of electronic ones I wear hunting. At the range I wear plugs and muffs and I am always careful to set up away from other club members and let them know I am shooting with a brake.


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I killed a big Scimitar Horned oryx with an 85gr Barnes xbt going 2900fps from a little long barreled 6x47 ( 222 Magnum necked up to 6mm) I had just had a neck fusion. Base of the neck at 184yds, complete penetration. A 243 can push it a tad faster! smile

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Age old dilemma.
We want a flat shooting, super accurate, non-kicking, heavy hitter that weights as much as a plastic stocked red rider and fires ammo that is cheap and available at every five and dime,

But I believe we all have to make compromises on the ideal rifle.
Give up some lightness or some power, or submit to more noise, or some combo of these.

Nothing can get around the laws of physics.

I also dislike muzzle breaks, but if I wanted an elk rifle that I felt 100% confident in, that only weighed around 6.75 pounds of less, I would go with a good break and carry ear plugs around my neck on a string when I hunted. In some cases you'll have time to put them in your ears, and in the cases where the elk is close you can fire quickly before it gets away and one shot at a large close target is not likely to bother you all that much.

Or give up on the feather weight idea and go with an auto loader in a 6.5 or 7-08 caliber, based on a short action. Such a rifle can be field ready, loaded and scoped at about 8.5 to 9 pounds and doesn't kick bad at all.

Or go with a very light caliber with solid expanding bullets (Barnes or Hornady GMX) and be willing to pass on many shots that you can't place perfectly.

I feel for ya, but I believe that all we do in our selections of guns and ammo is a compromise at one level or another. I am 64 now and I still carry 9 to 10 pound rifles in the mountains and do not feel burdened by them, but I can't say I'll feel that way in the coming 10-20 years.


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I am finding that my Ruger #1 in 270 sits at home a lot now, and the Model 70 FWT in 6.5X55 is the go to rifle as I get older (looking at 73 in Feb). Total confidence in the 140 gr partition.

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My dad transitioned out of his .30-06 and into a 7mm-08 while in his mid-70’s. He killed his biggest bull ever at age 77 in 2015.





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I have a 243 barrel for my savage but will likely download my 30-06 to 300 Savage level and use 130 gr copper before switching to 243

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Ultra light rifle

Bad shoulders

Big Game

Hate muzzle breaks

Hard Head

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Animals are not hard to kill when you put a shot where it belongs

We killed big deer in Kansas and Nebraska with 6 Remington and 243's with 95g partitions and 100g Hornady interlock, 350 yards was no big deal.

I hunted cow elk off of mules in Az with 243 and 100g Partitions, shots were not long, and they flopped.

Your shoulder surgeon will advise you what to do, if you don't listen, they you are in for a shoulder replacement with some loss of movement. So, being a hard head gets you 3-4 months of Physical Therapy after the shoulder replacement with 9-12 months of recovery.

I started using Gentry muzzle breaks that throws the sound 15* or so forward, and wearing electronic ear muffs. I hear 3x to 5x times better than the average human, and this adds an entirely new hunting experience.

Adapt and Improvise

I have a good reason to not trust copper bullets, partitions are like the warmth of the morning Sun!

Last edited by keith; 07/07/19.
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Another option (and excuse to buy a new rifle) is the 25-06. A good bit more oomph than a .243 and not that much more recoil in a hunting weight rifle.

You could still tape over the end of the barrel and carry 35 Whelen on your belt. I'm going to try that this fall. Great idea by whom ever it was suggested it.

RJ


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After reading thru this thread several times I thought I'd join in and see what ya'll suggest for my similar/ but not exactly the same shoulder situation.

13 years ago at age 62 I had a huge 22oz non malignant tumor removed from underneath my right ear, with all 5 nerve trunks going into the right shouder either cut or torn. Long story short after that surgery I was not able to extend my arm or raise my elbow above my shouder. Spent 18 months of "rehab" and way too many opioids and eventually got to where I could pull my zipper up and brush my teeth with my right hand. Rejoined most daily activities over the years but with no overhead reach or strength and extreme pain possible whenever my elbow went above my shoulder.

Began to hunt again 10 years ago, but slowly the shoulder's reach and strength has begun to errode again. starting 3 years ago, and now I flinch big time with a Past Pad at the range, and again even on a game shot with a normally loaded 9lb+ 270 M70 Sporter...and have not shot more than a few rounds off the bench with anything much sincethen even with a T3 Swede SL, a USRAC M70 Fwt 7x57 because of pain and flinching. Bought a Wby VG 308 for the weight and a Wby VG SS 7Rmg even planned to put a muzzle brake on the Big 7 and planned to download for both of them on, but have not shot either of them.
.
Had a MRI 3 weeks ago that confirmed the lack of need for surgery for a shoulder seperation or torn rotator cuff repair job HOORAY and only confimed the presence of "bone spurs" ....Last week I got a steroid shot of 3 short/medium/long acting steriods and got some releif that comes and goes but was finally able to fully raise my hand to full overhead exstension for the 1st time in 13 years....and without pain. OTOH Doc sez I can only get these steriod shots every 4 months, but can get them for the rest of my life if need be.

I want to start hunting typical Texas critters again as at 75 I've still got a few years left in me ...so do I dump the deer rifles I have or just download them ? Or do like my attorney did after a car wreck wrecked his shoulder, when he went from a 270 and into a 22-250 and finally into a crossbow ...or do I just sell everything I;ve got and get into the smaller deer/hog capable calibers ?
Ron


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Glad (kinda) to see I'm not alone, although only 52 both my rotator cuff are torn and on my right shoulder (shooting one) it's been separated for 9 years after a mountain biking accident and now the ball is falling out of the socket.
I still regularly shoot my 280 AI and .270 without much of pain and I limit my practice with the 8 lbs. 300 H&H, but I must say my newly built 8 lbs. 6.5CM has been a joy. I shot 75 rounds last weekend and feel no ill affects at all.
Someday I'll man up and have the operation(s) but for a self employee guy who likes to hunt there just isn't a good time.

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Originally Posted by comerade
Yeah, I am in my 60's now and forced to address the constant ache of altered , overused shoulders.
Otherwise , I am in good shape and cannot stand a muzzle brake and carry lightweight equipment.
Yup, upgraded recoil pads, use a shooting vest on the bench and won't use a leadsled.
I love the view from the top of the steepest mountain .
I am debating on taking the little .243 for elk, mule deer and Bighorns this year. I have killed elk with it before and I feel with the best monolithic bullets these days it is adequate. Bullets these days have changed the rules, imo.
350 yards is far enough and nothing much stops a solid copper bullet.
Anyways, like politics and religion it should draw a variety of strong opinions.What is yours?


Why not?

You can put a good brake on your favorite rifle and sit behind it all day in a lead sled. Then take all that stuff off and go hunting and take that one shot.

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I had an MRI a couple of weeks ago. It seems my rotator cuff and bicep tendon in my right shoulder are torn. I had surgery on the shoulder 7 years ago and my orthopedic surgeon has referred me to a specialist whom I will see in 2 weeks. At 74 I do not know how many years I have left in me for quality hunting. I did manage to get a cow Rosy elk last year with my 300 WSM so I still have meat in the freezer. I have broken out the 243 and 270 Sako's and 7/08 Styer to practice with just in case I get drawn for elk next year. It is good to know the 243 will work on elk. It just might become my go to rifle for the limited time I have left to chase elk.

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140 grains is a credible bullet weight for game up through elk with good bullets. 2700 fps MV for said 140 gr bullet doesn’t generate a lot of recoil even launched from a light rifle. Making that 140 gr bullet 6.5mm gets great SD and BC so penetration and external ballistics are great even at a pedestrian 2700 fps MV. It may sound like bandwagon fandom, but there is a LOT to recommend a 6.5 Creedmoor, .260, or 6.5x55 as a light-kicking hunting rifle.

Last edited by ExpatFromOK; 07/07/19.

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Originally Posted by verhoositz
After reading thru this thread several times I thought I'd join in and see what ya'll suggest for my similar/ but not exactly the same shoulder situation.

13 years ago at age 62 I had a huge 22oz non malignant tumor removed from underneath my right ear, with all 5 nerve trunks going into the right shouder either cut or torn. Long story short after that surgery I was not able to extend my arm or raise my elbow above my shouder. Spent 18 months of "rehab" and way too many opioids and eventually got to where I could pull my zipper up and brush my teeth with my right hand. Rejoined most daily activities over the years but with no overhead reach or strength and extreme pain possible whenever my elbow went above my shoulder.

Began to hunt again 10 years ago, but slowly the shoulder's reach and strength has begun to errode again. starting 3 years ago, and now I flinch big time with a Past Pad at the range, and again even on a game shot with a normally loaded 9lb+ 270 M70 Sporter...and have not shot more than a few rounds off the bench with anything much sincethen even with a T3 Swede SL, a USRAC M70 Fwt 7x57 because of pain and flinching. Bought a Wby VG 308 for the weight and a Wby VG SS 7Rmg even planned to put a muzzle brake on the Big 7 and planned to download for both of them on, but have not shot either of them.
.
Had a MRI 3 weeks ago that confirmed the lack of need for surgery for a shoulder seperation or torn rotator cuff repair job HOORAY and only confimed the presence of "bone spurs" ....Last week I got a steroid shot of 3 short/medium/long acting steriods and got some releif that comes and goes but was finally able to fully raise my hand to full overhead exstension for the 1st time in 13 years....and without pain. OTOH Doc sez I can only get these steriod shots every 4 months, but can get them for the rest of my life if need be.

I want to start hunting typical Texas critters again as at 75 I've still got a few years left in me ...so do I dump the deer rifles I have or just download them ? Or do like my attorney did after a car wreck wrecked his shoulder, when he went from a 270 and into a 22-250 and finally into a crossbow ...or do I just sell everything I;ve got and get into the smaller deer/hog capable calibers ?
Ron

Sorry to hear that verhoositz. Do you think the steroid shots provide enough relief to handle some recoil? I would think downloading for a heavier rifle with lighter bullets is a viable option to at least try and find out how it works for you. Maybe mono bullets are the way to go for lighter bullet weights.

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