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Joined: Dec 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
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Anyone that expected they were going to admit there are problems with their products is delusional. That's simply not how one survives in the corporate world.
Way back when in the days of Quality programs, the mantra was, "Quality means meeting customer expectations, not goodness". IOW, as long as the customer thinks he's getting his money's worth, it's a quality product. As long as enough people keep buying Leupold stuff based on reputation and tradition, there's no incentive for them to make any changes. As has been said repeatedly here, they know all about the stuff they sell, and are sticking to the program. Maybe there's a bunch of secret scurrying around in their engineering department working on the problems with their stuff, but I kinda doubt it, and ain't taking any expensive chances when there's plenty of other good products to choose from.
Thanks to Doug and all those who endured the presentation and produced the Cliff Notes version for the rest of us.
I think you nailed it. Something I've been considering is the fact that Leupolds are very light in weight, and I suppose that could be because they're using very thin tubes. If that is so, then it could be that they're more sensitive to any ring misalignment causing erectors to bind. I read somewhere recently that someone was tightening rings on a rifle and noticed that as the ring screws were torqued, the rifle's action would flex. That would almost certainly not happen with a Leupold if I'm right about tube thickness.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
I was glad they myth busted all the exaggerated claims about it taking six trips to Leupold to get a scope fixed. “Generally, they’re fixed by the third time a scope is returned... It never takes six times.” That was very cringe-worthy. Good to know 3rd time is the charm. It usually takes Swaro one time to fix a issue at least on their Z3's
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
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This reminds me of Lee Iacocca's book about when he worked for Henry Ford. Henry drove a Lincoln to work every day and every day while he was in the office the mechanics took his Lincoln to the shop and went over it with a fine toothed comb. He couldn't understand why people were complaining about Ford quality, His Lincoln was just fine. Can you say "Clueless"?
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27,925 |
Anyone that expected they were going to admit there are problems with their products is delusional. That's simply not how one survives in the corporate world.
Way back when in the days of Quality programs, the mantra was, "Quality means meeting customer expectations, not goodness". IOW, as long as the customer thinks he's getting his money's worth, it's a quality product. As long as enough people keep buying Leupold stuff based on reputation and tradition, there's no incentive for them to make any changes. As has been said repeatedly here, they know all about the stuff they sell, and are sticking to the program. Maybe there's a bunch of secret scurrying around in their engineering department working on the problems with their stuff, but I kinda doubt it, and ain't taking any expensive chances when there's plenty of other good products to choose from.
Thanks to Doug and all those who endured the presentation and produced the Cliff Notes version for the rest of us.
I think you nailed it. Something I've been considering is the fact that Leupolds are very light in weight, and I suppose that could be because they're using very thin tubes. If that is so, then it could be that they're more sensitive to any ring misalignment causing erectors to bind. I read somewhere recently that someone was tightening rings on a rifle and noticed that as the ring screws were torqued, the rifle's action would flex. That would almost certainly not happen with a Leupold if I'm right about tube thickness. It must have been a ruger american rifle
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 29,383 |
I thought someone was kidding about the hamburger on their home page. WOW just WOW
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Joined: Nov 2013
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,744 |
Uh-oh, recipes. That's a bad sign. Next it'll be logo-ed Leupold "stuff" like coolers, coffee mugs, Leupold Apparel, and other distractions.
Maybe a nice line of cookware?
What fresh Hell is this?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
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Analyze away if you must, but it's over, been over for a while actually. I'm sticking to the Mauser forum from now on, firmly rooted in the past.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,594 |
I thought someone was kidding about the hamburger on their home page. WOW just WOW I don't know if that's a bad thing. After my last five Leupold scope experiences, I would rather have that burger any day. It is a nice looking burger.
The first great thing is to find yourself and for that you need solitude and contemplation. I can tell you deliverance will not come from the rushing noisy centers of civilization. It will come from the lonely places. Fridtjof Nansen
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,412 |
I just watched it again, as I was multitasking during the original airing. This time I took a few notes which are posted below. The technical discussion was nonsense.
Early on they show a slide labeled ‘Myth 5’ which appears to illustrate that a 0.4% deviation in adjustments at 100yrds. ensures 0% deviation in adjustments1000 yards????? I have no idea what this was about.
Regarding scopes that have been back 6, 7 times, Dane, who’s been with Leupold for three years stated, “l’ve never seen a scope come back six times and have a problem. Generally by the third time it’s in here, uh, we’re firing it, uh, we’re doing jumping jacks drills, uh, we’re doing box drills...”
A few quotes from Nick... “I don’t know exactly what ‘beefed up’ means” “I’m not an engineer, I’m just a marketing guy” “Are your take down screws in the stock nice and secure?” “We’re not accusing anyone of being wrong or anything like that.” “We’re not gonna produce a product that doesn’t work—doesn’t track.” “We’re gonna geek out on all the engineering stuff, all the stuff that’s over my head.” “If it goes on a rifle, it comes out of this factory (the one in the US)”
Thanks for posting this. I've seen enough to fully say screw them. However, the burger does look great!
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
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Where can we get a "Leupold" burger? looks good
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,817 |
The thing about the burger is it will eventually end up in the same place as Leupold's reputation around here.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,297 |
Anyone that expected they were going to admit there are problems with their products is delusional. That's simply not how one survives in the corporate world.
Way back when in the days of Quality programs, the mantra was, "Quality means meeting customer expectations, not goodness". IOW, as long as the customer thinks he's getting his money's worth, it's a quality product. As long as enough people keep buying Leupold stuff based on reputation and tradition, there's no incentive for them to make any changes. As has been said repeatedly here, they know all about the stuff they sell, and are sticking to the program. Maybe there's a bunch of secret scurrying around in their engineering department working on the problems with their stuff, but I kinda doubt it, and ain't taking any expensive chances when there's plenty of other good products to choose from.
Thanks to Doug and all those who endured the presentation and produced the Cliff Notes version for the rest of us.
I think you nailed it. Something I've been considering is the fact that Leupolds are very light in weight, and I suppose that could be because they're using very thin tubes. If that is so, then it could be that they're more sensitive to any ring misalignment causing erectors to bind. I read somewhere recently that someone was tightening rings on a rifle and noticed that as the ring screws were torqued, the rifle's action would flex. That would almost certainly not happen with a Leupold if I'm right about tube thickness. It must have been a ruger american rifle It was a CA Ridgeline 300 RUM. Had a slightly bent 6x SS and once everything was torqued down I had some binding on action opening. Replaced the scope with a new 6x SS and all is well. I agree, wouldn’t have seen it with the Leupold.
Semper Fi
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Joined: Aug 2006
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Where can we get a "Leupold" burger? looks good It is guaranteed to be good. Best burger guarantee in the business. Comes with a a little bottle of 'X-Tended Flavor' sauce. No one has sent one back to the kitchen more than three times before they got it right! No one!!
The first great thing is to find yourself and for that you need solitude and contemplation. I can tell you deliverance will not come from the rushing noisy centers of civilization. It will come from the lonely places. Fridtjof Nansen
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27,925 |
Hey Doug,
Joking aside. I think the guys here wanted some answers from someone with more technical savvy.
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 224 |
I watched until they said you needed to be exactly 100yards from the adjustments to the target measured with a steel tape. So me being off a few inches from a 100 yards is causing 6-8 inches of shift left and right? Diagonally or whatever. Hmm the things you learn.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,817 |
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,487
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,487 |
Thanks for the refresher, Scotty. Kind of a different scenario in your anecdote, but I think it illustrates the point.
Maybe if Leupold would do a bit of testing with misaligned rings, they could issue more satisfactory responses and actually help customers. I'm not impressed with their responses to date. I don't feel like they're facing reality. All the lab testing is fine and dandy, but they're not addressing the issues effectively.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Posts: 1,581
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,581 |
I feel a bit sorry for Doug and Leupold on this one. This wasn't going to end well given the state of the strength of opinions on the subject. Doug comes across looking naive and probably damages his relationship with Leupold to boot. Leupold haters get to have a bigger field day and the poor sods who showed up from team Loopy probably damage their career's to some extent though I suspect it's also likely that 24 hour campfire members take their own reputation as "impossible to please" to a new height with management. Probably not the end game Doug was looking for.
I will continue to use Leupolds when I want a light weight option, but not without a bit of paranoia now, waiting for failures, that will likely not happen but waiting non the less.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,041 |
Doug,
Thanks for setting this up, but I missed it. I own Leupolds and my issues have been minor compared to others here. I have read through the forum here and it looks like Leupold has taken the "don't give a [bleep] stand". The customers wrong we are right, what a better way for a company to go out of business. Until Leupold addresses these issues, the problems will only continue, and I will say I have purchased my last Leupold until they acknowledge it and resolve the issue. Heck, I was about to buy a new scope in the next three weeks as well. Oh well, there are other companies that will be glad to take my money.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,560 |
I think the Leupold representatives in this presentation genuinely believe their products are beyond reproach and that their customer’s issues are merely predicated on baseless myths. They are in denial, and they are not gong to address problems that they believe don’t even exist. Too bad, but that is where they are... CP.
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