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I don't know for sure about anything that is based on faith

Unlike you...I don't know for sure about anything that is based on faith.

“You see, the religious people -- most of them -- really think this planet is an experiment. That's what their beliefs come down to.
Some god or other is always fixing and poking, messing around with tradesmen's wives, giving tablets on mountains, commanding you to mutilate your children, telling people what words they can say and what words they can't say, making people feel guilty about enjoying themselves, and like that.
Why can't the gods leave well enough alone? All this intervention speaks of incompetence.” Carl Sagan

Well that would leave the door open to accept those who do.

How does one know for sure that there is a God but that He is detached from one true faith, morals, and future judgment.

For once Bow was correct. Bow said , "Unlike you.....I dont know for sure about anything ......".

Truth.

Did you miss that or were you being kind to the blind, TS?

TS,

I agree with you. Some ideas can only be understood by some one who wants to understand.

“You can lead a horse to new ideas, but you can’t make him think”

Tragic.

Let's look at the alleged contradiction from a chronological perspective now:
The alleged contradiction (with it's inserted moral conclusions in that do not reference any moral code) is:



1. God created the world and Instituted a Sabbath day of rest and sanctification Gen.22,3

2. God through Moses gave laws regarding the observance of the Sabbath to uphold the creation institution.
a. The Sabbath was one of the Ten Commandments -- a mandatory day of rest and spiritual focus for every living thing in the nation: Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter,
your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is
in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. (Ex 20:8–11).

The whole congregation was gathered together and the law and the death penalty were stated: Moses assembled all the congregation of the people of Israel and said to them,
“These are the things that the LORD has commanded you to do.Six days work shall be done, but on the seventh day you shall have a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD.
Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. (Ex 35:1–2).


No fires were to be kindled in the home: You shall kindle no fire in all your dwelling places on the Sabbath day.” (Ex 35:3). This obviously means that you would not be
gathering sticks for a fire.

No cooking was allowed from evening to evening--the family had to prepare their food the day before, for everyone to be able to remember God's goodness and to enjoy the
creative fruits of the week before (as God did on the original Sabbath): On the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers each. And when all the leaders of the
congregation came and told Moses, 23 he said to them, “This is what the LORD has commanded: ‘Tomorrow is a day of solemn rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD; bake what you
will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over lay aside to be kept till the morning.’ ” 24 So they laid it aside till the morning, as Moses commanded them, and it did not
stink, and there were no worms in it. 25 Moses said, “Eat it today, for today is a Sabbath to the LORD; today you will not find it in the field. 26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the
seventh day, which is a Sabbath, there will be none.” (Ex 16:22–26).

No food gathering was allowed and no one was supposed to be outside their dwelling (for work): The LORD has given you the Sabbath; therefore on the sixth day he gives you
bread for two days. Remain each of you in his place; let no one go out of his place on the seventh day.” 30 So the people rested on the seventh day. (Ex 16:29–30).

3. The Sabbath observance is given as the central sign of the covenant relationship between God and Israel.
And the LORD said to Moses, 13 “You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you. (Ex 31:12–13; cf Ezek 20.12: Moreover, I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them. )

5. To violate this central mandate was a capital offense (stated over and over and over): You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death. 16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever. (Ex 31:14–16).


6. So the man who gathers sticks knows about the laws of the Sabbath and the death penalty related to breaking it. He deliberately broke it a way to flaunt each of the precepts regarding the Sabbath: a.) he went out when he was to remain inside, b.) he gathered sticks for a fire which he was not to make c.) he intended to cook a meal d.) he was showing blatant disregard for what everyone knew and practiced and what he knew was important to their faith and practice. d.) ultimately he was rejecting God and God's people and the established sign of their relationship.

Essentially it was an act of "Yea I know about all the laws and death penalty but I am going to do it any way cause you don't scare me none, so whatchya gonna do about it if I go ahead and break every Sabbath law."

7. Some Israelites had already broken the Sabbath institution before it became a law by going out to try to find manna on the Sabbath day. God had told them they would only get manna 6 days and their going out was not only disobedience but it wasn't trusting the fact that there would be no food to gather on Sabbath day. He reproved the people and punished no one. The people went back to the Sabbath observance. (Ex. 16:21-30.) The laws of the Sabbath were then enacted as noted above.

8. Additionally there was an overarching principle that if anyone did anything for the sole purpose of showing deliberate rejection and profanation of the laws of God they were to be put to death. This was treated as a mutinous and traitorous act.
But the person who does anything with a high hand, whether he is native or a sojourner, reviles the LORD, and that person shall be cut off from among his people. 31 Because he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken his commandment, that person shall be utterly cut off; his iniquity shall be on him.” (Numbers 15:30-31)

9. The congregation discovered the man and brought him to the Lord asking how he should be put to death. The community agreed that this man deserved death and they wanted to know from God how to do it. Stoning was chosen because it would be a corporate punishment and corporate example. (Numbers 15).

10. In looking back at all this history of Israel the Psalmist writes in Psalm 145 the following:

One generation shall praise thy works to another, and shall declare thy mighty acts.

And men shall speak of the might of thy terrible (or awesome) acts: and I will declare thy greatness.

The Lord is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works

So the Psalmist in recalling the goodness and mercy of God in the past is also including all His works and all His terrible/awesome acts. He is writing after the kingdom is established and prosperous and is looking back at their history. Rather than seeing the punishment of the man on the sabbath as a contradiction to God's mercy He saw it as a demonstration of God's mercy in giving them laws and order which helped to keep them a stable and God-fearing society and purging them from mutinous traitors.

To say that there is contradiction here is completely untenable because the author deliberately included this act in His praise of God's mercy and care for them--when He said his tender mercies are over all his works. In a situation like this God's mercy is extended to the corporate group by purging the high handed sinner who simply would find another opportunity to do it again and probably influence others the same. This should not be a hard to understand as a principle.

So, you do not understand.... or accept .... that the gathering of sticks is not the issue.

Can you not see that?

The transgression would be the deliberate and willful disobedience..... the issue of sticking the finger up.

I regard a certain amount of hardheadedness as a virtue, but.....Do you really not see that or are you just hard headed to the max?

No, it doesn't.

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

[b]36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

Not that it makes any difference, gathering sticks on a day of rest is hardly a capital offense in any sense of justice, and to have a the man executed, stoned to death in public, is neither just or merciful.

We are not an experiment because God needs no experiment. He knows the outcome of all. But are a part of God's plan that will soon be revealed in these last days.

When you say ''no understanding in place'' you actually mean your interpretation, an interpretation that ignores or dismisses
what the verses actually say by imposing your own meaning, your own rules.

That has been your ploy all along.

Based on what you write, you ignore anything that looks like a contradiction or a problem or order to maintain the preferred version,...

You're trying to impose your own conditions onto me as way of deflection from the actual issues.

So with this alleged contradiction shown to be another contrived attempt that fails we move on ...

Christians allow themselves such a wide range of ambiguous and subjective beliefs that they conveniently self-merit as their faith.
thus billions of self-professed christians whos opinions vary and conflict, some claim as evidence based, while others no evidence
is required for faith.

they cannot all be infused with the Holy Spirit and be receiving different understandings as they do.,
cause that would make God a poor communicator.

50,000 church organisations containing members that can all each have their personal own variation of spin.

[/quote]

Yes of course you can have personal morals without writing them down. But unless they are based on something that can be written down they are worthless. Additionally, if you are going to do a moral analysis from a moral benchmark you need to write them down so everyone can see the moral benchmark. My code is written, but no skeptics have provided their code by which they are making moral observations and judgments.

And yes as you note no skeptic here seems willing to provide a written moral code that they will stand by. That is a very evident sign of the weakness of their system and why moral discussions with them are often unproductive. I did not ask for belief in deity, I asked for a written moral code for reference.

I'm still waiting for that--lacking that there is no moral foundation in skepticism and no means by which a skeptic can consider themselves a moral person.

Do you have a moral code that you ascribe to? Is it written or can it be written? Does anyone else use it or is it just your personal opinion?

most days, i tend to hope you are correct.

[/quote]

Yes of course you can have personal morals without writing them down. But unless they are based on something that can be written down they are worthless. Additionally, if you are going to do a moral analysis from a moral benchmark you need to write them down so everyone can see the moral benchmark. My code is written, but no skeptics have provided their code by which they are making moral observations and judgments.

And yes as you note no skeptic here seems willing to provide a written moral code that they will stand by. That is a very evident sign of the weakness of their system and why moral discussions with them are often unproductive. I did not ask for belief in deity, I asked for a written moral code for reference.

I'm still waiting for that--lacking that there is no moral foundation in skepticism and no means by which a skeptic can consider themselves a moral person.

Do you have a moral code that you ascribe to? Is it written or can it be written? Does anyone else use it or is it just your personal opinion?