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One of my favorite gun writers (Bob Brister?)went to single shot pistols after a detached retina. Contender and or encores

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Originally Posted by comerade
Yeah, I am in my 60's now and forced to address the constant ache of altered , overused shoulders.
Otherwise , I am in good shape and cannot stand a muzzle brake and carry lightweight equipment.
Yup, upgraded recoil pads, use a shooting vest on the bench and won't use a leadsled.
I love the view from the top of the steepest mountain .
I am debating on taking the little .243 for elk, mule deer and Bighorns this year. I have killed elk with it before and I feel with the best monolithic bullets these days it is adequate. Bullets these days have changed the rules, imo.
350 yards is far enough and nothing much stops a solid copper bullet.
Anyways, like politics and religion it should draw a variety of strong opinions.What is yours?


I can empathize. I presume you are in elk country in SE BC by your post and are experienced. I know the new premium bullets have lifted the cartridges capabilities but I would add a few more qualifiers for myself; for example, I might arbitrarily set a limit for 250 yards on an animal I will be able to watch and am sure to retrieve.

Good luck!

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I shot a decent sized buck in the late 90's with a 7mm-08 and Partitions. The deer was right at 200 yards, the bullet knicked the left front leg and exited the right rear ham. That's probably a easy 3 feet of animal and bone. I'm a small caliber fan needless to say. Shot a doe through the shoulders at probably 50 yards and the exit wound was unreal.

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Showdog75,

Around the same time I shot a meat muley buck with a 140 Partition from a 7x57. Found him feeding in lodgepole timber at less than 50 yards, standing almost directly toward me. He evidently saw me raise the rifle, and picked his head up to stare. The bullet landed at that dimple at the base of the neck, and he dropped instantly, never moving.

I traced the bullet's path as well as possible during field-dressing, but lost it in the guts. Assumed it ended up somewhere in there, but a year or so later put a piece of one of his round steaks in my mouth and bit down on something I assumed was bone. Instead it was the expanded Partition, which either Eileen or I had sliced on either side of when butchering the deer.

Am always kind of amused when somebody recovers some bullet after it travels lengthwise through a big game animal, and claims it to be the Best Bullet Ever. In reality, lengthwise penetration is pretty common in my experience, partly because the "tube" of a big game animal's body is softest inside. Among the expanding bullets I've retrieved from the opposite end of a big game animal of some sort have been Barnes monolithics (of course); Hornady Interlocks and GMX's, Nosler AccuBonds, Ballistic Tips and Partitions, and probably some I've probably forgotten.


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mogwai,

While Bob Brister did have a detached retina, he recovered from it and continued to shoot with his right (dominant) eye.

You're probably thinking of Bob Milek, who essentially lost his sight in that eye.


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I too am having shoulder problems with torn labrum and now rotator cuff and will eventually need surgery. Even 270 win and 308 win in sporter weight rifles are not enjoyable to shoot so looking to downsize.. I most shoot paper/steel and only hunt whitetail deer, (would like to hunt hogs/pigs), with no intentions to anything larger. Wondering if I would be ok shooting my 223 rem for my needs or rebarrel my 308win to something smaller? I moving to Pennsylvania in few weeks and think they allow 22 cal for deer hunting?

I'm kinda of kicking myself for not getting my shoulder fixed years ago but my doctor's advice was to do physical therapy to strengthen my rotator cuff to compensate for the torn labrum, now my rotator cuff is going bad and keeps getting worse.

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Originally Posted by leomort
I too am having shoulder problems with torn labrum and now rotator cuff and will eventually need surgery. Even 270 win and 308 win in sporter weight rifles are not enjoyable to shoot so looking to downsize.. I most shoot paper/steel and only hunt whitetail deer, (would like to hunt hogs/pigs), with no intentions to anything larger. Wondering if I would be ok shooting my 223 rem for my needs or rebarrel my 308win to something smaller? I moving to Pennsylvania in few weeks and think they allow 22 cal for deer hunting?

I'm kinda of kicking myself for not getting my shoulder fixed years ago but my doctor's advice was to do physical therapy to strengthen my rotator cuff to compensate for the torn labrum, now my rotator cuff is going bad and keeps getting worse.


Yes we allow 22 caliber and your 223 will do fine for deer. What part of PA?

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@moosemike, I will be moving to the Lancaster, PA area. So my thoughts regarding options are: Use 223rem with "good deer" bullets, download 308win, or rebarrel my 308win to 6.5creedmoor or 243win.

Last edited by leomort; 07/15/19. Reason: spelling
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Originally Posted by leomort
@moosemike, I will be moving to the Lancaster, PA area. So my thoughts regarding options are: Use 223rem with "good deer" bullets, download 308win, or rebarrel my 308win to 6.5creedmoor or 243win.


Welcome! I'm one county to the north.

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when it comes to bad shoulders i was a pole climber/lineman for 31 years for a power company and yes my shoulders suck i have had both shoulders rebuilt the best that it can be without replacement parts that the surgeon says i need new man made shoulders.so i shoot a 257 Weatherby Mag. Ruger #1 for deer ,my rifle is heavy but that 257 Weatherby Mag. has plenty power and range to knock whitetail bucks or buck Mule deer down by the Canadian border in Minnesota or Montana and the recoil isn`t that bad.


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@moosemike, thanks!

@ pete53, I've heard about how one's recoil level get lower as we get older, heard about detached retina's from heavy kicker, and even MuleDeer's wife getting headaches from the recoil of her rifles but never in million years thought about my shoulder's going bad as possible limiting factor. I'm glad the OP brought this post up and hear about how other are dealing with it.

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Originally Posted by leomort
@moosemike, thanks!

@ pete53, I've heard about how one's recoil level get lower as we get older, heard about detached retina's from heavy kicker, and even MuleDeer's wife getting headaches from the recoil of her rifles but never in million years thought about my shoulder's going bad as possible limiting factor. I'm glad the OP brought this post up and hear about how other are dealing with it.


>i figure also when i reach the age of 70 maybe a little older ?, i will be using a 257 Roberts Cartridge in a rifle to reduce recoil even more to help my shoulders.but for now at 65 years of age i am stay`n with my 257 Weatherby Mag. i like the speed knockdown power of this old cartridge.


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I recall as a kid in the 70's many local hunters moved up to .338's , because they felt our 30/06's and .270's weren't adequate for bull elk.
Times have changed, and the heavy recoilers are gathering dust and hunters have had a rethink.
It is the amazing new bullets we use these days.
I think it has also questioned the kinetic energy as killing power mindset.
It has changed many of the rules.
The wound channel through vitals is a will work, if the tiny little bullet gets into and through and into the vitals. A ragged, deep wound channel, the mono's tend to penetrate deeply.

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Yep.

For the last dozen years Eileen's "big" rifle has a 6-3/4 pound custom .308 Winchester. At first she used it with 150-grain Nosler E-Tips at around 2850 fps, and it worked great both in North America and Africa. But then her recoil headaches started in, and eventually she got a muzzle brake, a small one made and fitted by Helena gunsmith John McLaughlin. Even then, we had to drop down to the 130-grain Tipped TSX at about the same velocity to keep recoil below her tolerance level. (Nosler does not make a 130-grain .30 E-Tip.)

In 2017 she killed the biggest cow elk either of us has ever taken, as big as many mature bulls, at around 250 yards with one of the "little" TTSX's. The elk was quartering toward us, so she aimed for the near shoulder. At the shot the cow staggered for around 20-25 yards, obviously not long for the world, before dropping.

The little bullet had broken the leg just above the big shoulder joint, then gone through the lungs before stopping under the hide in the middle of the ribs on the far side. It had lost all its petals, but so what? One thing I've noticed over the years is that petal-type bullets (whether Barnes X's, E-Tips, Hornady GMX's or the old Fail Safe) kill at least as quickly, if not faster, when they lose petals. In fact, I found one of the petals from this bullet on the inside of the hole through the far ribs. As long as they fully penetrate the vitals, what difference does it make?


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Originally Posted by comerade
I recall as a kid in the 70's many local hunters moved up to .338's , because they felt our 30/06's and .270's weren't adequate for bull elk.
Times have changed, and the heavy recoilers are gathering dust and hunters have had a rethink.
It is the amazing new bullets we use these days.
I think it has also questioned the kinetic energy as killing power mindset.
It has changed many of the rules.
The wound channel through vitals is a will work, if the tiny little bullet gets into and through and into the vitals. A ragged, deep wound channel, the mono's tend to penetrate deeply.


I remember all of those guys as well. My 338 was a 'deal' when I bought it. Shot it a few dozen times and even took a few elk with it. It's gone the way of the Dodo bird. The one 'heavy' kicker I sold that I'd like to have back is my Blaser. Should have just bought a different barrel.
My 30-06 weighs right at 7 lbs with scope and no pad. Thinking of getting a soft pad and doing like MD's Eileen did with her 308 and going to a lighter load.

I remember as my Dad got older he didn't enjoy shooting the 30-06 much. So, I gave him one of my 25-06's. He shot that rifle nearly as much as he did a 22 lr, he enjoyed it that much. (and he had a son that would reload for him as well)


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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by leomort
@moosemike, I will be moving to the Lancaster, PA area. So my thoughts regarding options are: Use 223rem with "good deer" bullets, download 308win, or rebarrel my 308win to 6.5creedmoor or 243win.


Welcome! I'm one county to the north.


An uncle of mine, in Dauphin and Northumberland County, did all his deer hunting for decades with a .22 Hornet. Vast majority were one shot kills.

I had a guide back in the 80's who lived in Laramie, WY, who for many years filled his personal mule deer and antelope tags with a Winchester M43 .22 Hornet, iron sights. Not a lick of finish left anywhere on that rifle- from years of riding uncased in the bed of his pickup.

When I run into guys here in our Maryland woods toting .300 Magnums (and bigger) I just smile, compliment them on their fine choice of whitetail deer rifles, and walk away thinking about Elmer Fudd for some reason. It seems that I run into at least one guy like that every year.

Last edited by gnoahhh; 07/16/19.

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John I do remember that Bob Milek lost the sight in one of his eyes,not sure if it was from a detached retina. I did not remember Bob Brister suffering a detached retina,but am sure you are correct.

I do however remember John Wooters writing about a detached retina in his right eye. He was working on a 416 wildcat at the time if I remember correctly. Wooters wrote about shooting a 243 left handed since his left shoulder was pretty sensitive to recoil. Before this,he had not been a fan of the 243 for deer as a general rule.

It does appear that retinal detachment is an occupational and recreational hazzard for rifle loonies,

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For those loonies who persist in shooting The Big Nasties, I presume.


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Lots of rounds will work for tender shoulders..

One that I've been playing with for a couple of years is the 25 Creedmoor.. Only one reason I prefer it to the 6.5 or 6 for hunting, that is the 100 Nosler Ballistic Tip.
This bullet in the .25 is an outstanding killer of whitetails and similar sized game.. I have killed countless coyotes and maybe a dozen deer in different locations with this set up.. I really good velocities and accuracy using Lapua brass.. Just another fine option ....

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Originally Posted by comerade
I recall as a kid in the 70's many local hunters moved up to .338's , because they felt our 30/06's and .270's weren't adequate for bull elk.
Times have changed, and the heavy recoilers are gathering dust and hunters have had a rethink.
It is the amazing new bullets we use these days.
I think it has also questioned the kinetic energy as killing power mindset.
It has changed many of the rules.
The wound channel through vitals is a will work, if the tiny little bullet gets into and through and into the vitals. A ragged, deep wound channel, the mono's tend to penetrate deeply.

Man...I should proof read before posting.

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