Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers All time 45/70 load

Curious what you all shoot in your 45/70's as your do all load? I load 405gr laser cast RNFP over 38gr of 3031. Shoots great in my guide gun and my sharps. I have a pile of 350gr Hornady FP I am thinking of loading a little hotter for my no1. Friend gave me some 535gr govt bullets that I hadn't had time to load for my sharps yet.

405gr Remington JSP, 46gr H4198, WLP primer, Starline brass, 2.55" COL, heavy Lee FCD crimp, ~1800fps from 18.5" barrel. That is my "all-around" load until my supply of Remington 405gr JSP runs out.

My all time favorite in a Marlin is the discontinued 300gr Nosler Partition over 59gr of VVN 133.
Second place is a Hornady 250gr Mono Flex in the shorter Hornady brass and VVN 133 right up to the base of the bullet.

Both are fast , accurate and tear a nice hole as they zip through elk.

Non traditional but they both work great.

Ive got a full box of 300gr partitions that ive never shot. Everyone seems to love them, don't know why they wont bring them back out..


Also the 405 gr remingtons are loved as well and they make limited runs of them. I guess since they are creedmores or some whizz bang magnum, they don't care

Why anyone loads a 45-70 past the 1870's standard load with a 405 grain bullet at 1350 FPS is beyound me. There isn't an animal in North America that could stop one of those bullets at that speed...

pretty much what I do. Works fine so far. And its plenty accurate. Ive hit 10" plates at 300 with my old sharps with barrel sights. Not a huge accomplishment for most but definitely one for me. Im just curious what others have used and swear by. I load my 44 mag and 45 colts similarly. Cast bullet 240 or 255 and mostly unique.

When I was loading for my Rolling Block 45-70s the 405gr cast bullets worked well and were appropriate for what I wanted to accomplish at those speeds but this is posted in the lever gun section so I posted my preferred loads for such.

Different ways to do the same thing.

Agree with this observation.

On the other hand, I do load a few 305 gr Lehigh Penetrators (brass solids) ~1700-1850fps with 43-44gr of RL-7, 40gr of 5744 or 43gr of H4198 when am feeling out toothed and clawed by illegal immigrant bears near the Canada/USA border.

With 420gr wfngc I like around 41-44gr RL-7...

WHY???? Because you can...

I do believe that this one would have worked well too!!!

Bottom 'mushroom' 500 grns trundling along at about 1250fps.. top 450grns.... Paper Patched of course.... recovered from a damp sand berm.

I have shot them at 1600fps mol, recoil was...um...er...stout????

Currently shooting 420 gr Garrett Hammerheads but looking for something different as those rounds are very expensive at $95 per box of 20.

Until you start handloading 'em...15-19 well-placed practice shots should be enough.

Shrapnel you gonna hate this......

I got plastic coated 405 grain bullets. I think I read the 305 grain recipie.........when working up the load.

Shot it two winters. I believe three different 1895 s Decided to chronograph it after I learned how to better use my chronograph.

Ended up a 2000 fps in the winter Ooooops.

She don't stick, and she groups.

I am askeered to shoot it in the summer.

I mostly been shooting it out of the 1895 P. must be the plastic coating that helps it out.

I don't have the load data with.

Keep wondering if I should pull em and start over.

It really made me appreciate big loops.

Marlin Cowboy, enough RL-7 to power 525gr Piledrivers to 1745 fps, hellacious load that's plenty safe and accurate.
Sharps, 76gr KIK 3F under a 530gr paper patch bullet for 1244 fps, rings 500 yard steel with boring regularity.

I read some of a book called 40 years with the 45/70......

He talks about straight wall cartridges they only need to move a far as the case is long to cut the pressure in half.

Claimed you can't pour enough IMR 3031 to hurt a Marlin? I can't remember the bullet weight.

H4198

CCI magnum primers

Barnes 250 TSX flat point.

3 shots in one ragged hole at 100 yards. Hammers deer

Since when is blowing a gun apart not hurting it?

Hard cast 405gr GC FP over 36gr of IMR-4198. Velocity is around 1500 fps. The hard cast slug does not expand much but will shoot through anything.

I shoot this load out of a Ruger No. 1S and a Browning 1886 SRC.

Well said shrapnel. Agreed.

For a few years it's been a lead 400 and 31.5 of 5744, just above Trapdoor pressure depending on your loading reference. I ended up with it because that happened to be the weight of 5744 thrown without adjusting the measure that day and it turned out to be a good load.

When I was younger and impervious to recoil I ran 400 gr Speers at 2000 f/s from a No.1, but honestly it wasn't much fun even then.

I’m running 325 gr. Hornady FTX at just over 2200 fps. Powder is H322. Don’t recall the charge just now but they shoot moa. 3.5 high at 100, on at 200, 19 low at 300. Drop is easily compensated with the pattern 21 sight.

IIRC, it was gunner500 who said 35 gr. 3031 or 35 gr.4198 with 405 hard cast bullets were great loads.

Those big bullets traveling at around 1,450 to 1,500 fps pack a wallop. Don't need to push them a 2K fps.

Ole Billy Dixon with his big 50 cal Sharps, shot a bigger bullet, but not faster. History has shown what that combo can do.

DF

33gr of H4198 or 13gr of Unique with 405gr makes a great plinker or *mild* hunting round.

48 grs. IMR 4198 and any 300 gr. bullet worked well for me since I bought one of the first Marlin 1895's in 1972. Shot well out of a Ruger Number 1 also. Good deer load at just under 2000 fps.

I read somewhere that 4198 was more position sensitive than 3031. Not sure, but that can become an issue in partially filled cases.

I remember that from cowboy action shooting, Titegroup was said to be the least position sensitive of the commonly used CAS powders.

Researching on line, I read some Ken Waters load info from years back. He liked 55 gr. H-4831 with 400 gr. bullets at around 1,400 fps. For sure you'd have a case full of powder with that one. Seems a bit slow for such a round, but ole Ken was pretty good at what he did. Cast bullet groups were very good with mag primers. May have to try that one.

DF

I've tried a bunch of different loads in the .45-70, but one of the best shooting is:

Starline brass
CCI 200 primer
H322, 47 grains
Beartooth bullets Piledriver Jr (advertised as 425 grains, actual weight 436 grains)

OAL @ 2.550"

Yields 1679 fps in my Guide gun, recoil is somewhat sporty off the bench, but accurate...and penetrates.

If a T-Rex escapes the Zoo, substitute the PJ jr for the Piledriver (525 grain, actual weight 540 grains), cut the charge back to 41 grains. Runs 1540 fps and really, really penetrates.

My favorite loads have varied over the years. Many years ago it used to be Elmer Keith's favorite, which was a 400 gr pill and 53 gr of IMR 3031. What I've never seen quoted is the overall length Elmer used as he mostly favored a Win 1886 and that rifle can accept a longer LOA.

I found when loaded to 2.55" for use in a Marlin, a 400 gr Speer would deform somewhat as that charge really filled the case. When I switched to an RCBS cast bullet (checked and lubed it was more like 420gr.) I had to drop the charge to 47 gr as it was longer than the Speer. The cast bullet combo was stout enough for our water buffalo in the NT. Before hunting buffalo the Speer pills I had rarely recovered and had always performed well, however on buffalo they expanded to the size of coat buttons, barely penetrating the skin. Both loads had fantastic accuracy.

IMR powders haven't been available here for many years now but a general purpose load that has become a firm favorite is a 415gr HP cast bullet and 45 gr of Reloader 7. That load produces around 30K pressures and in a light rifle is a good compromise between velocity and recoil. From my 22" barreled Marlin, the velocity is around 1850fps and accuracy is superb.

For factory level performance I haven't found a Marlin yet (out of 5 so far) that wouldn't shoot the Remington 405 grain load MOA or better. Unless you're plinking a lot, it doesn't make a lot of sense to handload for that level of performance IMHO.

For handloads, I worked up 2. Both use WW brass and Federal 210 match primers. One was 47 grains of IMR 3031 and a 405 grain RCBS GC bullet .. actually 425 cast from wheel weights with a GC and lube. It was about a 1.5 MOA load. The other was 52 grains of H4895 and the 400 grain Speer bullet. It was repeatably 0.7 MOA or better. (All groups were shot w/ a scope. Scopes varied from 1.5-5X to 3-9X Leupolds, favorite was a 1.75-6X.)

Much as i like .45-70, some where between selling my guide gun back about 2008 ... ish ... and buying the 2nd Marlin Cowboy rifle about 3 years ago, I lost my love for having the hell hammered out of me. It wasn't so much the shoulder as it was the headaches I was getting from recoil. I'm probably out of the .45-70 biz unless I go heavy, like Sharps heavy. Wish Marlin would bring back the cowboy .38-55.

Tom

I also grew weary of my 21" octagon barreled Marlin 45-70 beating me up with a case full of H322 in WW brass and 405 grain Kodiak Super Bonded bullets. I had it Mag na Ported and will now be loading similar charge of H322 in new Starline brass with the 350 grain version of the Kodiak bullet from Alaska Bullet Works.

Loaded a 100 round run with 405's pushed to about 1,700 fps from a Marlin Guide Gun. Accurate, but I need to find someone willing to light off the remaining 85 rounds. The original factory stuff I shot limped along at about 1,200 fps and was quite pleasant to shoot.

Yeah, THOSE are definitely bear medicine.

Put a P-pad on the stock of your Guide Gun and use 'em up 5 or 10 at a time.

Good stuff guys - am getting back into the 45/70 world after a decade without a big bore Marlin.

Nice to see what others are loading. I haven't got a new "standard" load yet, had a few in the past.

Regards, Guy

Remington 300 gr hp's and 50.0 gr Reloader 7 hit 2000 fps and hammer deer. No tracking required...

Close to what I load in my #1 except the powder I use is H4198. 1.5 inches high at 100 and 2.0 inches low at 200. Covers most of my hunting sites.

Lord Black and a big chunk of lead. End of story.

My pet load for my 45-70:


Remington 405 gr JSP
Starline brass
Federal 210 primer
47.0 gr VV N-133
OAL - 2.550", heavily crimped in a Lee factory crimp die
It moves along about 1500 fps

I heard tell that Remington stopped producing their bulk bullet lines. I stocked up on their 8mm, .458, and .358 bullets a while back; now I'm glad I did.

It'd be nice if whoever ends up with Remington's bullet production would produce the bulk bullet lines again.

300gn Speers and 51.5gns of H4198 works for me. Velocity chronographed at a 2150fps average.


.

I just saw a video on You Tube where a gent with an 1886 Winchester (Miroku) tested the same hard casr bullet (420gr?) at 1800 fps and at 1500. identical target medium. Guess which one penetrated more? My load (that I got from FlyBiyFlem) is 37gr of IMR 4198, cci200 primers and it yields 1500 plus with a 425gr hard cast gas check pill.

1minute, bring her over to the house, and we can burn-up those remaining rounds. I think that I’m good for 80....the other 5 are on you! memtb

Had a Marlin 1895 45-70 (22" barrel, Ballard rifling). It shot very well with a Remington 405 grain jacketed bullet over 50 grains IMR 3031. No chrono, but guessing 1700 fps (+?) range. Shot well under 1.5 moa to 200 yards ( furthest I ever shot it on paper).

A bit off topic, but relevant. History has shown the 45-70 to be a reliable killer since its introduction. Traditionally with heavy lead bullets under 1,500 mv. As time went buy and the Army quit shooting horses out from underneath the enemy and the bison herds were gone as well as most of the grizzlies the need for large bore calibers lessened. Then we got improvements in bullets and powders and some decided they preferred the permanent wound channel expanding jacketed bullets create over the penetration of heavy led bullets.

If we had the amazing array of super bullets and powders we have now 150 years ago I doubt heavy lead bullets would of been wanted. So for me if hunting in North America I will stick with the heavy jacketed 350 or 405 grain 45-70 Alaska Bullet Works bullets and a case full of H322. I mainly carry my 45-70 in the off season for bear protection or as a camp/tent gun.

A basic cast 400/.405 gr . I cast mine from wheel weights. Driven at no more than1500fps . A super tough bullet. Will out penetrate the jacketed 405's . Mine run about an11 on my BHN LBT tester. Several good powders like H or IMR 4198, IMR 3031, Tac & more. This load good for about 150yds. It will kill well beyond that range, but trajectory gets to be a problem.

mmm...mmm...mmm !

Yeah, past 150 yards am good at hitting snow.

46 grains of reloader 7 350 hornady flat nose. Goes not quite 1700 fps

Ive used 55 grains of H4831, Fed 215 primer, Remington cases, with a Remington 405 gr soft point. Out of my Marlin 95 with a 22 inch barrel, it gave me 1286 fps, with the 405 Remington factory load going 1224 fps. The load is very accurate with mild recoil (for a 45-70.) At this speed, the bullet does not expand much, it simply disrupts the nose a little flatter. Lots of penetration, the only one Ive recovered was under the off side hide of a buffalo bull. Deer and pigs it sails through.

It is a case full of powder with that bullet which has the side benefit of preventing the bullet from seating deeper in the case in the magazine from recoil.

Phoneman
Do ya have any chrono data from the 38/3031 load?

Manual's velocities seem to vary greatly for 45-70.

So does a crimp.

Back when I started loading for 45-70 I bought a couple of boxes of Remington 405 and a couple of boxes of Speer. Both of these bullets were very scarce back then. I read an article about cast bullets and liked the idea of mostly free cast bullets and never turned back. Over the years I acquired for the 45-70 500 grain, 445 grain, a couple of 400 grain, and a couple 350-grain molds. My most favorite cast bullet is the Lyman 445 grain, with any lube I happened to have on hand with a case full of IMR 4064 out of my Siamese Mauser. I got my loading data from Ken Waters Pet Loades. Only had one at that point in time so I experimented with lots of different bullet molds, a plinking load for beginners, and squirrel hunting was a 255-grain cast bullet out of a Lyman mold for 45 Colt. This mold threw a bullet as cast .458+in diameter. Thirteen grains of Unique with a wad of Kleenex, toilet paper tamped down on the powder made a fun load. For my 1886 I use a 350-grain cast bullet over some IMR 3031.

I have not. A buddy of mine loaded same with 39 gr and shot them from his guide gun and got 1500. He said he thinks that his chrony is off though as that is way above what book says it should be.

I'd be that buddy...

I don't know that my chrono is "off", but I don't know that it's "on" either. It was dang close on some 22wmr loads, and fairly close to some 44mag loads according to the book. I could have shot through on a funky angle and I know with an arrow that will throw funky speeds, but three shots were 1409, 1493, and 1512. Phoneman and I figured that according to book calculations, that load should be in the 1300-1350fps range.

THX quackaddict

Your real numbers vs manual info is what made me wonder about book values.
Real measured numbers are what I was looking for and you have them.
3031 throws a good group to great group out of my 1895 with 22" barrel
and loads around 35 grains so I will have to ladder on up to 39 and see what I get.
Thanks again.

No problem. I don’t know if I mentioned it, but I’m shooting a guide gun. Going to try to get out and chrono a few rounds again next week and I’ll give you an update.

Phoneman, I got very lucky with my new Guide Gun and my initial load development.

This is my information using my cast 430 grain WFN bullets (Accurate Molds)...... cast from wheel -weights, quenched at casting, powder coated, gas checked, sized to 0.459”, using Starline Nickel plated cases, 42.0 grains of RL 7 powder, CCI Standard primers.

This was the first load built for the rifle....virtually zero load development. The first ten cartridges were loaded from some internet information.....just to give me a starting point, check for proper feeding, and observe pressure indications. The first 5 rounds were shot @ 50 yards.....primarily used as a test, and to get on paper.

The group pictured below was rounds #6 through #10, fired about 1 to 2 minutes between shots.....the 4 shot group is just a fraction over 1” (the first of the five shots was used for a scope adjustment), fired @ 100 yards, giving 1789 fps average velocity. Group was obtained using a 4 power scope....higher magnification “may” have improved the group a little!

For my intended purposes, I didn’t pursue anymore load development! I was pretty darn happy with my accidental results! 😁 memtb

I am using a 350 cast bullets with 3031 and a very old can of 4895, 50 grains works fine, Marlin 1895.

For my guide gun I load IMR-4198 50gr behind the remington 300gr HP. I loaded the 405s with 39gr of IMR-4198 in my CBA man only did that once that light rifle almost made my arm go limp. I've since backed that charge down and much more enjoyable to shoot

30-34gn 4198 with the 405gn in a CBA works great with modest recoil.

39gn is pretty stout and more appropriate for a grizzly...maybe.