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All time 45/70 load #13981954 07/17/19
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Phoneman Offline OP
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Curious what you all shoot in your 45/70's as your do all load? I load 405gr laser cast RNFP over 38gr of 3031. Shoots great in my guide gun and my sharps. I have a pile of 350gr Hornady FP I am thinking of loading a little hotter for my no1. Friend gave me some 535gr govt bullets that I hadn't had time to load for my sharps yet.

300 BP

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #13982328 07/17/19
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405gr Remington JSP, 46gr H4198, WLP primer, Starline brass, 2.55" COL, heavy Lee FCD crimp, ~1800fps from 18.5" barrel. That is my "all-around" load until my supply of Remington 405gr JSP runs out.

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #13982406 07/17/19
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My all time favorite in a Marlin is the discontinued 300gr Nosler Partition over 59gr of VVN 133.
Second place is a Hornady 250gr Mono Flex in the shorter Hornady brass and VVN 133 right up to the base of the bullet.

Both are fast , accurate and tear a nice hole as they zip through elk.

Non traditional but they both work great.


"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them.
You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain like the features of a friend."
Isak Dinesen
Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: colodog] #13982464 07/17/19
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Phoneman Offline OP
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Originally Posted by colodog
My all time favorite in a Marlin is the discontinued 300gr Nosler Partition over 59gr of VVN 133.
Second place is a Hornady 250gr Mono Flex in the shorter Hornady brass and VVN 133 right up to the base of the bullet.

Both are fast , accurate and tear a nice hole as they zip through elk.

Non traditional but they both work great.

Ive got a full box of 300gr partitions that ive never shot. Everyone seems to love them, don't know why they wont bring them back out..


Also the 405 gr remingtons are loved as well and they make limited runs of them. I guess since they are creedmores or some whizz bang magnum, they don't care

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #13982478 07/17/19
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Why anyone loads a 45-70 past the 1870's standard load with a 405 grain bullet at 1350 FPS is beyound me. There isn't an animal in North America that could stop one of those bullets at that speed...


Originally Posted by deflave

If you want to fit in with a new crowd, ask them if they know shrapnel. There is no friggin' way they won't know who that man is. He is the Chuck Norris of Montana and you will have a nice icebreaker to discuss.
Travis


Alpha

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: shrapnel] #13982560 07/17/19
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Phoneman Offline OP
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Originally Posted by shrapnel


Why anyone loads a 45-70 past the 1870's standard load with a 405 grain bullet at 1350 FPS is beyound me. There isn't an animal in North America that could stop one of those bullets at that speed...

pretty much what I do. Works fine so far. And its plenty accurate. Ive hit 10" plates at 300 with my old sharps with barrel sights. Not a huge accomplishment for most but definitely one for me. Im just curious what others have used and swear by. I load my 44 mag and 45 colts similarly. Cast bullet 240 or 255 and mostly unique.

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #13982791 07/17/19
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When I was loading for my Rolling Block 45-70s the 405gr cast bullets worked well and were appropriate for what I wanted to accomplish at those speeds but this is posted in the lever gun section so I posted my preferred loads for such.

Different ways to do the same thing. smile


"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them.
You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain like the features of a friend."
Isak Dinesen
Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: shrapnel] #13983929 07/17/19
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Originally Posted by shrapnel


Why anyone loads a 45-70 past the 1870's standard load with a 405 grain bullet at 1350 FPS is beyound me. There isn't an animal in North America that could stop one of those bullets at that speed...




Agree with this observation.

On the other hand, I do load a few 305 gr Lehigh Penetrators (brass solids) ~1700-1850fps with 43-44gr of RL-7, 40gr of 5744 or 43gr of H4198 when am feeling out toothed and clawed by illegal immigrant bears near the Canada/USA border.

With 420gr wfngc I like around 41-44gr RL-7...



Don't ask me about my military service or heroic acts...most of it is untrue.
Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: shrapnel] #13983945 07/17/19
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Originally Posted by shrapnel


Why anyone loads a 45-70 past the 1870's standard load with a 405 grain bullet at 1350 FPS is beyound me. There isn't an animal in North America that could stop one of those bullets at that speed...



WHY???? Because you can...

I do believe that this one would have worked well too!!!

Bottom 'mushroom' 500 grns trundling along at about 1250fps.. top 450grns.... Paper Patched of course.... recovered from a damp sand berm.

I have shot them at 1600fps mol, recoil was...um...er...stout????

[Linked Image]


Last edited by muffin; 07/17/19.
Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #13984575 07/18/19
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Currently shooting 420 gr Garrett Hammerheads but looking for something different as those rounds are very expensive at $95 per box of 20.


That's ok, I'll ass shoot a dink.

Steelhead

Bravo

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: AkMtnHntr] #13984715 07/18/19
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Originally Posted by AkMtnHntr
Currently shooting 420 gr Garrett Hammerheads but looking for something different as those rounds are very expensive at $95 per box of 20.




Until you start handloading 'em...15-19 well-placed practice shots should be enough.


Don't ask me about my military service or heroic acts...most of it is untrue.
Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #13985503 07/18/19
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Shrapnel you gonna hate this......

I got plastic coated 405 grain bullets. I think I read the 305 grain recipie.........when working up the load.

Shot it two winters. I believe three different 1895 s Decided to chronograph it after I learned how to better use my chronograph.

Ended up a 2000 fps in the winter Ooooops.

She don't stick, and she groups.

I am askeered to shoot it in the summer.

I mostly been shooting it out of the 1895 P. must be the plastic coating that helps it out.

I don't have the load data with.

Keep wondering if I should pull em and start over.

It really made me appreciate big loops.

Last edited by Angus1895; 07/18/19.

"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills












Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #13985788 07/18/19
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Marlin Cowboy, enough RL-7 to power 525gr Piledrivers to 1745 fps, hellacious load that's plenty safe and accurate.
Sharps, 76gr KIK 3F under a 530gr paper patch bullet for 1244 fps, rings 500 yard steel with boring regularity.


MOLON-LABE you commie vaginas!
Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #13985863 07/18/19
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I read some of a book called 40 years with the 45/70......

He talks about straight wall cartridges they only need to move a far as the case is long to cut the pressure in half.

Claimed you can't pour enough IMR 3031 to hurt a Marlin? I can't remember the bullet weight.


"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills












Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #13986934 07/19/19
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H4198

CCI magnum primers

Barnes 250 TSX flat point.

3 shots in one ragged hole at 100 yards. Hammers deer

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Angus1895] #13987127 07/19/19
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Originally Posted by Angus1895
I read some of a book called 40 years with the 45/70......

He talks about straight wall cartridges they only need to move a far as the case is long to cut the pressure in half.

Claimed you can't pour enough IMR 3031 to hurt a Marlin? I can't remember the bullet weight.


Since when is blowing a gun apart not hurting it?


Originally Posted by deflave

If you want to fit in with a new crowd, ask them if they know shrapnel. There is no friggin' way they won't know who that man is. He is the Chuck Norris of Montana and you will have a nice icebreaker to discuss.
Travis


Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #13988125 07/19/19
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Hard cast 405gr GC FP over 36gr of IMR-4198. Velocity is around 1500 fps. The hard cast slug does not expand much but will shoot through anything.

I shoot this load out of a Ruger No. 1S and a Browning 1886 SRC.

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #13988741 07/19/19
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Well said shrapnel. Agreed.


"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills












Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #13990027 07/20/19
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For a few years it's been a lead 400 and 31.5 of 5744, just above Trapdoor pressure depending on your loading reference. I ended up with it because that happened to be the weight of 5744 thrown without adjusting the measure that day and it turned out to be a good load.

When I was younger and impervious to recoil I ran 400 gr Speers at 2000 f/s from a No.1, but honestly it wasn't much fun even then.

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #13997780 07/23/19
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I’m running 325 gr. Hornady FTX at just over 2200 fps. Powder is H322. Don’t recall the charge just now but they shoot moa. 3.5 high at 100, on at 200, 19 low at 300. Drop is easily compensated with the pattern 21 sight.

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #14001426 07/25/19
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IIRC, it was gunner500 who said 35 gr. 3031 or 35 gr.4198 with 405 hard cast bullets were great loads.

Those big bullets traveling at around 1,450 to 1,500 fps pack a wallop. Don't need to push them a 2K fps.

Ole Billy Dixon with his big 50 cal Sharps, shot a bigger bullet, but not faster. History has shown what that combo can do.

DF

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #14001597 07/25/19
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33gr of H4198 or 13gr of Unique with 405gr makes a great plinker or *mild* hunting round.


Don't ask me about my military service or heroic acts...most of it is untrue.
Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #14001652 07/25/19
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48 grs. IMR 4198 and any 300 gr. bullet worked well for me since I bought one of the first Marlin 1895's in 1972. Shot well out of a Ruger Number 1 also. Good deer load at just under 2000 fps.


You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: SheriffJoe] #14001664 07/25/19
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I read somewhere that 4198 was more position sensitive than 3031. Not sure, but that can become an issue in partially filled cases.

I remember that from cowboy action shooting, Titegroup was said to be the least position sensitive of the commonly used CAS powders.

Researching on line, I read some Ken Waters load info from years back. He liked 55 gr. H-4831 with 400 gr. bullets at around 1,400 fps. For sure you'd have a case full of powder with that one. Seems a bit slow for such a round, but ole Ken was pretty good at what he did. Cast bullet groups were very good with mag primers. May have to try that one.

DF

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #14001735 07/25/19
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I've tried a bunch of different loads in the .45-70, but one of the best shooting is:

Starline brass
CCI 200 primer
H322, 47 grains
Beartooth bullets Piledriver Jr (advertised as 425 grains, actual weight 436 grains)

OAL @ 2.550"

Yields 1679 fps in my Guide gun, recoil is somewhat sporty off the bench, but accurate...and penetrates.

If a T-Rex escapes the Zoo, substitute the PJ jr for the Piledriver (525 grain, actual weight 540 grains), cut the charge back to 41 grains. Runs 1540 fps and really, really penetrates.

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #14007299 07/27/19
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My favorite loads have varied over the years. Many years ago it used to be Elmer Keith's favorite, which was a 400 gr pill and 53 gr of IMR 3031. What I've never seen quoted is the overall length Elmer used as he mostly favored a Win 1886 and that rifle can accept a longer LOA.

I found when loaded to 2.55" for use in a Marlin, a 400 gr Speer would deform somewhat as that charge really filled the case. When I switched to an RCBS cast bullet (checked and lubed it was more like 420gr.) I had to drop the charge to 47 gr as it was longer than the Speer. The cast bullet combo was stout enough for our water buffalo in the NT. Before hunting buffalo the Speer pills I had rarely recovered and had always performed well, however on buffalo they expanded to the size of coat buttons, barely penetrating the skin. Both loads had fantastic accuracy.

IMR powders haven't been available here for many years now but a general purpose load that has become a firm favorite is a 415gr HP cast bullet and 45 gr of Reloader 7. That load produces around 30K pressures and in a light rifle is a good compromise between velocity and recoil. From my 22" barreled Marlin, the velocity is around 1850fps and accuracy is superb.

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #14011348 07/29/19
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For factory level performance I haven't found a Marlin yet (out of 5 so far) that wouldn't shoot the Remington 405 grain load MOA or better. Unless you're plinking a lot, it doesn't make a lot of sense to handload for that level of performance IMHO.

For handloads, I worked up 2. Both use WW brass and Federal 210 match primers. One was 47 grains of IMR 3031 and a 405 grain RCBS GC bullet .. actually 425 cast from wheel weights with a GC and lube. It was about a 1.5 MOA load. The other was 52 grains of H4895 and the 400 grain Speer bullet. It was repeatably 0.7 MOA or better. (All groups were shot w/ a scope. Scopes varied from 1.5-5X to 3-9X Leupolds, favorite was a 1.75-6X.)

Much as i like .45-70, some where between selling my guide gun back about 2008 ... ish ... and buying the 2nd Marlin Cowboy rifle about 3 years ago, I lost my love for having the hell hammered out of me. It wasn't so much the shoulder as it was the headaches I was getting from recoil. I'm probably out of the .45-70 biz unless I go heavy, like Sharps heavy. Wish Marlin would bring back the cowboy .38-55.

Tom


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Here be dragons ...
Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #14164516 09/29/19
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I also grew weary of my 21" octagon barreled Marlin 45-70 beating me up with a case full of H322 in WW brass and 405 grain Kodiak Super Bonded bullets. I had it Mag na Ported and will now be loading similar charge of H322 in new Starline brass with the 350 grain version of the Kodiak bullet from Alaska Bullet Works.

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #14164714 09/29/19
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Loaded a 100 round run with 405's pushed to about 1,700 fps from a Marlin Guide Gun. Accurate, but I need to find someone willing to light off the remaining 85 rounds. The original factory stuff I shot limped along at about 1,200 fps and was quite pleasant to shoot.


1Minute
Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: 1minute] #14164940 09/29/19
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Yeah, THOSE are definitely bear medicine.

Put a P-pad on the stock of your Guide Gun and use 'em up 5 or 10 at a time.


Don't ask me about my military service or heroic acts...most of it is untrue.
Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #14180160 10/05/19
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Good stuff guys - am getting back into the 45/70 world after a decade without a big bore Marlin.

Nice to see what others are loading. I haven't got a new "standard" load yet, had a few in the past.

Regards, Guy

Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #14205691 10/16/19
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Remington 300 gr hp's and 50.0 gr Reloader 7 hit 2000 fps and hammer deer. No tracking required...

Last edited by 4570fan; 10/16/19.
Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: cobrad] #14205753 10/16/19
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Originally Posted by cobrad
I’m running 325 gr. Hornady FTX at just over 2200 fps. Powder is H322. Don’t recall the charge just now but they shoot moa. 3.5 high at 100, on at 200, 19 low at 300. Drop is easily compensated with the pattern 21 sight.


Close to what I load in my #1 except the powder I use is H4198. 1.5 inches high at 100 and 2.0 inches low at 200. Covers most of my hunting sites.


Re: All time 45/70 load [Re: Phoneman] #14209840 10/17/19
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Lord Black and a big chunk of lead. End of story.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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