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Re: Evolution [Re: nighthawk] #14000267 07/24/19
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oldtrapper Offline
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Originally Posted by nighthawk
Oh yeah, almost forgot.
Originally Posted by Marley7x57
...and that he did not just "poof" exist.

That assume that the creator is subject to the constraints of time. Time as we understand it is a physical fact of the universe as we see it. Since the creator created the universe and hence the idea of time he cannot be constrained by time. So always existed is rational.



Indeed.


Soli Deo Gloria

From slavery to marxism, it's always been "you work, I eat", with democrats

300 BP

Re: Evolution [Re: JoeBob] #14000305 07/24/19
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Originally Posted by JoeBob
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by JoeBob
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by JoeBob
Show me the mechanism and the means that proves that it is Darwinian Evolution as opposed to any other number of speculations.


Here's some light reading for you that will explain it in detail.

The arthor Ken Miller's a Christian, Catholic I believe:

https://www.amazon.com/Miller-Levin...;qid=1564019683&s=gateway&sr=8-4

Here's a short video of him explaining how it was proven in a court of law:





I’m familiar with Miller. This link refutes him pretty well.

http://detectingdesign.com/kennethmiller.html


That's not what the judge said.

Nor how the voters in Dover voted.

[Linked Image]


I’ve hired many a whore...er ... expert to fool...I mean convince a judge with bullschit.




Gotta admit dragging a court of law in to settle a scientific dispute is pretty lame. Kind of a weird appeal to an inappropriate authority. Only the right answer settles it.


Soli Deo Gloria

From slavery to marxism, it's always been "you work, I eat", with democrats

Re: Evolution [Re: ltppowell] #14000324 07/24/19
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Re: Evolution [Re: JoeBob] #14000381 07/24/19
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Originally Posted by JoeBob


I’ve hired many a whore...er ... expert to fool...I mean convince a judge with bullschit.


Are you saying that 150 years of rigorous research into evolution produced nothing but Bull?

Re: Evolution [Re: ltppowell] #14000383 07/24/19
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Dang it - 150 years of belief down the drain!


"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
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Re: Evolution [Re: ltppowell] #14000386 07/24/19
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If the claim is that something so complex as the universe could not possibly exist without a creator, the same rule applies to the creator. The Creator, as a being that's capable of creating a universe, is something far more complex than the universe. To say that the Creator is exempt from the given rule is begging the question, setting your own rules.

Re: Evolution [Re: bludog] #14000389 07/24/19
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Originally Posted by bludog
Dang it - 150 years of belief down the drain!



Belief? The reality of evolution is based on observation, gathering and testing evidence and not belief. Religion is believing without evidence, Muslims believe this, Hindus believe that, Christians disagree with both......

Re: Evolution [Re: ltppowell] #14000407 07/24/19
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Anyone that confuses evolution and religion understands neither.


�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.

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Re: Evolution [Re: DBT] #14000498 07/25/19
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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by bludog
Dang it - 150 years of belief down the drain!



Belief? The reality of evolution is based on observation, gathering and testing evidence and not belief. Religion is believing without evidence, Muslims believe this, Hindus believe that, Christians disagree with both......


Sorry DBT, the reality of evolution isn't based on observation. It's based on assumptions. The ''theory' of evolution is all it is. There is no reality of evolution. There is much more evidence to refute evolution than there is to support that theory. Believe what you will, you might want to really investigate it rather than blindly believe what you've been taught in public schools. God bless.

bludog


"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
Re: Evolution [Re: ltppowell] #14000499 07/25/19
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PS - "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways. As high as the heavens are above the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than yours." I don't pretend to understand it all, but I believe Someone much above me made it all happen. And I believe what He has told us. To believe that all of this diversity and order was an accident seems to me to be the height of intellectual dishonesty. Believe what you will. If I'm right and there really is a God, then there may be a real Jesus who died for all those who believe in Him. And He may be the way, the truth, and the life, and there may be no one who comes to the Father except through Him. God bless all you unbelievers.


"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
Bravo

Re: Evolution [Re: bludog] #14000502 07/25/19
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Originally Posted by bludog


Sorry DBT, the reality of evolution isn't based on observation. It's based on assumptions.


That is your own claim. Anyone who is actually qualified in the field would strongly disagree. The evidence itself disagrees with your claim.

Originally Posted by bludog

The ''theory' of evolution is all it is. There is no reality of evolution. There is much more evidence to refute evolution than there is to support that theory. Believe what you will, you might want to really investigate it rather than blindly believe what you've been taught in public schools. God bless.

bludog


That's another claim. It's a claim that you should justify by providing an actual argument with evidence to support your contention. Making these statements proves nothing.

Last edited by DBT; 07/25/19.
Re: Evolution [Re: DBT] #14000538 07/25/19
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Originally Posted by DBT
Believe what you will, you might want to really investigate it rather than blindly believe what you've been taught..



That also applies to ghost impregnated virgin births and stone dead corpses coming back to life 3 days later

people gladly take such tales as evidence and proof, then set out to demonize those that don't buy it.

if God is Omnicient, then why does he need to write names up in a Book of Life..?
by now it would at least be on CD-ROM ...or "cloud" service .. wink


Originally Posted by JoeBob


I’ve hired many a whore...er ... expert to fool...I mean convince a judge with bullschit.


Have you ever successfully defended a person claiming the existence of a God that told him to kill his/her victims?
I mean first you would have to prove in court such an instigator God exists and then prove what He said to your client.

Would even an all christian jury buy that story?...typically they incline toward seriously chronic mental health at play?

people swear on the BIble in court, yet courts dont buy the 'God told me' as a rational valid defence for ones actions.


-Bulletproof and Waterproof don't mean Idiotproof.
Re: Evolution [Re: DBT] #14000548 07/25/19
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My main objection to the evolution theory is that the evolution scientists, much like the global warming scientists, forged way too much stuff to support their theories, for me to ever believe them about anything. miles


Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
Re: Evolution [Re: milespatton] #14000668 07/25/19
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Originally Posted by milespatton
My main objection to the evolution theory is that the evolution scientists, much like the global warming scientists, forged way too much stuff to support their theories, for me to ever believe them about anything. miles


Way too much stuff forged? What are you claiming...80% - 90% forgery?

The few fossil forgeries that were uncovered happen to have been uncovered by science because science, unlike religion is self correcting.

So the few forgeries that happen now and then in science, yet are uncovered using the scientific method, pose such a problem that everything has to be rejected?....but all the contradictions between religions and within their dogma, taught unquestioningly, is just fine?

Is that it?

Re: Evolution [Re: milespatton] #14000673 07/25/19
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Originally Posted by milespatton
My main objection to the evolution theory is that the evolution scientists, much like the global warming scientists, forged way too much stuff to support their theories, for me to ever believe them about anything. miles




"Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away." - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, 2002
Re: Evolution [Re: DBT] #14000715 07/25/19
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Quote
So the few forgeries that happen now and then in science, yet are uncovered using the scientific method, pose such a problem that everything has to be rejected?....but all the contradictions between religions and within their dogma, taught unquestioningly, is just fine?

Is that it?


I don't recall mentioning religion at all. Are you scared that maybe you might be wrong and are getting defensive? miles


Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
Re: Evolution [Re: RJY66] #14000733 07/25/19
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lanenebraska Offline
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Originally Posted by RJY66
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by meddybemps
Evolution is the way God did it.


According to Genesis, God assigned the job to nature. It says that God commanded that the waters and the earth bring forth all the living creatures, and they did. That's what science says happened, too.



That is not quite right on either account at least as I see it. The next verse in the narrative after the one you are sorta quoting clearly states that God created the critters and told them to multiply AFTER THEIR KIND. The words "after their kind" is repeated several times. You have already stated that you believe that leaves the door open for the evolution theory because "after millions of years" of a species breeding after its kind it can develop into another species. That is fine if you choose to believe that but it can't be proven. It also cannot be disproven.

Evolution is theory not science. Science is about what can be observed, tested and repeated. We can argue for months about the boiling point of water. I can say its 80 degrees. You can say its 212. Neither of us will know until we get a container of water, a thermometer, and a heat source. Then it will be proven to be 212 and not 80 no matter how many times the experiment is repeated. Case closed. That is science.

Conversely, no one has observed nor documented evolution. A metric crap ton of theory and conjecture and a few out right lies have been put out to sell and support it. The simple fact is that no one has ever seen life reproduce except after its kind. Closest thing I can think of that comes close to violating this principle is interspecies hybrids. Man can under controlled circumstances create these. We can breed horses and donkeys and get a mule which is a really neat animal but almost all of them are sterile. I think also a similar situation exists with lions and tigers. Actual science can explain why this happens.....IIRC these similar animals have different numbers of chromosomes and that is why their offspring is not able to reproduce. Hmmmmmm?

Anyway lets get down to the nitty gritty. What is my beef? Well first of all it does not threaten my faith in the least. If it is ever proven to my satisfaction and taken from theory to fact, the obvious fall back position is "that's the way God did it"......which is what most "rational free thinkers" who have a problem with the hurricane in a junkyard creating a shiny new 2018 F-150 aspect of it, or perhaps are afraid of going to hell resort to. Belief in an infinite supreme being gives one a lot of mental latitude. Big bang? No problem, the big banger did it. Life developing over "millions of years".....no problem, the big guy was just taking his time.

So what IS the problem. The problem is that I can't help but notice that the theory of evolution started about the same time very likely by the same group of 19th century intellectuals that thought Marxism was a great idea. They sold it with lies about a pig tooth and a monkey skull put together with glue. I was taught about Nebraska man and Piltdown man as a child in the public screwel system. I was a grown man before I learned that they were hoaxes which really pissed me off. These great "discoveries" were printed on the front pages of all the papers of their times and put in all the school books. When the truth was discovered, it may have been noised about in academia but the papers put it in a one paragraph retraction on section d3 by the classifieds, and NatGeo sure as heck didn't do a special about it like they did when it first came out. Exactly like "fake news" today. It does not matter. Regular rank and file people do not keep up with this crap. A generation of kids believe in evolution based on the lies they were taught, have abandoned faith, and are open to Marxism which was the goal in the first place.

The same playbook is continued. Every so often a :"scientist" or "archaeologist" will show up in the news with a bone he found somewhere. He will tell you what he believes about it and very likely draw some pictures of some kind of human like critter that no one has ever or will ever see and explain how it fits into the big picture. Thus the concept is propagated without any actual proof. More theory which serves the purpose of keeping the idea in people's mind.....that is presented as fact. Rank and file people will read the article, say ain't that neat and forget about it, but they will believe, in a superficial way, in evolution. In other words, the customer base is maintained by continued sales.

If these clowns left it in the realm of theory it would be one thing and I would say nary a thing. But they present it as fact and get real pissy about it if you ask questions. Those of you who think "evolution is how God did it"......go ahead and share that with one of them. They will mock and ridicule you, even though their theory is no more provable or scientific than the creation narrative or the ancient alien theory......Gus, that is your cue buddy! laugh
You MUST believe their narrative, or else you get the ridicule business which is straight out of the Alinsky playbook. The possibility of a supreme being is not allowed because that throws a big ole monkey wrench in the agenda which is acceptance of an all powerful state.

What I find fascinating is that 99 percent of the folks on this board hate a damn commie. Flat out to the point of taking up arms. You want to keep your guns most of all, but also your money, freedom and constitutional republic. Yet some of the most stalwart of you will kneel and take the sacrament of their religion which is evolution as fact. What is the goal of the commies? Destruction of the old order, the culture of Western Civilization by any means. Religion, specifically the Christian religion, WAS a big part of that. Evolution has been the big weapon they have used to destroy that part of it.

Long post I know but I just want to make the point that all skepticism of evolution is not based on solely "being an evangelical" that no one can talk to but in my case moreso the people who are selling it and how they are selling it.





This ^^^^^ Yup

Re: Evolution [Re: ltppowell] #14000783 07/25/19
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Looking for commonality, popular theory says that when electrons first combined with protons or beta particles, Hydrogen or Helium atoms were formed. When an electron drops to a lower energy level in an atom, a photon is emitted. A great deal of photons were released on first combining, giving us an almost uniform cosmic background radiation [CBR].
This is a lot like "Let there be light."


There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
Re: Evolution [Re: lanenebraska] #14000816 07/25/19
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Originally Posted by lanenebraska
Originally Posted by RJY66
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by meddybemps
Evolution is the way God did it.


According to Genesis, God assigned the job to nature. It says that God commanded that the waters and the earth bring forth all the living creatures, and they did. That's what science says happened, too.



That is not quite right on either account at least as I see it. The next verse in the narrative after the one you are sorta quoting clearly states that God created the critters and told them to multiply AFTER THEIR KIND. The words "after their kind" is repeated several times. You have already stated that you believe that leaves the door open for the evolution theory because "after millions of years" of a species breeding after its kind it can develop into another species. That is fine if you choose to believe that but it can't be proven. It also cannot be disproven.

Evolution is theory not science. Science is about what can be observed, tested and repeated. We can argue for months about the boiling point of water. I can say its 80 degrees. You can say its 212. Neither of us will know until we get a container of water, a thermometer, and a heat source. Then it will be proven to be 212 and not 80 no matter how many times the experiment is repeated. Case closed. That is science.

Conversely, no one has observed nor documented evolution. A metric crap ton of theory and conjecture and a few out right lies have been put out to sell and support it. The simple fact is that no one has ever seen life reproduce except after its kind. Closest thing I can think of that comes close to violating this principle is interspecies hybrids. Man can under controlled circumstances create these. We can breed horses and donkeys and get a mule which is a really neat animal but almost all of them are sterile. I think also a similar situation exists with lions and tigers. Actual science can explain why this happens.....IIRC these similar animals have different numbers of chromosomes and that is why their offspring is not able to reproduce. Hmmmmmm?

Anyway lets get down to the nitty gritty. What is my beef? Well first of all it does not threaten my faith in the least. If it is ever proven to my satisfaction and taken from theory to fact, the obvious fall back position is "that's the way God did it"......which is what most "rational free thinkers" who have a problem with the hurricane in a junkyard creating a shiny new 2018 F-150 aspect of it, or perhaps are afraid of going to hell resort to. Belief in an infinite supreme being gives one a lot of mental latitude. Big bang? No problem, the big banger did it. Life developing over "millions of years".....no problem, the big guy was just taking his time.

So what IS the problem. The problem is that I can't help but notice that the theory of evolution started about the same time very likely by the same group of 19th century intellectuals that thought Marxism was a great idea. They sold it with lies about a pig tooth and a monkey skull put together with glue. I was taught about Nebraska man and Piltdown man as a child in the public screwel system. I was a grown man before I learned that they were hoaxes which really pissed me off. These great "discoveries" were printed on the front pages of all the papers of their times and put in all the school books. When the truth was discovered, it may have been noised about in academia but the papers put it in a one paragraph retraction on section d3 by the classifieds, and NatGeo sure as heck didn't do a special about it like they did when it first came out. Exactly like "fake news" today. It does not matter. Regular rank and file people do not keep up with this crap. A generation of kids believe in evolution based on the lies they were taught, have abandoned faith, and are open to Marxism which was the goal in the first place.

The same playbook is continued. Every so often a :"scientist" or "archaeologist" will show up in the news with a bone he found somewhere. He will tell you what he believes about it and very likely draw some pictures of some kind of human like critter that no one has ever or will ever see and explain how it fits into the big picture. Thus the concept is propagated without any actual proof. More theory which serves the purpose of keeping the idea in people's mind.....that is presented as fact. Rank and file people will read the article, say ain't that neat and forget about it, but they will believe, in a superficial way, in evolution. In other words, the customer base is maintained by continued sales.

If these clowns left it in the realm of theory it would be one thing and I would say nary a thing. But they present it as fact and get real pissy about it if you ask questions. Those of you who think "evolution is how God did it"......go ahead and share that with one of them. They will mock and ridicule you, even though their theory is no more provable or scientific than the creation narrative or the ancient alien theory......Gus, that is your cue buddy! laugh
You MUST believe their narrative, or else you get the ridicule business which is straight out of the Alinsky playbook. The possibility of a supreme being is not allowed because that throws a big ole monkey wrench in the agenda which is acceptance of an all powerful state.

What I find fascinating is that 99 percent of the folks on this board hate a damn commie. Flat out to the point of taking up arms. You want to keep your guns most of all, but also your money, freedom and constitutional republic. Yet some of the most stalwart of you will kneel and take the sacrament of their religion which is evolution as fact. What is the goal of the commies? Destruction of the old order, the culture of Western Civilization by any means. Religion, specifically the Christian religion, WAS a big part of that. Evolution has been the big weapon they have used to destroy that part of it.

Long post I know but I just want to make the point that all skepticism of evolution is not based on solely "being an evangelical" that no one can talk to but in my case moreso the people who are selling it and how they are selling it.





This ^^^^^ Yup
That's quite a tangled knot of errors vis a vis evolution.

The fact that leftists have latched onto evolution as a means to damage the Christian basis of the West is, however, true. But the left didn't manufacture evolution. Evolution was discovered during the process of scientific advancement, just like heliocentrism was discovered via the same process. The enemies of the Christian West used heliocentrism in like manner to damage the Christian West. That can't be helped. Discoveries in science will sometimes present challenges to the way a civilization understands the religious basis of its own culture. That challenge should be met, however, rather than attempting to suppress the reality of either heliocentrism or evolution.


"Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away." - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, 2002
Re: Evolution [Re: JoeBob] #14000893 07/25/19
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The_Real_Hawkeye Offline
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Originally Posted by JoeBob

You don’t even understand the argument. Tarquin states it pretty well.

What you're not getting is that the math applied (no matter how rigorous) is irrelevant if the underlying facts to which the math is applied are, to even the slightest degree, in error. Using abstract math to disprove something in the biological sciences is largely futile because math is only a useful proof if all the facts to which it is applied are taken into consideration with perfect accuracy. Which is why math is absolutely fantastic for application directly to fields such as mechanics, engineering, and physics, but not nearly to the same degree when applied to biology. Abstract math is nearly useless as a mechanism for disproving scientific theories relating to biology, because it's far too easy to "lie with math" in a field like that, i.e., picking and choosing factors to take into consideration and those to pretend don't exist. One person may apply one numerical value to a fact of biology, while another may apply a different numerical value to it. Math can be a tool in biology, of course, but as a mechanism (by itself) of disproof, in abstract form, it's nearly worthless, although it can prove quite impressive to non-scientists who are hoping beyond hope for a disproof of a prevailing scientific theory by any means possible.


"Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away." - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, 2002
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