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IIRC, it was gunner500 who said 35 gr. 3031 or 35 gr.4198 with 405 hard cast bullets were great loads.

Those big bullets traveling at around 1,450 to 1,500 fps pack a wallop. Don't need to push them a 2K fps.

Ole Billy Dixon with his big 50 cal Sharps, shot a bigger bullet, but not faster. History has shown what that combo can do.

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33gr of H4198 or 13gr of Unique with 405gr makes a great plinker or *mild* hunting round.


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48 grs. IMR 4198 and any 300 gr. bullet worked well for me since I bought one of the first Marlin 1895's in 1972. Shot well out of a Ruger Number 1 also. Good deer load at just under 2000 fps.


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I read somewhere that 4198 was more position sensitive than 3031. Not sure, but that can become an issue in partially filled cases.

I remember that from cowboy action shooting, Titegroup was said to be the least position sensitive of the commonly used CAS powders.

Researching on line, I read some Ken Waters load info from years back. He liked 55 gr. H-4831 with 400 gr. bullets at around 1,400 fps. For sure you'd have a case full of powder with that one. Seems a bit slow for such a round, but ole Ken was pretty good at what he did. Cast bullet groups were very good with mag primers. May have to try that one.

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I've tried a bunch of different loads in the .45-70, but one of the best shooting is:

Starline brass
CCI 200 primer
H322, 47 grains
Beartooth bullets Piledriver Jr (advertised as 425 grains, actual weight 436 grains)

OAL @ 2.550"

Yields 1679 fps in my Guide gun, recoil is somewhat sporty off the bench, but accurate...and penetrates.

If a T-Rex escapes the Zoo, substitute the PJ jr for the Piledriver (525 grain, actual weight 540 grains), cut the charge back to 41 grains. Runs 1540 fps and really, really penetrates.

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My favorite loads have varied over the years. Many years ago it used to be Elmer Keith's favorite, which was a 400 gr pill and 53 gr of IMR 3031. What I've never seen quoted is the overall length Elmer used as he mostly favored a Win 1886 and that rifle can accept a longer LOA.

I found when loaded to 2.55" for use in a Marlin, a 400 gr Speer would deform somewhat as that charge really filled the case. When I switched to an RCBS cast bullet (checked and lubed it was more like 420gr.) I had to drop the charge to 47 gr as it was longer than the Speer. The cast bullet combo was stout enough for our water buffalo in the NT. Before hunting buffalo the Speer pills I had rarely recovered and had always performed well, however on buffalo they expanded to the size of coat buttons, barely penetrating the skin. Both loads had fantastic accuracy.

IMR powders haven't been available here for many years now but a general purpose load that has become a firm favorite is a 415gr HP cast bullet and 45 gr of Reloader 7. That load produces around 30K pressures and in a light rifle is a good compromise between velocity and recoil. From my 22" barreled Marlin, the velocity is around 1850fps and accuracy is superb.

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For factory level performance I haven't found a Marlin yet (out of 5 so far) that wouldn't shoot the Remington 405 grain load MOA or better. Unless you're plinking a lot, it doesn't make a lot of sense to handload for that level of performance IMHO.

For handloads, I worked up 2. Both use WW brass and Federal 210 match primers. One was 47 grains of IMR 3031 and a 405 grain RCBS GC bullet .. actually 425 cast from wheel weights with a GC and lube. It was about a 1.5 MOA load. The other was 52 grains of H4895 and the 400 grain Speer bullet. It was repeatably 0.7 MOA or better. (All groups were shot w/ a scope. Scopes varied from 1.5-5X to 3-9X Leupolds, favorite was a 1.75-6X.)

Much as i like .45-70, some where between selling my guide gun back about 2008 ... ish ... and buying the 2nd Marlin Cowboy rifle about 3 years ago, I lost my love for having the hell hammered out of me. It wasn't so much the shoulder as it was the headaches I was getting from recoil. I'm probably out of the .45-70 biz unless I go heavy, like Sharps heavy. Wish Marlin would bring back the cowboy .38-55.

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I also grew weary of my 21" octagon barreled Marlin 45-70 beating me up with a case full of H322 in WW brass and 405 grain Kodiak Super Bonded bullets. I had it Mag na Ported and will now be loading similar charge of H322 in new Starline brass with the 350 grain version of the Kodiak bullet from Alaska Bullet Works.

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Loaded a 100 round run with 405's pushed to about 1,700 fps from a Marlin Guide Gun. Accurate, but I need to find someone willing to light off the remaining 85 rounds. The original factory stuff I shot limped along at about 1,200 fps and was quite pleasant to shoot.


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Yeah, THOSE are definitely bear medicine.

Put a P-pad on the stock of your Guide Gun and use 'em up 5 or 10 at a time.


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Good stuff guys - am getting back into the 45/70 world after a decade without a big bore Marlin.

Nice to see what others are loading. I haven't got a new "standard" load yet, had a few in the past.

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Remington 300 gr hp's and 50.0 gr Reloader 7 hit 2000 fps and hammer deer. No tracking required...

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Originally Posted by cobrad
I’m running 325 gr. Hornady FTX at just over 2200 fps. Powder is H322. Don’t recall the charge just now but they shoot moa. 3.5 high at 100, on at 200, 19 low at 300. Drop is easily compensated with the pattern 21 sight.


Close to what I load in my #1 except the powder I use is H4198. 1.5 inches high at 100 and 2.0 inches low at 200. Covers most of my hunting sites.


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My pet load for my 45-70:


Remington 405 gr JSP
Starline brass
Federal 210 primer
47.0 gr VV N-133
OAL - 2.550", heavily crimped in a Lee factory crimp die
It moves along about 1500 fps

I heard tell that Remington stopped producing their bulk bullet lines. I stocked up on their 8mm, .458, and .358 bullets a while back; now I'm glad I did.

It'd be nice if whoever ends up with Remington's bullet production would produce the bulk bullet lines again.

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300gn Speers and 51.5gns of H4198 works for me. Velocity chronographed at a 2150fps average.


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I just saw a video on You Tube where a gent with an 1886 Winchester (Miroku) tested the same hard casr bullet (420gr?) at 1800 fps and at 1500. identical target medium. Guess which one penetrated more? My load (that I got from FlyBiyFlem) is 37gr of IMR 4198, cci200 primers and it yields 1500 plus with a 425gr hard cast gas check pill.


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Originally Posted by 1minute
Loaded a 100 round run with 405's pushed to about 1,700 fps from a Marlin Guide Gun. Accurate, but I need to find someone willing to light off the remaining 85 rounds. The original factory stuff I shot limped along at about 1,200 fps and was quite pleasant to shoot.



1minute, bring her over to the house, and we can burn-up those remaining rounds. I think that I’m good for 80....the other 5 are on you! grin memtb


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Had a Marlin 1895 45-70 (22" barrel, Ballard rifling). It shot very well with a Remington 405 grain jacketed bullet over 50 grains IMR 3031. No chrono, but guessing 1700 fps (+?) range. Shot well under 1.5 moa to 200 yards ( furthest I ever shot it on paper).


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A bit off topic, but relevant. History has shown the 45-70 to be a reliable killer since its introduction. Traditionally with heavy lead bullets under 1,500 mv. As time went buy and the Army quit shooting horses out from underneath the enemy and the bison herds were gone as well as most of the grizzlies the need for large bore calibers lessened. Then we got improvements in bullets and powders and some decided they preferred the permanent wound channel expanding jacketed bullets create over the penetration of heavy led bullets.

If we had the amazing array of super bullets and powders we have now 150 years ago I doubt heavy lead bullets would of been wanted. So for me if hunting in North America I will stick with the heavy jacketed 350 or 405 grain 45-70 Alaska Bullet Works bullets and a case full of H322. I mainly carry my 45-70 in the off season for bear protection or as a camp/tent gun.

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