For your use, I'd also be asking the question steel or aluminum frame? Although to me "range" and "car/home PD" use are two different things as far as what trigger action may be preferred. I do see that a big common attribute between the two is since you don't need to carry it, you can afford a heavy, easy to shoot pistol. Since the sights shouldn't get much "carry abuse", I'd consider adjustable, especially if you want to hit stuff on the range.
Just based on looks and "cool factor", I think the Hi-Power is one of the dead sexiest looking pistols ever made. I luv me some 1911 too, but 9mm and Hi-Power just go together. All that said, I've never owned a Hi-Power. But if a really sweet deal on one ever pops up . . .
Clinging to guns & religion since 1959
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Washington Post: "Democracy Dies in Darkness" More correct: "Killing Democracy Faster Than Darkness"
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Suspect a few Browning HP, CZ, Sig, and 1911 model fans, based on accuracy, reliability, grip feel.
What has been your fave non-polymer 9mm? Thoughts are for a range and car/home PD use, likely 4-5" barrel.
Fixed or adjustable sights?
Always liked the Browning Hi-Power although I never owned one, just shot those owned by friends.
The de facto favorite is a Beretta 92FS since that's what I carry in the car and shoot at the range the vast majority of the time.
Fixed sights but I bought a replacement rear sight from Beretta that has three different height interchangeable blades held in place by opposing set screws, so it offers some elevation and windage adjustments. Got it set to print right on top of the front sight at 15 yards.
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The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
My first place winner : 1911. 2nd place :Browning Hi-Power
Both designed by genius John Moses Browning.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
No love for the Kahr K9? Damned innovative for when it was made. First PPK sized, single stack, striker fired, 9mm to hit the market, and they were pretty reliable. Although I didn't get a Kahr till they came out with the P9 a few years later. In the twenty years I've had mine, having shot in excess of five thousand rounds through it, I've yet to experience any kind of failure to fire when the trigger was pulled on a loaded chamber.
No love for the Kahr K9? Damned innovative for when it was made. First PPK sized, single stack, striker fired, 9mm to hit the market, and they were pretty reliable. Although I didn't get a Kahr till they came out with the P9 a few years later. In the twenty years I've had mine, having shot in excess of five thousand rounds through it, I've yet to experience any kind of failure to fire when the trigger was pulled on a loaded chamber.
I've had the K9 longer than probably anybody here. Proof is that it is an electroless nickel finish, which was soon discontinued. If you base it on which I have carried the most and am likely to carry the most in the foreseeable future, that would be my favorite. Smoooth DAO trigger. Not too light, not too heavy (both the trigger and the gun). Never a wear or corrosion problem anywhere. Very accurate, and yes reliable. Never a bobble with factory ammo or proper handloads (didn't like some poorly sized loads the HiPower ate without complaint). Thousands of rounds through it (I've lost count). Yeah, I love it.
Favorite full-size would be the HP. Favorite "wish I had one but won't pay the price" would be the P7M8.
I thought the same about the P7 until I owned a couple. They were OK, but IMO are very overrated. Nice collector pieces for sure, but for a shooter a lot of modern pistols have surpassed them (by a long way) in my experience. They do have a certain flair though, without question. I've always been more interested in shooting than collecting, so mine went on down the road.
I think my favorite steel frame 9mm pistols are the CZ75 series and Tanfoglio (EAA Witness) pistols, with a caveat - they almost all need some internal polishing and other work to be smoothed out and have great triggers. The match versions of both brands are generally capable of excellent accuracy and are very mild to shoot when tuned right.
I thought the same about the P7 until I owned a couple. They were OK, but IMO are very overrated. Nice collector pieces for sure, but for a shooter a lot of modern pistols have surpassed them (by a long way) in my experience. They do have a certain flair though, without question. I've always been more interested in shooting than collecting, so mine went on down the road.
I think my favorite steel frame 9mm pistols are the CZ75 series and Tanfoglio (EAA Witness) pistols, with a caveat - they almost all need some internal polishing and other work to be smoothed out and have great triggers. The match versions of both brands are generally capable of excellent accuracy and are very mild to shoot when tuned right.
Shooting the P7 is the best part of owning one.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
I thought the same about the P7 until I owned a couple. They were OK, but IMO are very overrated. Nice collector pieces for sure, but for a shooter a lot of modern pistols have surpassed them (by a long way) in my experience. They do have a certain flair though, without question. I've always been more interested in shooting than collecting, so mine went on down the road.
I think my favorite steel frame 9mm pistols are the CZ75 series and Tanfoglio (EAA Witness) pistols, with a caveat - they almost all need some internal polishing and other work to be smoothed out and have great triggers. The match versions of both brands are generally capable of excellent accuracy and are very mild to shoot when tuned right.
Pretty empty comparison, your preferred pistol that needs work and you think a P7 is surpassed today. Overrated? Well again a mighty empty bowl you are serving up.
I do know that I have owned many and still do own several P7s that will out shoot almost any production gun out of the box. I have never honed or polished a single one and they all have performed exceptionally well. They are about the most ergonomic pistol, sitting low in the hand with a 4.13 inch barrel in what would be impossible for any competitor to have a shorter overall slide configuration with that barrel length. The barrel is fixed in the frame and makes it extremely accurate and polygonal rifling will make the barrel practically impossible to wear out.
They are extremely robust and will function reliably with a recoil/delayed blowback design and a fluted chamber that will still extract a fired case should the extractor fail or break. The grip gives a great purchase and easily pointable sight acquisition and yet the magazine is straight up and down with the most reliable functioning magazine you can get. The magazines alone will withstand a cinder block being dropped on them from over 2 feet and still function.
Expensive? Yes. Overrated, surpassed, not really...
Sig P210-6, the old model. Laser like accuracy and flat shooting.
I remember when those came into the country in large numbers back in the 1990s, retired from the Swiss military and police due to replacement with a more modern handgun. I think they were going for around $400.00 apiece. I was working at a LGS when this happened, and could have gotten a nice employee discount, but was too short on money, and couldn't justify it, other than for cool factor (I mean, come one, a single stack 9mm of that size?). Now I regret not picking one up. They were all in nice mechanical condition.
Learned a lot by the feedback, appreciate all. Missed a few P7s over the years, always curious about them, sounds like ahead of their time. Kahr's - yes they are solid, no flies.
Read about possible ammo FTF...with BHP....anyone? Are they all same re: ramp/chamber design? Seems I read certain JHP may not feed well.
Many solid choices. Not one mention of a Springfield EMP? Anyone try one?
I thought the same about the P7 until I owned a couple. They were OK, but IMO are very overrated. Nice collector pieces for sure, but for a shooter a lot of modern pistols have surpassed them (by a long way) in my experience. They do have a certain flair though, without question. I've always been more interested in shooting than collecting, so mine went on down the road.
I think my favorite steel frame 9mm pistols are the CZ75 series and Tanfoglio (EAA Witness) pistols, with a caveat - they almost all need some internal polishing and other work to be smoothed out and have great triggers. The match versions of both brands are generally capable of excellent accuracy and are very mild to shoot when tuned right.
Pretty empty comparison, your preferred pistol that needs work and you think a P7 is surpassed today. Overrated? Well again a mighty empty bowl you are serving up.
I do know that I have owned many and still do own several P7s that will out shoot almost any production gun out of the box. I have never honed or polished a single one and they all have performed exceptionally well. They are about the most ergonomic pistol, sitting low in the hand with a 4.13 inch barrel in what would be impossible for any competitor to have a shorter overall slide configuration with that barrel length. The barrel is fixed in the frame and makes it extremely accurate and polygonal rifling will make the barrel practically impossible to wear out.
They are extremely robust and will function reliably with a recoil/delayed blowback design and a fluted chamber that will still extract a fired case should the extractor fail or break. The grip gives a great purchase and easily pointable sight acquisition and yet the magazine is straight up and down with the most reliable functioning magazine you can get. The magazines alone will withstand a cinder block being dropped on them from over 2 feet and still function.
Expensive? Yes. Overrated, surpassed, not really...
could not agree more
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
Learned a lot by the feedback, appreciate all. Missed a few P7s over the years, always curious about them, sounds like ahead of their time. Kahr's - yes they are solid, no flies.
Read about possible ammo FTF...with BHP....anyone? Are they all same re: ramp/chamber design? Seems I read certain JHP may not feed well.
Many solid choices. Not one mention of a Springfield EMP? Anyone try one?
Good stuff folks - appreciate all replies.
Iv'e shot my brother inlaws EMP and it's a pretty nice, seems very reliable from many range sessions!
S&W Third Gen double stack, any which one will do.
Agreed and throw in the S&W 3913. Very nice guns. Especially like the 6906.
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We moved an actual crate, 4’x4’x3” wooden crate, of P7s through the gun shop when I had worked there about a year. I shot some of them and they were easy to shoot and superbly accurate. Could have bought one for $400 but just couldn’t really get interested at the time. Same story on the Swiss trade in 210s but they were about a grand. Wanted one of them but couldn’t justify it to myself at the time.
Wish now I’d have bought a couple of each but haven’t figured out time travel as of yet.
My wife did get me my current BHP as an anniversary gift for $200 when she was working the counter there. I had to give $400 for hers as a birthday gift the next year.
Firestar. It’s the onlly all metal 9mm I have. Plenty accurate and very reliable.
I had one in their "Starvel" finish (hard chrome, IIRC). Nice shooter. Accurate and reliable, yes. A pleasure to shoot. Every example I handled though, had kind of a sketchy thumb safety. Traded that for the K9, which is also why I never bothered with the EMP.
No love for the Kahr K9? Damned innovative for when it was made. First PPK sized, single stack, striker fired, 9mm to hit the market, and they were pretty reliable. Although I didn't get a Kahr till they came out with the P9 a few years later. In the twenty years I've had mine, having shot in excess of five thousand rounds through it, I've yet to experience any kind of failure to fire when the trigger was pulled on a loaded chamber.
Plenty love here. Have a PM9 amd MK9.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want.
CZ 75, any version. (Being left-handed, mine is an 85B)
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The original CZ-75 and S&W 39 would get my nod from a reasonably practical using standpoint. Mine make it out to the range fairly often. For old timey fun, though, grabbing the bitsa P-08 is a hoot.
I carried the H&K P9S all over creation for a couple of years. Accurate, ergonomic, and accurate.
Should also mention that it was accurate...
I remember seeing those at the gun stores back in the early 1980s. I handled one, and thought (at that time) that the trigger action was very innovative.
Also, if you ever played the original Resident Evil 2 you will recognize it as Officer Kennedy's sidearm. After you kill many dozens of zombies fighting your way back to the police station (as Officer Leon Kennedy), you acquire a shoulder stock for it, permitting the three shot burst feature, which allows you to kill zombies even easier.
Wait a minute. On second thought, I think I'm remembering the VP 70Z.
I thought the same about the P7 until I owned a couple. They were OK, but IMO are very overrated. Nice collector pieces for sure, but for a shooter a lot of modern pistols have surpassed them (by a long way) in my experience. They do have a certain flair though, without question. I've always been more interested in shooting than collecting, so mine went on down the road.
I think my favorite steel frame 9mm pistols are the CZ75 series and Tanfoglio (EAA Witness) pistols, with a caveat - they almost all need some internal polishing and other work to be smoothed out and have great triggers. The match versions of both brands are generally capable of excellent accuracy and are very mild to shoot when tuned right.
Pretty empty comparison, your preferred pistol that needs work and you think a P7 is surpassed today. Overrated? Well again a mighty empty bowl you are serving up.
It wasn't a comparison at all. I didn't say the CZ75 is my preferred pistol, I said it was my favorite steel frame 9mm, which is what the OP asked for. There are a number of other pistols I like better that are not steel frames. I don't carry a CZ75, and don't leave one in the car or on the nightstand. The P7 is a great choice if we pretend it's still 1975. But compared to a lot of modern guns - the appeal of the P7 is mostly nostalgia, not performance.
Browning Hi-Power, with magazine disconnect removed, P-7, and P210. Be Well. Rusty
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill.
Finishing this one up; still needs a good 5 lb duty trigger job.
Military contract MK III (no FPS), cerakoted, sights worked on by Justin McMillan, Uncle Mikes stocks. Awesome pistola-basic, reliable but not "pretty". Destined to be a fave. Bob
Close-up of the re-contoured factory rear sight. White stripes and grooves removed, serrations added. A perfect combat rear sight...black, fixed and serrated. Big enough to see without being too big. Front sight got the same treatment. Justin McMillan, former master AMU gunsmith, did the work.
Reading theses posts,and trying to come up with an answer, keeps me thinking, "yes cool, but a XXXXX is lighter, smaller, and holds more rounds doing it. Which isn't the answer to this question, but it was enlightening to me.
P-7, I wish they were lighter. The nicest shooting 9 i have ever fired. Maybe a box through.
Beretta 92, have fired several, really like them for a big gun. Prefer the Taurus safety.
I almost bought a Sig p-938 a couple months ago used.
Been looking for a similar deal since.
So, if I'm willing to let go of dollars for one.....
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
Good stuff, re: post about Steel frames, I mentioned all metal, to include alloy frames as well. Just non-polymer.....
Learning a great bit of info here by all, appreciate posts and pics. Thanks to all.
Read the Hi Power sometimes has a feeding issue....perhaps with JHPs, has anyone had that or know of it happening?
Thanks again.
Supposedly the older guns with the humped feed ramp have issues with JHPs. My experience with several BHPs is to shoot the particular gun and see. Most I've shot didn't have any feeding issues. Many custom smiths straighten the feed ramp when tuning an older BHP. Newer guns like the MK III have a straight ramp. Bob
Finishing this one up; still needs a good 5 lb duty trigger job.
Military contract MK III (no FPS), cerakoted, sights worked on by Justin McMillan, Uncle Mikes stocks. Awesome pistola-basic, reliable but not "pretty". Destined to be a fave. Bob
Close-up of the re-contoured factory rear sight. White stripes and grooves removed, serrations added. A perfect combat rear sight...black, fixed and serrated. Big enough to see without being too big. Front sight got the same treatment. Justin McMillan, former master AMU gunsmith, did the work.
Nice! I like everything about that one, except the safety lever.
I have never had an opportunity to lay hands on a Baretta. But I helped my buddy pump rounds through a SS Taurus 92 which was built shortly after Taurus purchased the Brazilian factory from Baretta.
The Taurus 92 shot well with everything we threw at it. The only malfunction I ever saw was when my 12 year old daughter limp wristed it.
And based on performance of a Witness in 38 Super, I could be happy with either model in 9 mm.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
Finishing this one up; still needs a good 5 lb duty trigger job.
Military contract MK III (no FPS), cerakoted, sights worked on by Justin McMillan, Uncle Mikes stocks. Awesome pistola-basic, reliable but not "pretty". Destined to be a fave. Bob
Close-up of the re-contoured factory rear sight. White stripes and grooves removed, serrations added. A perfect combat rear sight...black, fixed and serrated. Big enough to see without being too big. Front sight got the same treatment. Justin McMillan, former master AMU gunsmith, did the work.
I have never had an opportunity to lay hands on a Baretta. But I helped my buddy pump rounds through a SS Taurus 92 which was built shortly after Taurus purchased the Brazilian factory from Baretta.
The Taurus 92 shot well with everything we threw at it. The only malfunction I ever saw was when my 12 year old daughter limp wristed it.
And based on performance of a Witness in 38 Super, I could be happy with either model in 9 mm.
the beretta wins the beauty contest, but the tarus is the dodge power wagon. when they first started coming in, they didn't have the decocker, just a on/off safety. i put thousands of rounds of fmj, lead, jcp all kinds of stuff through one, never and issue. the later ones coming in had the decocker. I have shot the beretta 92 brigadeer too and it's a well made pistol. but kind of big and heavy compared to others. i think the cz line of 75's is a later rendtion of a hi power in a lot of ways. one not mentioned here but i think should be is the sauer p6 in government issue, and 225 for civilian use. on the p6 change out the springs to lighten and you have the 225. only 8 round capacity but they are accurate.
S&W 5903 alloy frame adjustable sights. The 5900s got the look; not alike but same type beauty as the Hi Power. Like the Model 15 in revolvers. Just got the look. And work pretty well too. Factory adjustable sights add to it and enhance function.
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Sentimental fave...my old LAPD 92FS, carried daily in LA for many years. New barrel and slide (2nd slide installed by the Armory because the original had lost almost all the finish). This one has had in excess of 30,000 rds down range (free city ammo). A good friend that's never malfunctioned. Bob
CZ-75... Or 85 if you are lefty like me. Followed closely by Hi-power.
If I was going for class over comfort... I'ld reverse that order.
Frankly, I like the Tanfoglio copy of the CZ-75 even better than the real thing, the smaller-framed ones, at least, before they made the "one size fits all" things. I had a CZ-75, nice gun, but the Tanfoglio was better than my very early CZ. I've also had four Hi-Powers, and like them just as well. A couple of them were REALLY great shooters, the other two, not quite as good. All in all, they are top-notch.
You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill.
Honorable mention to the hi-power and the cz75/variants. But have to go sig 226. Pair of slim alum grips, short reset trigger, action job, the thing is beastly fast and still accurate. As art, it leaves me cold. DA /SA and hammer release, blech - 1980’s and popped collars. But as function? Bedside pistol. Complete confidence in. Feels like an offensive weapon.
Golldammed motion detector lights. A guy can’t even piss off his porch in peace any more.
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Nice! Mines in decidedly worse condition but presentable. 1915 DWM. I bought it 35 years ago from an old guy whose older brother brought it home from France after WWI. I should dig it out and snap a pic of it.
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One can never really have too many Hi Powers...this one was purchased with my monthly GI Bill check, new in the box, in 1980. Shoots superbly in stock mode, without any modifications. Bob
Probbly the only 2 I have left...the rest are gone...beretta 92 for a full size and a sig 938. Only small hand gun that I have owned that was actually pretty darn accurate
Went right to busting clay targets at 50 yds, without any warm up with this unfamiliar pistol. And everything said about it in this video, I agree with without reservation...
Went right to busting clay targets at 50 yds, without any warm up with this unfamiliar pistol. And everything said about it in this video, I agree with without reservation...
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