Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Thanks Randy, Jay Scott, Meateater, HUSH, etc. etc.

Ya....that's all they're exchanging....

I assume you saw who bought meatbeater...

Nope.

Personally I don't care who bought them. What I do care about is they're political stance. Let's be very clear and honest here, if you are willing to go to the dark side for your personal needs you are a big part of the problem. Look at CA they keep voting in liberals because the very liberal base puts up worst than what they already have. So conservatives have to vote for the lesser of the two evils which is the likes of Boxer and friends. So when you start that crap here in Montana you are going down a very dangerous road. To that I say I can not and will not support anything to do with Randy, Steve, Ben, or any of the others and including BHA.

I can't support BHA any more either and I hope some of their people are reading this. I joined early on, when they were a fledgling organization. I still believe in their stated mission, which is preserving roadless areas for hunting and fishing. Those who say that goal is "elitist" and/or "only suitable for physically fit 25 year-olds" are way off base. Putting in the hard work it takes to hike in and pack out your animal so as not to be surrounded by the "Orange Army" is hardly elitist and the vast majority of public lands have roads for people who want motorized access. And I've known more than one 60+ year-old who prefers to "use the quads God gave you," including myself.

Anyway, back to BHA. I joined and contributed for one purpose and one purpose only--keeping roadless areas roadless and open to hunting and fishing. It seems to me that they've lost their focus on that core mission, and decided to become involved with backing candidates, backing initiatives that go beyond hunting and fishing, and just in general becoming a political force. Some might say they've gotten "too big for their britches."

Not for me, any more. And that's a shame because Im sure there are many others who believe in the core mission but not everything else that comes with it these days.

Well Said!

Wow Smoke, I am sort of sorry to hear that.

I have a really hard time articulating what I find so revolting about BHA. I guess the best thing i could compare it to is a combination of:

Hearing a sound that is out of place in bear country and trying to balance your obvious paranoia with your very good reasons for being paranoid.
And...
That slimy feeling you get when you walk onto a used car lot and some lying [bleep] with a fake smile walks up and wants to shake your hand and you just don't want to touch him for fear you'll never get the smell off. And no offense to used car salesmen.

Actually, that wasn't tough to articulate at all. Its just that all of that is gut reaction, and that isn't how I like to make decisions.

Just googled it, they've been keeping that on the DL....

Chris, I don't find it "revolting." There are a lot of good people, volunteers who donate their time for something they believe in like Buzz. Which is more than what most here can say.

It's just that their leadership has gone beyond what I signed up for and left me behind. Backing a particular candidate in a state I don't live in is not what I signed up for. Nor is forming "alliances" with groups I know nothing about and may not agree with.

It seems that they are effective though. When the crowd behind "green decoys" engages you know they've struck a nerve, high-powered Washington lobbyists like Berman don't come cheap.

They're are effective. You dont attract the fat cat donors unless you have something to offer.

I'm sure Tawney isnt hurting to make the rent......

This sounds like a description of Berman and Company, the guys behind "green decoys," the most vocal critics of BHA. The guys who defended the tobacco industry, corn syrup, and fish with mercury. Nothing wrong with defending or lobbying for products using a high-powered Washington lobbying firm, that's capitalism at it's finest. And it's also done through non-profits Berman sets up so that the "fat cat donors" who back him remain anonymous.

Ironic, ain't it?

Yikes! ME bought First Lite over in Ketchum....one of few liberal counties in Idaho.

What is wrong with the tobacco industry, corn syrup, and a lot of big game fish have mercury. How does this pertain to hunting and gun rights?

Last I checked everyone has known for years and years that smoking is bad for you as is corn syrup. You have choices in life to make, it's called personal responsibility.

Also as the old saying goes "two wrongs don't make a right"

I don't think anyone here is saying Rinella, Newburg, and BHA aren't great marketing platforms. Of course they sell a lot of products. That doesn't make them right, and it only goes to show how stupid and divided both the hunting and gun community is. You Live by the Sword so shall you Die by the Sword.

Everyone wants it to be the way they like it, but it doesn't happen that way. You could enlarge that lack of unity to include the NRA as well. Being fractured in our views of what we like has caused us a lot of pain that isn't going to end soon...

I agree

That's right. There's nothing wrong with the products or people making their own choices but that's not what I was talking about.

What I was talking about is PR campaigns designed to promote the message that tobacco, corn syrup, and mercury "really aren't that bad for you," and run through non-profits set up by Washington lobbyists so that the people funding the PR campaigns can remain anonymous.

And the irony that the main talking points used by those same Washington lobbyists to attack BHA is the source of their funding. In other words, pot, meet kettle.

In my opinion, some of the blame needs to be put at the feet of the Realtree, Mossy Oak, Primos, Drury's, etc. They were the ones who really pioneered what I call "whitetail TV" and really ushered in the "Horn Porn" era we currently live in. I believe that they are partially responsible for the decline in hunter numbers, specifically in the Southeast and Midwest. Everyone now wants to kill a giant whitetail and have pushed out a lot of "casual" or meat hunters due to lack of opportunity caused by the privatization of a lot of land or pricing them out of the game for leased land.

When I was a kid, I could go around, knock on a few doors and within a week have permission to hunt a portion of 5-6 farms (I grew up in south-central MN). Now, either the land is being leased to some hunter willing to pay $15/acre, it has been turned into a subdivision, or the owners won't let you hunt it because either 1) they are morally opposed to hunting (Thanks Disney!), or they are "managing the herd" for themselves.

Same thing in the Southeast. When I got out of the Navy and moved to GA, the only way to get on good deer property was to pay upwards of $1000 to get on a lease that would only let you shoot one buck (many have size restrictions way beyond the state's) and a doe or two. Pretty much the same in TX. Here in MO, there are some solid public land opportunities, but most farmers won't just let you hunt their land. Almost all of them want $8-15 an acre to lease all of their property.

So, that leaves guys like me a dilemma. Do I limit myself to archery and hunt mostly public land? Do I spend $2500 on a lease? Or, do I take half of that $2500 and do a public land elk hunt out west? Yes, there is a bit more travel involved, but the scenery is unmatched, there is a ton of open space and public land, and if I get lucky and shoot an elk (even if it is cow or rag-horn), I end up with as much meat as killing three whitetails. And if I am going to do that I might as well apply for a deer tag and antelope tag and make the most of it.

As for the people listed in the title, I have watched some of them, but I do it for the entertainment value and because some of them actually do offer up some good tips and tricks sometimes. For guys like me who grew up hunting the Midwest and Southeast, anything that can improve my learning curve is appreciated. As for hunting in the same locations, I am smart enough to know that is a stupid idea. I may look at the same units they are hunting, but there are a lot of other resources out there that I used to base my decisions on what states, units and hunts to apply for. If I do get drawn, I will damn sure take a trip out there before the season to put the time in to scout, just like I do to hunt public land here, but I will also use any other means available to me such as online maps and even YouTube videos. I want my hunt to be successful, and I want to learn, so I will use everything at my disposal to ensure I do both.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news BUT hunting Leases have been going strong long before the TV shows.

Knew/know what you are talking about. My comment still holds. I could give two if anyone choices to smoke, consume whatever, not wear seat belts or helmets. We all know, it's a choice, and you pay the consequences! Lobbying isn't going away, Gun rights, hunting rights, and the Second Amendment IS! They (anti's) have time, money, and organization, we have very little of those. Think I am Wrong?

I understand that. It wasn't much of a thing in the Midwest in the 80s when I was growing up there. It is now. It has always been a thing in the Southeast, but when lease prices went from $3/acre to $15/acre in the span of 3-5 years, that is when it became a problem. High $ leases have also been going strong in TX for quite a while, but that is mainly due to lots of private land and lots of oil & gas money to pay for the leases.

Again, the point that I was trying to make was that a lot of us Eastern and Midwest whitetail hunters have often thought/dreamed of heading out West to hunt but it has been cost prohibitive when we have good hunting in our own backyards. That "good hunting" is now much more in line, cost wise, to hunting out West, so some of us are taking a year or two off of hunting here to fulfill that dream.

The other thing that I didn't mention in my first post was that more and more sportsmen are being forced out of the Left Coast states and are settling in neighboring states. I also know quite a few people who are leaving CO due to the influx of crazies from CA. And as the need for more infrastructure grows in NM, AZ, UT, ID, WY and MT, more people will be moving in from the east to fill those jobs, quite a few of them will most likely be hunters. This is also increasing the number of people putting in for permits in those states.