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You guys keep talking about the long barrel on the MHG like it was longer than standard rifles of the era. It had a 26" barrel the same as the 1899A, B, and C's. As a matter of fact it was an 1899A barreled action with a few slight modifications like the muzzle turned down for the bayonet. It even had the high gloss receiver-not very military-like.


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Originally Posted by wyo1895
You guys keep talking about the long barrel on the MHG like it was longer than standard rifles of the era. It had a 26" barrel the same as the 1899A, B, and C's. As a matter of fact it was an 1899A barreled action with a few slight modifications like the muzzle turned down for the bayonet. It even had the high gloss receiver-not very military-like.


David what's the ring in front of the receiver?

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Military doctrine of the era still depended on the bayonet to be an important weapon. Prior to the Great War infantry rifle barrels were universally long, 28-30", for the express purpose of extending the reach of the bayonet. Gew 98's in the hands of Kaiser Bill's troops retained that long length and a relatively short bayonet but the Brits' SMLE's and Yanks' '03's had been shortened by then to 23-24" barrels (but fitted with rather long bayonets to make up the difference). Hence the MHG fell somewhere in between. Interesting statistic: less than 1/2 of 1% of recorded injuries were attributed to bayonets. Then as now they were mainly used as kitchen utensils.

I wouldn't have wanted to spend any time in the trenches of the Western Front trying to keep the flotsam-jetsam and mud out of those enclosed delicate innards of a Savage lever gun. (Heck, I wouldn't have wanted to spend any time in those trenches period.)


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[quote=gnoahhh Interesting statistic: less than 1/2 of 1% of recorded injuries were attributed to bayonets. [/quote]

Same with fatalities?


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I agree, the 99 would have been a nightmare keeping clean on the western front. Had the MHG been brought into action, likely not as they seem to have been populated with bankers and other professional types, I think they would have quickly tossed their 99s aside for the venerable SMLE.


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Originally Posted by Fireball2


David what's the ring in front of the receiver?




Not David, but that ring (half ring actually) is to capture and hold the back end of the handguard. Again, a fairly common appliance found on milsurps. The 1903A3 Springfield had the same ring in front of the receiver ring.


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Originally Posted by S99VG
I agree, the 99 would have been a nightmare keeping clean on the western front. Had the MHG been brought into action, likely not as they seem to have been populated with bankers and other professional types, I think they would have quickly tossed their 99s aside for the venerable SMLE.



Like the Canadians did with their Ross's when they encountered the horrible conditions in the trenches.


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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Interesting statistic: less than 1/2 of 1% of recorded injuries were attributed to bayonets.


The bayonet could serve a practical use once you have fired your weapon dry in close quarters, but a 10 lb rifle makes a much better club than a pike pole. Really it's main purpose and service is as a psychological weapon.

The sight of hoards of screaming men firing and charging your position with bayonets fixed will send all but the most hardened battle tested troops into a terrified dash for their own lives.


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British troops advanced in ranks and columns during the Great War, at barely a walking pace per strict orders. Tommies who went over the top at the Somme, July 1, 1916, were weighted down with 70 pounds of gear on their backs on average. No fooling, they even had to take their winter greatcoats with them on that hot summer day. Emergency rations, lots of extra ammo and grenades, rifle, bayonet, and full pack all added up to a basic inability to run much even if they dared to. Miles of uncut German concertina wire added to their misery as German Maxim guns scythed through their ranks. Casualties that day added up to around 60,000- most in the first 1/2 hour of the attack. Not much bayonet fighting happened...


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When they went over the top they should have thrown down their packs, gave a rebel yell and bum rushed em, got in the enemy trenches and gave em the pistol and shovel.

Surprise, speed, audacity and shock and awe might have won the day (all words that weren't really part of the British military's vocabulary at the time)

Better than being slaughtered like live stock.

Wandering off topic here.


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Shovels? We were taught to use our E-tools in hand to hand combat instead of the lightweight M-16 and bayonet when I was in MC Basics School in the early '70's. (E-tools were the little shovels we carried for those of you who aren't knowledgeable in military jargon)


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Were I there, when I got close to the German trench I would drop my rifle and go in with a grenade in my left hand and .45 in my right. Key words there: "when I got close"- fat chance of that happening in the first place

. Knobkerry's were a favorite weapon for Brits conducting trench raids at night. (A wooden "caveman" club with spikes sticking out.) Life was short and cheap on the Western Front.

Howinhell did we get so far off into the weeds?


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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Were I there, when I got close to the German trench I would drop my rifle and go in with a grenade in my left hand and .45 in my right. Key words there: "when I got close"- fat chance of that happening in the first place

. Knobkerry's were a favorite weapon for Brits conducting trench raids at night. (A wooden "caveman" club with spikes sticking out.) Life was short and cheap on the Western Front.

Howinhell did we get so far off into the weeds?


In order to get out of the weeds on this one I propose we vote to have Roy buy all of the rest of the regalia and paraphernalia that went with the Montreal Home Guard. Hell, who knows, they may have got free beers out of the deal too - or am I confusing things here with the McKenzie Brothers?


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Originally Posted by wyo1895
Shovels? We were taught to use our E-tools in hand to hand combat instead of the lightweight M-16 and bayonet when I was in MC Basics School in the early '70's. (E-tools were the little shovels we carried for those of you who aren't knowledgeable in military jargon)


https://www.wearethemighty.com/hist...-became-a-deadlier-weapon-than-a-bayonet

Scroll down to the video. Pretty interesting for those that are interested in such things...


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Great video. The good e-tools we had were very similar to the Aussie one in the video except the blade folded back on the handle which was about 16" long. Probably in the early 70's some genius developed an e-tool that not only had a folding blade but the handle folded again in the middle. It was too weak for hand to hand combat. I had one of the earlier type for years but it seems to have gone away.


wyo1895
With Savage never say never.
For a copy of my book on engraved Savage lever actions rifles send a check for $80 to; David Royal, p.o. box 1271, Pinedale, Wy., 82941. I will sign and inscribe the book for you.
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I just received the book "Allied Rifle Contracts in America" and it has more information on the MHG and guardsman than I have found anywhere on the innernet.


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cool


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It's a miracle. I found my e-tool. I just figured the boss left it lying in the yard and so yahoo had taken it when we lived in the PRC.
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closed. It came with a carrying case that we attached to our back packs. maybe it will turn up some day too.
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The best e-tools came with a spike opposite the blade that could also be configured 3 different ways. For loosening up the ground before you started your fox hole or...


wyo1895
With Savage never say never.
For a copy of my book on engraved Savage lever actions rifles send a check for $80 to; David Royal, p.o. box 1271, Pinedale, Wy., 82941. I will sign and inscribe the book for you.
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In the Navy, we called those entrenching tools. We didn't abbreviate many things.


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