Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 7mm-08 with 150 gr Nosler Partitions

I recently purchased a Remington 700 Classic in 7mm-08 with some Kampfeld upgrades that shoots 150 gr Nosler Partitions very well. I really like the rifle, the weight, the mild recoil and the way it shoots.
Here is my dilema. I have a wilderness horseback elk hunt (probably my last) scheduled for the fall of 2020 in Wyoming. I also have rifles in 6.5 CM, 7x57, 280ai, 30-06 and 300WM that I like and are very accurate. I have a self imposed shot limit of 300 yards. I am not a turret twister. My last two hunts there have produced 6x6 bulls at 160 and 27 yards.
Is the 700 in 7-08 up to the task?
donsm70

The debate I am having is between 140 grn Accubond or 140 grn Trophy Copper for my elk hunt.

Bottom line, the 7mm-08 is up to the task.

I’d load it with either 150 gr 160 gr Partitions And not think twice about it.

donsm70

First, good luck with your hunt! Secondly, it's absolutely up to the task. Thirdly, I thought you'd be shootin' a ULA or NULA???????????? LOL

I've killed a bunch of elk with a 270 using 150 gr bullets of various types, including PT's. There isn't a lot of difference. Use it and enjoy.

Gunwriter John Haviland and his family like and use 7mm-08s for much of their hunting, including elk hunting. I think one of the sons uses a Remington Model Seven with 18-1/2" barrel in 7mm-08. Why don't you write him a letter?

Thanks for the help, guys.

RazorHog,
The 7x57 that I mentioned is a NULA, as well as one in 260 Rem. I'm not sure the 260 would handle a heavier bullet. I normally shoot 120 gr with the 260.

donsm70

Any of the rifles you mentioned are absolutely capable of elk, especially at the ranges you mention. I have taken numerous elk over the years & my favorite is one of the 6.5's. I like the mild recoil & flat trajectory. Any reasonable cartridge with a stout deep penetrating bullet properly placed will get the job done. I prefer the Barnes mono's. They have proved 100% reliable with complete penetration from any angle even thru heavy bone.

The 7-08 is up to the task. Probably couldn't find a better bullet than the Nosler Partition. Good luck.

I'm seriously considering using my 7x57 with 150 gr. Nosler Partitions loaded to 7-08 velocities. I can easily do 2700+ FPS and do have a load that does 2800+ FPS so should work for the elk hunt I'm doing this coming December.
Paul B.

All of the rifles chamberings that you listed are up to the task with good bullets.

Pick whatever you want and practice with it.

Yes. Slam Dunk.

Easily up to the task.

This!

if my 708 shot 150 PT's well, that's what I'd be loading!!

instead, I run the 150 AB.

inside 300, I'd not lose sleep over the load.

The 150 ABLR might eat into powder capacity a bit. To 300 yds, I'd run the following:

150 PT
140 AB
150 NBT

One other option, the 120 Barnes, but at modest speeds, the above 3 will give you solid performance.

Yes.

And I’m not posting any more dead elk 7mm-08 pictures.




P

I'm struggling to understand how this is even a question...

Because so many hunters think elk won't die unless they're shot with a .300 or .338 magnum. Or they've heard that from somebody....

That's a good looking bullet but in my three 7x57s and a .280 Remington it's about useless. I'd originally on using that one in the 7x57 as a means of getting a little more range but accuracy has not been good. I keep trying different seating depths but the best I've gotten in any of my rifles is three inches. Guess I'll just have to go with the Partition.
Paul B.

+1

If he'd said moose would opinion be the same? Saves me a post.

I’m always astonished how many locals - often native Montanan’s - are so-armed. I suppose it’s a group-think/peer-pressure/testosterone-laden type of thing. Of course, even locals can have very little experience killing elk, and are susceptible to the common idea - spread via various media - that a magnum is a requirement for killing elk.

I have a friend that grew up in Helena, and had good opportunity to hunt elk. As a teen, in his and various other relatives hands, his 7mm-08 took over a dozen elk. Somehow though, in his twenties, he felt certain he needed a 300 RUM. He does, however, drive a big jacked-up 3/4 ton truck. I asked him if he’d ever had trouble killing elk with his 7-08, and he replied “never.”

Go figure...

Yes and to think in days of yore people have been reported as even shooting moose with a 30-30 can you believe that. Cheers NC

I think it was Bob Hagel that said “Don’t choose your caliber based on what you can get away with when everything goes right. Choose something that will work when everything goes wrong”

Very few people need a magnum for most situations and probably even less can shoot well enough to make the shot even when it would be necessary. I know I shoot better when I’m not getting body slammed every time I pull the trigger.

I did shoot my last elk with a 7mm08 but I doubt I’ll do it again. Yes it’s dead but, personally, I feel better with some more bullet weight in the air. I’m looking at a 35 Whelen right now.

I know guys that shoot piles of deer with 223’s but I wouldn’t do that either...

Hey John,
You should have posted this before I bought that 300 WM. You know, of course, that is just for target practice.

Thanks again to all that replied. Now, I just have to be healthy enough to go.

donsm70

Enjoy your hunt sir, and come back and regale us with your adventure. Post pics please.
I’ve had nothing but great results with the 150 NP, and have every expectation that you will too.

The trouble with magnums comes with those pesky short range opportunities that present themselves so often when pussy footing around. I do like my .338 when in active grizzly country. Let your guid worry about that though.

Cheers, and Good Hunting

Yes, for the 10,000th time.....

So the same would apply to a 308 and 165 Partitions or how about 130gr TTSXs? Also, I have a personal limit of around 350 yards and I am not much of a knob turner. I've had great luck using the B&C reticle out to 350 yards.

I have killed bulls with a 270 and a 44 magnum handgun. A 7mm-08 or 308 will certainly kill any elk alive with good bullets and reasonable shot placement.

The Partition would be an excellent bullet for the task.

The 300 yard self imposed limit makes it even more of a no brainer.

I’d be just fine myself with any of those combos. A good shot is a good shot. Elk are tough but none of them can live long without lungs or heart.

I’ve killed a few elk with the 7-08 and the 150 NPT as well as the 140 NPT. All within 200 yards and no tracking required.

Take it and go have fun. It’ll do it for sure.

Which one the ABLR? Some bullets simply do not sync great with various throating on certain rifles, etc. or for whatever unknown reason just are fickle.

I say shoot what you are comfortable using....Literally. I bet the youngster using the 300 RUM is not as comfortably feeling that go off, vs when he used his 7/08

Displacement cannot substitute Shot Placement........So be sure you can hit vitals. I recall Sam Fadala writing about his wife going hunting Elk with her Sako 7/08. She knocked one over before they realized she grabbed the 'wrong ammo' - and used factory 140 Corelokt. Likely the original loading that IIRC, used the 139 Hornady IL-SP. I took aim with that very bullet chambered in a 20" Win M70 carbine on an elk at 40 yds one fall in Colorado....but it was not legal. Next day I bumped off a Mule Deer in the same spot, but at 115 paces. Did quite a number on that deer, thru the neck and unfortunately exited hitting the spine/backstrap and hind quarter.......doing quite a bit of damage. It would have done an elk no good. I do not like the current 140 CL that Rem calls "New CL" - do not seem to be accurate when I tried them.

Good luck on your hunt OP - have confidence.

A few years back, like maybe 8 or so I thought I was going on an elk hunt. The guys on the forum (Not this forum) kept telling everyone that for elk you need a 7 mag minimum and that a .300 or .338 mag would be so much better. So I never having shot an elk bought a 7mag off a Gun Broker auction for $205 with the intent of having it re-barreled to .308 Norma. Then a guy I knew said he had a .300 Weatherby he'd sell me. So I bought it for $1000. It's a Lazer Mark and a damn nice gun (which I still have). But I ended up leaving the 7 Rem. Mag as a 7 MM Remington Mag (and still have it)and Then I didn't go on the elk hunt. Now that I have two magnum rifles, I get on here with some very experienced elk hunters and I find very few here use magnums and most use everything from a 7-08, 7x57, to a .270 and .30-06. I have a 7x57, a .270 Win. and a .30-06, so I guess if I get the opportunity I'll have plenty of choices. And I shoot my .270 so well, I've had it for 53 years and killed a slew of deer and hogs with it, that I'm thinking from what I read here that I'll load me up some 140 or 150 grain NP over some RL 22 and go kill an elk.

How is that a dilemma, exactly...?


As long as my bullet speed exceeds 2800 fps I am perfectly confident in it out to 350 yards.

Thanks again to all that have replied. I have enjoyed the thread and you guys have confirmed my suspicions. 7-08 with well placed 150 gr NP equals dead elk.

PS. I may have 10 or 12 rifles up for sale very soon.

donsm70

Yeah, it’s a generally fickle bunch on Internet forums when it comes to rifles. Or scopes. LOL!

Never have shot the 150 partition at elk in a 7-08, but they would work for sure. I've shot 14 elk with 140 grain accubonds from my 7-08 from 50-620 yards.

Day before yesterday, my 14 year old nephew shot this cow in Wyoming with his 7-08 and a 120 grain ballistic tip at 231 yards...load particulars 46.5 grains H380 MV 2825 FPS. Broke the on side shoulder bullet was just under the hide about 3 inches behind the off shoulder. Elk ran about 25 yards, swayed for a couple seconds and down.



I shot this cow last night with my newly re-barreled and refinished ruger tang safety m77 in 6mm. My Dad and Grandfather bought this rifle new for me in 1979 and was my first big-game rifle. Good to have Dad, my brother and 2 nephews along list night to see that rifle put back to use. Shot was 134 yards with a 95 grain ballistic tip, nicked the back of the on-side shoulder exited on the point of the off-shoulder. Ran maybe 30 yards.

Great pics! Way to make meat buddy!

That 6mm looks wicked.

I think you meant niece....

You lost me at 700 Don.

Rhetorical

That's a dickhead comment

I'll add my "yes" to the pile. A few weeks ago a cow elk met a 139 gr GMX projectile going about 2900 fps out of my Remington 700 7-08 (stock other than a McM hunter stock). It wasn't the biggest elk around, but it was decent sized and it took about 1 step before going down.

I'm throwing in with those who say the 7mm08 with the 150gr NP will be fine. But I'll like to add something unrelated to bullet and cartridge headstamp. A good rifle for a horseback hunt has some special requirements. It should be on the short side and not overly heavy. And, if scoped, the scope should be small too. All this is important because the scoped rifle must fit under your leg in a scabbard. So, for me, the rifle itself is more important than the headstamp. But, maybe you already know this.

super T,

Excellent points.

Have actually seen the objective bells of longer scopes bent slightly, but noticeably, after riding around for a while....

Almost 20 years ago now, we started hunting elk with 300's and 338's just "because they were tough and the mountains were big".
Well, right now no one shoots a 300 of any kind. Its all 30-06's, .270 Win., and .308's. Go figure - what worked in the midwest on whitetail deer, worked on elk in WY. CO, and NM..

I betcha 10 dollars to a donut that those 150 gr Partitions from a 7 aught 8 won't bounce off any elk!!

I put 1000+ miles on a Browning A bolt SS stalker in 7 Mag with 26" barrel plus a brake, mules and horses, leupold 4x12 A.O.

First, I hate a rifle under my leg, I want to feel the animal and give him cues with the calf of my leg...he is used to this. So, I tied the Rifle scabbord to D rings on the right front side of the palma, rifle went down toward the stirrups, straight up and down. I had taps on my stirrups. Rifle was easy to get out of the scabbard while sitting in the saddle, while difficult/impossible pulling it out from the rear when the rifle is under your leg.

When hunting off a mule or horse, you get a lot closer to game if members in the group are not talking, and your tack does not "clank". During Summer months, we have rode right in the middle of elk herds and not disturb them.

The observations and experience of someone with a 1000+ miles on horseback hunts can't be ignored, but I must ask, were these hunts in North America? I ask because I have never hunted with a cowboy/guide/outfitter who would allow a paying hunter to pull a rifle as you described out of a scabbard while still mounted.

I'll second your bet. When I had a 7mm08 (just sold it on GB a couple weeks ago) I settled on the 150gr. partition as a "do all" bullet. I actually bought a few (maybe 5) bags of seconds from shooters pro shop and will likely sell those for a good deal to someone. I don't see how you could go wrong with that combo. I've been thinking about buying another 7mm08, but a Tikka superlite when I find a good deal on one. I may just hang on to my partitions until the right superlite comes along.....

I've always wanted a 7mm-08 but owning 280s, 280 AIs, 7mags of various flavors, it just didnt seem like enough gun for elk. I've been shooting a 308 for 4-5 years now and have come to the conclusion that a properly constructed and placed bullet kills everything I hunt, regardless of caliber or cartridge.

I've waxed and waned several times in recent years on the 7mm-08.

I think a SA Rem 700 Mtn Rifle, punched to 284 win with a Wyatts mag box shooting 150/160 Partitions or lighter TTSX would be a 1 rifle masterpiece. Likely also dropped into a McM Mtn Rifle Edge stock with a NF SHV 2-10 on top. Likely weigh right at or slightly under 7lbs. Hmmm.......

Or just leave it 7mm-08......

I don't understand the dilemma I guess. Yes, it is up to the task, but you have at least 1 equal choice (7x57) and 3 even better choices. I can understand if you only owned the 7mm-08 ... I'd say go for it. I can understand if you just really really really want to kill an elk with the 7mm-08. But lacking those two, which you seem to, it seems foolish not to reach for one of your even better options instead.

Tom

I’ve killed elk with the Mighty -08 and watched others do the same. Never felt under gunned. It’s about bullets and placement anyway.




P

You say you have a 300 win, that is accurate, and you like. Run a premium bullet out of it, the closer to 200 grains, the better.

Last year I also hunted a guided/wilderness elk hunt in Wyoming, as a retirement gift to myself. We hunted at timberline, and above. My bull died at 11,800 feet in elevation, the nearest tree was well below us. Possible shots could have covered the spectrum, in distance.

Big/mature bulls can take a beating. In my experience they are much tougher to kill quickly than raghorns and cows. The bull that I killed in Wyoming, took three 200 grain accubonds, out of a 300 win, into his shoulder at 435 yards, on the ridge top. He was a big bodied 7x7, that had a 50"+ outside spread.....his reaction to each shot was close to nothing. He just stood there, and took all three.....then turned around and went ass over end, down a granite chute, coming to rest about 200 yards below. He chocked up on a single basketball size rock on a small level spot. Otherwise, it was another 500 yards to the bottom.

His cape was ruined, his skull fractured in multiple places......several of his molars were broke in half, vertically. Luckily, the meat and horns were in good shape. If I had to do it over again, after the first 2 shots, I would of tried to break his neck, and anchor him up on top. The quartering of that bull had a pretty good risk factor......think bighorn sheep country.

My math for NOT using a lesser cartridge/bullet is:

mature/tough animals
wild and open country
expensive wilderness hunt
traveling from Pennsylvania
already owning a more capable rifle that is proven
hunting in grizzly country (that's another discussion, in itself)

No doubt which rifle to take.

FWIW, I usually use fixed powered scopes and etched reticles. But on this hunt, at the suggestion of the outfitter, I took a long range 300 win with a NXS nightforce on it. It's the only scope I 100% trust, when spinning turrets. The scabbard I took was the trail max by outfitter supply. After a 14 mile horseback ride in, the actual hunt, and 14 miles back out....the rifle remained sighted dead on.

The guide had my day pack and rifle on top of a pack mule, that he led, while we were hunting. After the bull was down, my pack and scabbard went on my horse, and the first load of meat went out on the mule. It worked really well, especially in grizzly country.....getting that first load of meat out.

Anyhow, that's what worked on this hunt. As they say, "your mileage may vary".

Andy3

Andy makes more sense than all I have read here..

Maybe because he’s BTDT.

Like they say in theological circles, revelation vs speculation.

DF

Maybe, but the 7mm-08 never seemed impressive.. I have used mine on coyotes pigs, whitetails and antelope.. Can't say I know anyone that has one in this country... I am sure there are but never see them or talk to 'em .. I have only found a very few pieces of brass at the local range..

As much as I like my 7-08, if I was going elk hunting, I’d probably take my 7RM, 160 gr NAB’s over 67.5 gr RL-26 at 3K fps. Not that the 7-08 wouldn’t do the job, maybe just as well, I have a lot of confidence in that 7RM load, know what it will do.

DF

I would agree with you completely!!

My good friend uses nothing but a Browning BLR 308 and 150 Corlokts. He has killed some nice bulls out around 350yds, but mostly he kills smaller/younger bulls & cows up on the ridges in mixed timber and under 200yds. I like more "oomph" in an elk round but there are many who use the 7mm08 and do well. Big bull hunts though, that cost a lot of money? Its marginal.

How do you know this?

BTDT. One bull. Seriously?

With big bulls and expensive hunts, I want all the margin I can pull together.

DF

I don't necessarily object to your opinion, I'd just like to know on what experience that opinion was formed.

And be warned, Brad has killed big mature bulls with a 7mm-08.





P

My guide buddy in Alaska has had his teenage son and wife use a 7-08 quite a bit. The son shot a black bear and two caribou. The wife has taken a caribou and cow moose. Its funny when the lower 48ers show up with magnum 300's on up. The need for confidence comes in many cartridges.

Hello Brad. Here's a brief history of my elk hunting experience. I'm 58 years old and have been hunting bull and cow elk since 1982, when I moved to New Mexico from North Carolina, at age 21. I am a self taught elk hunter, and the first couple elk hunts came up with no tags punched, but it was a learning process that I wasn't going to give up on.

I was hunting 4th season rifle tags (because the odds were much better than 1st rifle tags, so I could hunt every year). I learned to hunt bedded bulls, in black timber, on north facing slopes....on small benches. The first 4 bulls I killed were between 16 and 32 yards......with a 375 H&H. Still my favorite black timber elk rifle.

I killed quite a few elk in NM, but mostly rag horns and a few cows, because I was young and hungry (literally), working construction. I always killed the first legal animal I saw. But, I learned to kill high pressured elk.

Some years later, I heard that Idaho had OTC rifle tags, that opened September 15th, for 2 months! I sold out, and moved to Boise without any leads on work or a place to live. I did this so I could hunt elk every year, if I didn't draw. NM was 100% draw OR buying land owner tags....not an option for a blue collar guy.

I killed a 5x5 that first year in Idaho, on Sept 16th 1995. After that, I was lucky enough to draw some very good bull tags, so I could finally start holding out for larger bulls....and I did. My favorite Idaho draw hunt lasted 16 days, and I shot the 47th branched antlered bull that was in rifle range. I turned down more 6x6 bulls, on that hunt, more than I had seen in my entire elk hunting career!

It's been that way, every year since. And yes, I killed a 6x6 this year, with a muzzleloader on an either sex hunt....had a slim chance at the biggest bull of my life, but he made it to private land, 200 yards ahead of me.

The Wyoming hunt was something I always wanted to do, hunting the wilderness area, on the east side of Yellowstone, near Cody. I had max points and wanted one of the best hunts in the state. Being in the wilderness area, and me being a non resident, I hired the best outfitter I could find. And he made it everything I could ask for in a guided hunt, with me killing the biggest bull of my life. My first guided elk hunt was the perfect retirement present to myself.....and I don't see me doing it again. Perfect.

So Brad, this is what I base my elk hunting opinions on. At nearly 59, I'm still learning, as I tend to hunt different units each year. I know there are better elk hunters than me and more dedicated ones too......a couple are my best friends. But, I take pride in hunting alone, figuring out new country, and getting elk killed. I've been pretty successful doing it.

Andy3

Not like shooting your elk in the back pasture....

Andy, great story. I love my 280 but in that situation would also use my 7RM. In a hunt of a lifetime I believe what is better is best. I really enjoyed your rendition of the hunt. Enjoyable! Yes, a 7-08 would do but in the end it is what is best in a worst case situation, not what works in a lesser situation.

Being comfortable with a round and a rig is a big leg up, IMO.

Go with what works for you, what you have confidence in.

That’s what I do and will continue to do.

It’s opinions.

DF

Andy, thanks for answering, though my question was directed to Dirtfarmer.

You are obviously an actual elk hunter. Same age as me. Similar bio, except I don't travel beyond Montana to hunt since were are quite blessed with good wilderness here around Yellowstone to hunt elk. My hunting is also all solo on public wilderness, both dayhikes and multiday backpack hunts. Depending.

Since you've answered, I see you mention the 375 H&H... what other cartridges have you taken elk with besides it and the 300? What was the outcome?

Happy Thanksgiving.

Brad, I apologize about fielding the question meant for Dirtfarmer.

Off the top of my head, I can recall killing elk with: 8mm Rem, 375 H&H, 300 win, 338 win, 54 cal muzzleloader. And one cow, many years ago, with a .270. All elk shot at, ended up dead, without any cripples or lost game....."knock on wood". Some, with the 300 have taken more than one shot, as I keep shooting until they hit the ground. I can't remember any elk staying on its feet when hit with the bigger bore cartridges. A couple with the 54 stayed upright after the shot, but where down by the time I got it reloaded.....one cow took 2 shots, with it. I don't recall any of the first shots, that weren't fatal....but elk are tough, and crippled elk seldom head for your rig, to die!

It's a pretty even split, I would guess, between the 300 win and 375 H&H, for total count. The 300 gets the nod when hunting more open country, where I can pick my shot, usually draw hunts. The 375 is used when expected ranges are less than 300 yards.....usually OTC hunts, in the thicker stuff.....where I CAN'T pick my shots.

But, if I had to pick one......I have a stainless Ruger 338 win, with iron sights, and a 2.5x8 leupold with B&C reticle with QR rings, shooting 225 grain accubonds. The iron sights are set for 300 grain woodleighs, 1" high at 50 yards. That gun pretty much covers everything in North America, and perhaps the world.....I just hope my 375 doesn't hear that!

I once read that, "a 338 kills elk, like an 06 kills deer". I find that hard to argue with.

Have a great turkey day!

Andy3

Thanks Andy and Brad for a interesting exchange. Enjoyed reading it.

I’ve used a 300 mag with good results. My latest project is a 98 Mauser 338-06. That one would be an interesting elk rifle. I’ve read here on the Fire, with good authority, that it’s the boolit not the headstamp....

Use what works.

DF

4
Sure pharm, you know its all about the rifle. Tikka or nothing baby!!!!

More bulls without a Tikka than with...

But not since 2013.

He has some impressive groups and dead critter photos.

And don’t forget to mention Big Game powder. Good stuff in the 7-08.

DF

How do you know this?

You know you are right! I do not have first hand knowledge of any failure with this combo, so I am not qualified to naysay it! Please forgive me guys. I myself have killed a 450-500 pound Scimitar Horned Oryx ( spike elk sized) at 184yds ( base of neck, pass through) with a 6mm 85 XBT going 2900 at muzzle! ( used a 222 Magnum necked up to 6mm, had a recent neck fusion). I also killed two axis deer same hunt. A 90lb doe and at least a 150 pound ( or more) buck. That
opinion" of a 7mm08 was hypocritical of me! .

Not to muddy the waters, but my grandson killed the largest cow elk any of us has seen with a 7mm-08 shooting a 120-grain Nosler Ballistic Tip. One shot at 309 yards, got both lungs and the bullet exited.

Thanks for the response Andy. It does, however, bring to mind an old saying; "experience can be long but narrow."

You obviously favor large armament, and have not veered from that philosophy. Of course there's nothing in the world wrong with that. A big gun is never a bad thing, as long as you can shoot it (you obviously can). However, the term "confirmation bias" does come to mind. Hmmm...

I've used the 338 WM and 300 on big bulls. I've used the 270, 7-08, 30-06, and 308 on big bulls. They all died, but lighter rifles are far more enjoyable to pack for my hunting style (mostly backpack hunts), and lighter recoiling cartridges are more fun to shoot in light rifles. Obviously if a horse is carrying your rifle, within reason it really doesn't matter what it weighs. However, I prefer rifles around 6.75 lbs "all up" (scoped, w/ sling and rounds). For me, the 338's and 300's really should weigh in the 7.75lb range, and really, a bit more weight is better (it goes without saying "balance" is more important than sheer weight or lack of it).

I'd also suggest you really don't know what a 7-08 with a 150 gr bullet is capable of unless you've killed more than a few elk with it and similar rounds. Cartridges are truly more alike than different. Punch the lungs and elk die quickly like any other deer. Hit them at the margins, they'll run all day no matter the cartridge. And despite what gunwriters say (and which everyone seemingly repeats), I've never found big bulls die much different than any other average sized elk. Blasphemy I know...

At the end of the day, we only have ourselves to please. But I can truthfully report there has never been a bull I've taken, including old mountain animals in the 6.5-11.5 yo range, that needed anything more than a good bullet from a 7-08.

Brad,

Here's one "gunwriter" who doesn't say bigger bulls are harder to kill--and I've also known other writers who don't believe it either, some of whom have killed more elk than many other hunters and gunwriters. Bob Milek killed a pile of elk, and among his favorite rounds was the .25-06.

That also jibes with a Colorado elk outfitter I met a number of years ago, whose clients had taken an average of around 30 elk a season for many years. Have told this story before but here it is again: I asked him what he felt was a good minimum cartridge for elk hunting, and he immediately said: "Two fifty-seven." I then asked him whether he meant the .257 Roberts or .257 Weatherby, and he said, "Either one!" Bob Milek's .25-06 falls right between them.

As you pointed out, one of the potential problems of judging "adequate" cartridges is is "confirmation bias." Quite a few hunters start with their mind made up. They also rarely or observe other people shooting big game, particularly elk hunters, because they tend to hunt alone even if they camp with others. And even if they do see others kill game, firmly believe a hunter has to personally pull the trigger for rifle/cartridge experience to be valid.

The other problem, of course, is that many hunters (and even many guides and outfitters) still have almost no clue about the difference the specific bullet can make in on-game performance. I still run into many Montanans who firmly believe any bullet lighter than 180 grains is inadequate for elk, both because all they've used are typical cup-and-cores, and they've rarely seen anybody else kill elk. I even knew a younger elk guide in Idaho who believed the .338 Winchester with a 225-grain bullet was the best minimum. Why? Because that's the cartridge he picked years earlier as a teenager--and used with a particular 225-grain cup-and-core. He was even astounded when any smaller cartridge killed big game quickly. Thus, once again, confirmation bias.

Of course, one of the reasons I wrote this is the numerous times I've heard, "Gunwriters always say X." Gunwriters do NOT all have the same opinions, any more than other hunters so do not all write the same things. Perhaps the most blatant example occurred when Eileen and I had a table at the Bozeman gun show maybe a decade ago, partly to sell our own books. One guy around 60 stopped and looked them over, then said, "So you write about hunting rifles? Why is it all you gunwriters say the .270 isn't enough for African plains game?"

I looked at him and said, "I've never written any such thing, because I know from experience it's not true." But he was already too far into his rant to hear me. (Or maybe he was simply a deaf older shooter.) He went on for a couple more minutes before finally leaving. Instead of trying to argue with him, I just waited him out, which over the years I've discovered is easier than arguing with such people.

Personally, the minimum cartridge I know is adequate for elk is, like my outfitter acquaintance in Colorado, the .257, whether Roberts or Weatherby, because I've seen the job done cleanly with one bullet from both.

John, good stuff as usual.

I know you and know you're not "one of those gunwriters." Of course we all stumble in what we say and write, and I should have said "some gun writers."

Problem is, those are the ones that are most adamant and loudest... a lot like some of the personalities on this forum.

Yep!

However, some of them do change their minds over the years--but we tend to remember their adamant statements. Craig Boddington has changed somewhat over the years, partly due to actually shooting a big bull elk with the .270 Winchester, with a 150-grain bullet at over 400 yards during a hunt on the Whittington Center in New Mexico. It went down faster from a plain lung-shot than any other bull he'd taken up to that time with larger cartridges. Then his daughter started hunting, and used the 7mm-08 in Africa with good results not just on one animal, but quite a few. And Craig acknowledged that he'd had to reevaluate some of his long-time beliefs.

Brad, You point out how what I do works, but then start critiquing what I do, with comments like...... experience can be long but narrow.....and confirmation bias....how heavy my rifles are......and how I don't know what a 7-08 does unless I use one.

I don't question what works for you, so who put you in charge of doing that to others? Or perhaps this is your idea of a "discussion"? To be truthful, you come across as a bit of a self righteous ass.

I don't shoot pheasants with a .410, or fly fish with 7X tippet, or big game hunt with a lesser cartridge.

At the risk of "justifying what I do"......see specific responses, below.

John, Is this the write up regarding the bull your referring to? If so, I don't think Mr. Boddington has jumped on the 270 wagon....at least not with both feet!

https://www.cabelas.com/product/Elk-Medicine/532930.uts

Andy3,

I was not referring to any particular "write up," because I have read several--and also stood in the very spot where Craig shot from, maybe 2-3 years later, with the guy who was with him at the time, now-retired Whittington Center director Mike Ballew. Mike also pointed out where the bull was standing, and described Craig's surprise when it dropped so quickly.

Having some experience in the same business as Craig, I am not surprised he hasn't "jumped on the .270 wagon," because real hunting-gun journalists (as opposed to those who made up their minds years ago), need to keep experiencing, experimenting and reporting. I was pointing out that Craig has learned from his experiences--and reported on that experience honestly, along with his daughter's use of the 7mm-08. Whether he jumped on any wagon is beside the point.

In fact, I was in the process of deciding on what to write for my monthly column for the Campfire. One of the ideas involved how being a gunwriter can result in actually learning something, if you haven't already made up your mind. Your comments helped make up my mind to write on exactly that subject.

John, Glad to help!

Take care, Andy3

I've seen two rifles that had their barrels bent--both of them by horses while the rifle was in the scabbard, one barrel was a 24" and the other a 26" (it was a very pretty Mark V no less).

Did the horse roll over on them Alpine? What do you think caused the damage? I've always taken a rifle out of the scabbard any time I was away from the horse awhile. Those crazy things always seem to find a way to rub or roll over, even when tied! ha Many times, I just rode with the rifle slung or across the pommel ala John Wayne ( the Searchers) style, lol. "That cuts it Preacher!"

Just to clarify "my" definition of marginal. Any load that will not completely penetrate on a broadside shot "most of the time". To me, smaller calibers require that I wait for a shot presentation that I am comfortable with, meaning in my mind I am 80% sure I will get the results I'm after. I pass a lot of shots, or course, I think we all do. IOW, I won't take a hard angling shot that I am not 80% sure of with even a heavy rifle and not at all with a smaller round. Just me. I like to shoot heavy animals with heavy/hard hitting rounds; I just like that "OMG I've been shot"! look on their face!

But, I know several guys who kill their elk every year with .243, 6mm Rem, one 240W, far more with .270/30-06/7mm Rem Mag than 300s-375s. I know only two fellows that use a 25-06. Never ran into anyone over here with a 257 Roberts. If good bullets/good shooting is done, I can't honestly say anyone is wrong. Nowadays, the most "unethical" thing I see is NOT using a smaller round, but shooting at a longer range than they have practiced for. I am worthless judging the wind past "hold on the windward edge of the kill area", so LR is much shorter for me than most. I guess that's why I am more comfortable in the edges or timber. Rare to get broadside, but I do get them!

+1

15th elk I've shot since 2013 with a 7-08, 140 Accubonds...73rd elk I've shot.



My Dad, Brother, and a good friend have all killed elk with the same rifle. My wife has shot 2 elk in her life, both good 6 point bulls, with her 7-08 and 140 accubonds, both one shot kills and combined they went less than 20 yards after being shot.

I've sort of come full circle on elk and what I shoot them with. I started using a 6mm, quickly went to a 30/06, then a .338. Used a 7 RM for a number of years, but since 2013 have only shot one with anything bigger than a 7-08 (shot one with my Dads pre 64 in 30/06). Haven't killed one with a .338 since 2006.

I cant say shooting them with my .338 resulted in quicker kills than the ones I've shot with a 7-08, or even a .243/6mm for that matter.

Used my 6mm remington I just had re-barreled on one this year too...and a 95 grain ballistic tip, complete pass-through at pinch over 100 yards. Same performance as most other elk I've shot through the lungs...40-50 yard scramble and done.



Elk aren't nearly as tough to kill as most people believe.

Dang Buzz! 73 elk! First off, I'm jealous, 2nd, how do you sleep at night? surely you are "haunted" by that many dead elk! ha. Congrats. That is a nice looking 6mm you ave there!

That's the first hunting rifle I ever owned, ruger m77 that my Dad and Grandfather bought for me in the winter of 1979. I beat the hell out of it in my youth, so re-barreled and reworked the stock. Back to as good as new...

Big Roosevelt cow I killed with my 6ai, 80 gr bt

I need to load some of those in my 6 and kill some deers w em.

Pretty impressive combo out to 450