|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,309
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,309 |
I use an electric drill to slowly rotate the case held in a proper size shell holder in a semi dark room. Remove the heat as soon as the neck/shoulder turns deep red. No water. I use two shell holders to make handling easier.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,114
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 11,114 |
I've read the link, and am having a hard time reconciling it with my experience. To believe the results, you have to believe that you can heat brass to 800F and NOT anneal it. It also conflicts with my experimental results. I checked my annealing by cutting a chunk out of the sidewall of a rifle case, and flexing it back and forth 90 degrees until it cracked. 7-8 flexes would usually do the job. Then I took another chunk from the same case, annealed it, flexed it 5 times, annealed again, and repeated. Sometime after 120 flexes I gave up trying to crack it. It had more endurance than I did.
Be not weary in well doing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,159
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,159 |
I use one of these ![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/GJaMeck.jpg) It works well but, to do it again, I would probably spring for the AMP.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,682
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,682 |
I use an electric drill to slowly rotate the case held in a proper size shell holder in a semi dark room. Remove the heat as soon as the neck/shoulder turns deep red. No water. I use two shell holders to make handling easier. Brass begins to glow a faint orange at about 950° so I'm assuming a deep red might be approaching 1300° In either case both of them are going to produce brass that is "over"annealed the deep red approaching "extreme" annealing Trystan
Good bullets properly placed always work, but not everyone knows what good bullets are, or can reliably place them in the field
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,054
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,054 |
Yep, the old "red glow" that used to be advised for annealing WAY over-anneals brass. Heating to 800 does not make brass glow even faintly.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,472 |
I've read the link, and am having a hard time reconciling it with my experience. To believe the results, you have to believe that you can heat brass to 800F and NOT anneal it. It also conflicts with my experimental results. I checked my annealing by cutting a chunk out of the sidewall of a rifle case, and flexing it back and forth 90 degrees until it cracked. 7-8 flexes would usually do the job. Then I took another chunk from the same case, annealed it, flexed it 5 times, annealed again, and repeated. Sometime after 120 flexes I gave up trying to crack it. It had more endurance than I did. I cant wrap my mind around that either.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,741
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,741 |
loaded 6BR Lapua.......p/dog gun........... got up to 45 reloads in Gold Box 6BR Lapua per case....Never annealed........... what'd I do wrong ? P/dogs consistantly died out to 600 yds......pic 6BR (Ret) ![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/mPOadUm.jpg)
T R U M P W O N !
U L T R A M A G A !
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,831
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,831 |
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,126
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,126 |
loaded 6BR Lapua.......p/dog gun...........
got up to 45 reloads in Gold Box 6BR Lapua per case....Never annealed...........
what'd I do wrong ?
You're probably using a moderate load and a Lee Collet Die. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,054
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,054 |
Am guessing you didn't resize them in conventional dies!
There are all sorts of things that affect the "need" to anneal. One is how much the case necks are sized each time: The less they're sized down, the less they work-harden. Which is one good reason to use dies that don't have an expander ball, whether Lee collet dies, or bushing dies that only neck them down enough to hold bullets firmly.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,741
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,741 |
this (in pic) was a dedicated p/dog gun.......
retired in summer of '18.....built in 2002..12 twist for 70-75's
dies.....yes......Lee collet neck & Redding bushing neck dies........Forster BR seater
Built on a s/shot Savage action.....assembled by Pac Nor (before I knew how) nutless
Ran it 16 years......with an honest estimated 13K rds........
Last day I used it in pic........dogs died at 625 yds......awesome cartridge !
Still have the barrel.........parted the rest out.......
T R U M P W O N !
U L T R A M A G A !
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,741
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,741 |
loaded 6BR Lapua.......p/dog gun...........
got up to 45 reloads in Gold Box 6BR Lapua per case....Never annealed...........
what'd I do wrong ?
You're probably using a moderate load and a Lee Collet Die. 6BR.......31/H4895 with moly 70 gr Nozler BT.......3300 fps IIRC.....
Last edited by tikkanut; 08/14/19.
T R U M P W O N !
U L T R A M A G A !
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 218
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 218 |
I've read the link, and am having a hard time reconciling it with my experience. To believe the results, you have to believe that you can heat brass to 800F and NOT anneal it. It also conflicts with my experimental results. The reason it doesn't seem to make sense is because they've taken the position that full annealing is the only proper way to anneal. What reloaders refer to as "annealing" is typically referring to recovery annealing, that is, keeping temperatures relatively low to gain a modest increase in ductility (reduction in hardness) while retaining the basic strength properties of the material. When you keep the brass at 800F as in your example, that's recovery annealing. To take an often used example, when the cases get red hot, that's moving past recovery and into full annealing where there's a much larger increase in ductility (large reduction in hardness) along with a large reduction in the strength of the material. So when AMP is saying Salt Bath Annealing isn't effective at softening cases it's misleading. SBA is effective for recovery annealing, the type of annealing reloaders normally practice, but isn't effective for full annealing which AMP is claiming to be the proper way to anneal. I'm not taking a position on which is "better", just explaining the basic idea behind the seemingly contradictory information coming from AMP.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,313
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,313 |
Anybody use the Giraud propane case annealer? Looks to be infinitely adjustable for temp, and duration of exposure to heat. Several feed wheels to fit most cartridges.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
I've read the link, and am having a hard time reconciling it with my experience. To believe the results, you have to believe that you can heat brass to 800F and NOT anneal it. It also conflicts with my experimental results. The reason it doesn't seem to make sense is because they've taken the position that full annealing is the only proper way to anneal. What reloaders refer to as "annealing" is typically referring to recovery annealing, that is, keeping temperatures relatively low to gain a modest increase in ductility (reduction in hardness) while retaining the basic strength properties of the material. When you keep the brass at 800F as in your example, that's recovery annealing. To take an often used example, when the cases get red hot, that's moving past recovery and into full annealing where there's a much larger increase in ductility (large reduction in hardness) along with a large reduction in the strength of the material. So when AMP is saying Salt Bath Annealing isn't effective at softening cases it's misleading. SBA is effective for recovery annealing, the type of annealing reloaders normally practice, but isn't effective for full annealing which AMP is claiming to be the proper way to anneal. I'm not taking a position on which is "better", just explaining the basic idea behind the seemingly contradictory information coming from AMP. That's a pretty good analysis and a good description how they supported their conclusion. My take on it was that AMP sells $1500 annealers, and has a pretty big stake in "proving" that nothing else is as good, especially if it's just a $100 DIY setup. I was surprised how many people believed it though, and several even claimed that a company like that wouldn't mislead us. I also observed that the pictures of AMP's "salt bath annealed" brass look different than any brass I've annealed in a salt bath, so they did something different there. When salt bath annealing, I don't see dark case necks like they got. I get bright case necks with a pretty distinct "wet line" just past the shoulder where the bath surface was, and some darker discoloration past that. One other comment on salt bath annealing - most of us keep the salt bath at 900°F. We're trying to get case necks up to 750°F, but with heat transfer, we're trying to heat the necks without heating the base, so we have to use a higher bath temp and keep the time short.
Last edited by Yondering; 08/26/19.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 942
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 942 |
I have a friend that has an Annealeze. I give him my cleaned de-primed brass and he anneals them for me. He has told me that after I resize, and trim to let him anneal them again for uniform neck tension. Is annealing them a second time worth it? or is that overdoing it? I am good either way, as my only cost is a few propane bottles.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,517
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,517 |
Are you supposed to anneal after sizing?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,774
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,774 |
I have been loading for years and years and I have never anelled a single piece of brass....what is the benefit...?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
I have been loading for years and years and I have never anelled a single piece of brass....what is the benefit...? Consistent neck tension for accuracy, and eliminating case neck splits. In loading for years and years, have you never split a case mouth?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
Are you supposed to anneal after sizing? I anneal before resizing. With salt bath annealing, you do need to deprime first though.
|
|
|
|
|
653 members (1badf350, 12344mag, 06hunter59, 10gaugemag, 1beaver_shooter, 10gaugeman, 75 invisible),
2,539
guests, and
1,290
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,190,687
Posts18,456,421
Members73,909
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
