Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Maryland’s ‘Red Flag’ Law Turns Deadly: Officer Kills Man Who Refused To Turn In Gun

The local news said the man put the gun on a table beside the front door. A scuffle broke out when the man realized why the cops were there. The gun was knocked to the floor and discharged. On hearing the gun go off, one of the cops started shooting.

Cops showing up to someone's door out of the blue (without any prior knowledge on the part of the subject that anything was even amiss) to take his guns (someone the cops were told was a deadly threat, thus the order) is super likely to result in someone's death.

Looks like McConnell is leading the charge to neuter the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and the 5th Amendments for gun owning Americans. He's pushing for Trump's desired new Red Flag laws at the Federal level.

Exactly this. The Constitution allows citizens' property to be taken but only after due process of law, and you've covered all of the high points of that. Ability to face your accuser, not the ability for any anonymous person to make any claim against you they want. Presumption of innocence first and foremost - the government has to prove that their claims are true before acting, not after the fact.

Even laws that follow due process can be abused, eminent domain being one example. Having a law on the books that flagrantly throws out every cornerstone of due process is, I don't know how to describe just how un-American this is. It is a textbook example of the very abuse of power the framers of the Constitution tried to prevent and deliberately spits on that document.

Red flag laws are unconstitutional for several reasons. You are assumed quilty when someone makes the accusation and then must prove your innocence. Even if you are completely cooperative and hand over all your firearms there is no guarantee you will get them back once the issue is resolved in your favor. LE will go through your guns and take what they want. The rest will be destroyed or lost and when you go to pick them up, they won't return them, you will be told sorry Charlie.

People get emotional about their firearms, not because of the firearm itself, but because of the memories associated with them. Hunts with your grandfather or you dad. Days spent in the field and conversations with good friends. As we get older we enjoy looking at our guns and remembering days gone by. For some those days are over and no more memories will be made.

The same is not true of hammers and drills.

Amen!

Beyond that, they represent your status as a free citizen of a free nation. Disarming a free man is to make him a slave, and our instinct as Americans is to resist enslavement, even to the point of death.

This is a golden ticket for liberals to harass and bludgeon any and all gun owners and ANTIFA is all the proof you need that, given a platform, that mob is relentless and merciless. Many liberals have no qualms making false claims to move their agenda and there are plenty of liberal medical professionals that would happily sign-off on an order to go after a law-abiding gun owner fully believing they're doing a "good thing". Can you even imagine the personal, professional, financial, legal and medical consequences of having to constantly defend yourself against this ongoing onslaught on your property, personal/professional standing and freedom? Not good......

Guy's niece turned him in because she didnt think he need a gun. Admitted he was not a danger AFTER the fact. Dont forget the 5am part of the story

That bittch needs a lesson in _________.

Don't want to write it on a public forum.

She, and the judge allowing It to go forward need to be drawn and quartered.

Family reunions should be fun from here on out...

That leaves out a step. He put the gun down, then when he heard what they wanted, he picked it up again. Then the scuffle started.

I won't argue that the law is wrong and the whole thing should have never happened. But, he was an idiot to pull a gun on 2 cops. As soon as he did that, it became self defense for the cops and they had the right to defend themselves.

I generally support cops, but I disagree with them this time for several reasons.
- They were there well outside normal hours
- Report says the gun was dropped and went off when it hit the floor. Dropping a firearm is not a capital crime, even in front of a cop.
- The cops probably have to simply serve warrants they are given, but this case is a very bad way to start enforcing the new law and certainly they have plenty of cases better than his niece called him crazy!"

Barkoff... A few questions who can issue a 5150? Will they be neutral in their opinion or do they have an axe to grind? Do you think there should be a 2nd opinion in this case? I Do! I think this can be set up and handled in such a way that abuse can be controlled or keep to an absolute minimum. The way it is now there are no safe guards or control so subject to much abuse, and absolutely goes against the constitution . As is it is now it guarantee it will have the worst possible outcome, but can be made fair to all, and I do admit that there are a few to whom this could and should apply to: but are few and far apart. Just my take on the situation. Cheers NC

Gentlemen, I am a law and order type of guy. I married into a cop family. Almost all of my in laws are cops, and I respect them. I, myself, went through the hiring process/testing for the CHP California highway patrol). I respect the law......
However, my guns are mostly hand me down guns, from family, most of them now dead. They are not just weapons, but part of my heritage, my history, and my legacy.
As a free man, I will not be parted from my guns, without due process. My kids are grown, I'm an empty nester now, and i will not risk having my guns lost, destroyed, or confiscated, by anyone. To me, they are irreplaceable.
If I were roused at 5am like the victim, I too would be armed, and expecting trouble, and there would surely be trouble, because I will not comply. It would not be not be my wisest move, it would not be the best move, and it might be my last move, but it would follow like the tide follows the moon.
Do as you will, but this is something I can not accept. If pushed down this road, there will be trouble.

Actually, they're probably not unconstitutional, but it will get litigated.

I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country. Nathan Hale

I'll go down fighting myself.
The problem is that the media and the cop sucking fudd's will say, "See, he was crazy for confronting the cops" Then they make some more laws to restrict guns and more laws to protect the traitorous cops that willingly follow unconstitutional laws.

I looked back at the story. It seems Mr. Willis' sister made the complaint and later the niece made a statement to the news media that he was not dangerous. The wee hours of the morning while it is yet dark outside are probably the worst time to execute a non-emergency warrant at a residence. Just because someone says they are the police and are dressed like police does not always make them police.

Not political?

Maybe not now, but whatever it is, if it is given the power to confiscate people's guns, it will become political. It has to. There's no alternative.

You're analyzing gun control proposals as if their purpose is to prevent people from being wounded and killed. But that's not their purpose; that's never been their purpose. You have to address them according to their real purpose, not their advertised smoke-screen purpose.

Originally, the purpose of gun-control laws was to keep guns out of the hands of black people, so that they couldn't defend themselves against pogroms from the Ku Klux Klan and other similar groups. Now it's to keep guns out of the hands of dissidents, so that they cannot substantively oppose the progressive agenda. The biggest obstacle between the socialists and where they want to be is the hundreds of millions of people in this country who believe that certain property belongs privately to them, rather than universally to the commune. The socialists have to get that property away from them. If they have guns, the progressives' job is much harder. Therefore...gun control.

Anybody who is seriously concerned about people's safety will understand immediately that you can't keep guns out of the hands of crazy people, no matter what you do. Laws don't work, doctors don't work, background checks don't work, even prisons don't always work. There are just too many available guns out there. If you're really concerned about people's safety, you'll work on the other end of the situation: not making sure the wrong people don't have guns, but making sure the right people do have guns and know how and when to use them.

You may want to Google "Shall Not Be Infringed"....