I’d rather be shot at by a cop, than a guy that shoots IPSC.
Isn’t that the truth.
There’s such a disconnect from rational thought when it comes to guns and fighting. The idea that shooting a pistol fast and accurately is some how different depending upon what the target is. I suppose it stems from ego. Most know they are not, and will not be high level competitors, but they have this belief that they really could be “good in a gunfight”. I guess the ego can’t handle the reality that if you can’t compete with them on a flat range, there’s no magic that will allow you to compete with them under “stress”. So people fabricate that the shooting is different and doesn’t translate.
Sure Usain Bolt can run 100m on a track in 9.5 seconds when there’s “no stress, but in “ real life” the fat 300 pound donut eating cop who gets out of breath walking to the mailbox, will totally dominate....
I've thought about using a carry gun with a red dot. I've been shooting Carry Optics for about 6 months and am liking it because the dot is a lot clearer for me than the front sight on an iron sighted gun. I'm still not as confident about the reliability of dots though. Maybe the new Aimpoint will change that, but I've seen a number of cases where slide mounted dots break after a few thousand rounds.
As far as competition shooters being able to shoot well in a self defense situation, I'd say they have a big advantage, because they regularly shoot under pressure and tend to have a much higher base level of skills. The range I usually shoot at is used by most of the LE in my area for training, so I see cops shoot all the time. On average, their level of skills is not very high, although the cops who also shoot in competition tend to be very skilled.
Opposing points of view, Formi's, a result of current real world experience, and the starfish's screed based on, who knows? He constantly refuses to discuss the training and background that would support his posts.
Those that believe that high level practice and gear are not beneficial need to attend a local match and see what ordinary people can accomplish. A B class shooter would be a formidable opponent in a gunfight and the big boys have to be seen to be believed. Those that shoot Production class well prove that the gun only enhances existing skills.
Does competition make a warrior, maybe not but a warrior with those skills takes his job seriously.
Airsoft can be useful for trained persons to practice FoF scenarios if realistically crafted and monitored.
Simunition training is available to civilians and instructors can be certified by Simunitions with as little as NRA instructor credentials.
There has never been a better time for the average citizen to become competent at self defense.
mike r
Don't wish it were easier Wish you were better
Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that. Craig Douglas ECQC
I should have had my “open envy” font on. I shot open class initially and as soon as I finally got it built out the way I wanted it....it was a $3k paperweight. I was young lad, 19 at the time and lived, ate, and drank the stuff. Sold everything I owned including my car....then felt the need for college instead of another 5k primers. Returned years later to Limited (STI Edge 40) then along came baby #1. Still remember the last match I was going to shoot before telling my wife that I was hanging it up. Funny, I told myself “just go slow, get A’s, and enjoy every bit of it”....
Well, schit.....almost won the damn thing. But, everything went to the blocks. The night I sold the last of my gear, I handed her an envelope full of cash and said “take what you want to get yourself something, we’ll put the rest in the bank...time for babies. That was that....
Had I never tried to run like a mad man, I’d never had to leave it. But that’s the way the cookie crumbles. You’re 100% on point with the need for open/gaming.
Open Class= F1 Limited = NASCAR Production = Saturday night dirt track
Top class is ALWAYS where the growth is and everything follows.
So now......I’m my smart years....I plink. All or nothing tends to get you nothing, and I’m all about 80% return on 20% effort.
I do watch the living schit outta F-1 racing. Damn this summer break!
My last two years on the job we started using air soft guns for force on force training. Starfish's idea that the guns dnt realisticically match the size and weight of carry firearms tells me he spends more time with his lovers dick in his hand than an actual gun. The dog airsoft guns we used were every bit as "real" feeling as the 226s we carried
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
I've thought about using a carry gun with a red dot. I've been shooting Carry Optics for about 6 months and am liking it because the dot is a lot clearer for me than the front sight on an iron sighted gun. I'm still not as confident about the reliability of dots though. Maybe the new Aimpoint will change that, but I've seen a number of cases where slide mounted dots break after a few thousand rounds.
Most dots are garbage and break in very few rounds. The Trijicon Type 2 RMR and Aimpoint Acro are the only true professional use pistol red dots right now.
Gen 3 with SI modded slide and barrel and RMR Type 2 on the right. Around 20k on the dot, well over 140,000 rounds on the pistol. On the left is the latest 19M/Gen 5 Glock with Acro. Only about 500 rounds on the gun so far. Both are quite accurate... for Glocks- 3in at 25 for 10 consistently.
Type 2 RMR’s go around 15-20k before any issues that I’ve seen. Multiple examples of Acros on Glocks, Sigs, 2011’s. 20-25k rounds. No issues other than reduced battery life.
Mike/16b,
Yep to all. Some of the best pistol shooters on the planet only train/practice with airsoft and then come to the US a week before nationals to shoot real guns a bit. They are very, very good.
Re shooting ability of competitive shooters versus military and police.... they’re so far apart it might as well not even be the same event. I have been apart of a rather large project to actually measure the military’s ability. It’s bad. The best shooters, from the absolute best 1-2 units in existence are at best C Class level UNLESS they compete outside work. The BEST special operations users are no better at shooting then what amounts to a beginner in competition.
There’s no comparison between a weekend warrior dedicated USPSA shooter, and police or military personnel. If you don’t compete- you’re probably garbage.
To clarify, the top military people can and will shoot to that level no matter what. It’s still not where it should be in general, but their skill is “durable”.
The most popular slide mounted red dot in USPSA right now is the Leupold Delta Point Pro, but I think most serious competitors have a backup so that if one goes down they can use the backup. These have a pretty wide field of view which can be important in competition. But I don't think the Leupold is a durable as the two you mention.
The most popular slide mounted red dot in USPSA right now is the Leupold Delta Point Pro, but I think most serious competitors have a backup so that if one goes down they can use the backup. These have a pretty wide field of view which can be important in competition. But I don't think the Leupold is a durable as the two you mention.
Have had boxes full of DP Pros. They last between 2k and 4K rounds on average. The newest prototypes seem to be better, but I keep in mind it’s leupold.
I will throw in something I saw (many years ago now) at a Menton Week event.
1st SFG does an event every year with the Canadian Military called Menton Week. The first one I participated in I watched an SF Team Sergeant go through approximately 2 1/2 mags of M9 ammo trying to clear a plate rack at 12 yards. This was a stage on the 3 gun match they were running. The event while fun was a testament to what Formidilosus stated about the general level of military shooting.
I also saw the same thing at the Ft Benning International Sniper Match on 3 separate occasions. Teams made up of people who competed in civilian events were levels above guys who didn't compete.
Any gun will help you become a better shooter if you use it a lot.
That includes even non firing weapons.
Even an unloaded cap gun, when using proper form and technique for practice will help you with target acquisition time, reflexes, and proper posture.
Now... The pro-grade airsofts are a good training tool. They look, function, and feel like the real weapon. But you have to have enough time with the real one too.
The most popular slide mounted red dot in USPSA right now is the Leupold Delta Point Pro, but I think most serious competitors have a backup so that if one goes down they can use the backup. These have a pretty wide field of view which can be important in competition. But I don't think the Leupold is a durable as the two you mention.
Have had boxes full of DP Pros. They last between 2k and 4K rounds on average. The newest prototypes seem to be better, but I keep in mind it’s leupold.
Never thought C-Mores would ever have any competition.
The most popular slide mounted red dot in USPSA right now is the Leupold Delta Point Pro, but I think most serious competitors have a backup so that if one goes down they can use the backup. These have a pretty wide field of view which can be important in competition. But I don't think the Leupold is a durable as the two you mention.
Have had boxes full of DP Pros. They last between 2k and 4K rounds on average. The newest prototypes seem to be better, but I keep in mind it’s leupold.
Never thought C-Mores would ever have any competition.
People still use frame mounted C-More's on open guns. The new micro dots are slide mounted so they need to be pretty light to survive all that pounding.
Miles gear Arrrgh... I used ta get into so fugging many realism arguments at AAR s with OC,s and OPFOR fuggs. Schitt like Tell me how your guy standing up behind an 8 inch jack pine hiding his miles gear behind it on his body was able to be alive after one of my 240,s layed down 5or6 7rd burst dead on him before he even got a shot off And then killed my whole crew And the OC watched it all If that was real world he woulda been full of lead and pine tree. Just schit like that.
My whole company got basically wiped out by a opfor mark 19 on Peason ridge one time AAR I said so the opfor with the oc,s approval allow a whole company to get fired up cause you guys mount a direct fire lasar system on a indirect fire wpn at 600 to 700 meters And have a saw and 240 next to it to help it fire its lasar faster due to it's slow rate of fire.
I was told to shut up... I brought it up to the division CSM when he showed days later Direct fire LOS lasar on a indirect fire wpn system and how it was bullschitt ( also helped the DIV CSM was one of my PSG,s back in the day and didnt play bullschitt games...
The opfor mk19 ceased to exist about a week later. Then......
The opfor bubbafied made a quad .50 in the back of a fugging ice cream truck as spite in its place With 4 miles lasers on it Just some schit they threw together with spare barrels and mounted on a .50 Tripod and T&E welded to the floor of the truck And a fugging gas gun activating the lasars.. Fugging wpn system dont even exist anymore.
Fughing quad 50 in the back of a ice cream truck GMAFB...
Used ta get guys pcs into line dog world from opfor units Most were not worth a schit and didnt know squat. Specially ones that been their as their 1st duty station. Get a fugging e5 or e6 opfor type. I had pfc,s and spc,s that knew more about TTP,s than them
Do their one year of line time , get their nco ER and do everything they could to leave the line.
Rant about opfor over... Hahahaha!!!!
Ultimate air soft is 9mm and 5.56 blue bullets at shugart gordon at Polk Or Pat Cassidy on ftcky Getting hit with outside of the armour like on the legs Shin bone or knee cap espeically
FUGGING SUCKS...
Thank god we didnt have 7.62 blue bullets M240,s only had blanks thank god.
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