Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles what would you chose for a longer range upper, and why?

I have an AR-15.450BUSHMASTER for short range rifle, compliant with Ohio deer hunting regs. Ohio requires a straight wall cartridge (or tapered) from .357-.50 call.
However, I will, at some point, have a second upper for longer range shooting. Of the available chamberings for a AR-15, what would you recommend? Not looking for specific brands, but best overall choice from a practically standpoint, costs, availability,
My first thought, was just the standard 5.56, but is there a better choice?
Your opinions please.
Edit: I should also state, that mags should be the same standard size, such as the 5.56
(A standard mag with a different follower, is a 10 rd. .450 Bushmaster mag as a single stack.)

6.5 Grendell, or 6mm Grendel, is mo betta for long range than the 223/5.56.

Some people like the 6.5 Creedmoor in the AR-10 format. That's just a little heavy for me.

I have a 12" 6.5 Grendel, and run it with a can. Light and compact.

I am wondering how much better a 12" 6.5 Grendel could be than a 20" 5.56 with proper bullets?

What velocity, bullet and all that stuff?

When I go to the "ballistic" app, and select for "best flatness" for the 223 and the 6.5 Grendel, I get the 55 grain Hornady VMAX Superperformance and the 100 grain Wolf FMJ-BT.

Trajectory seems to be similar out to 600 yards, but the Grendel has 818ft-lbs energy at 600 while the 223 has just 306 ft-lbs.

For any "serious LR" shooting with the 5.56 / 223, a 77 gr bullet would make more sense than using a 53 gr for any kind of analysis.

To the OP: Just depends on your objectives & what you consider LR..............

A lot can be accomplished with a 223 Wylde chambered gun & good 69 & 77 grain bullets at mag length, which are easily purchased & readily available (for now) or hand-loaded.

Or if you want to step it up, the the 224 Valkyrie might be your huckleberry on a small frame.

MM

Hadn't thought of the Valkyrie. That's a good solution.

Is that counting barrel length and chrono'd velocity or just punched in numbers?

I just went to the app and selected as shown. The app populated velocity and BC. I didn't change anything the app provided.

David - we've discussed my 12.5" Grendel a couple times IIRC, so I can comment from experience - compared to a 75/77gr 5.56, the short Grendel with the 123 ELD (or something similar) has a lot more drop, but a lot less wind drift and more power on target at distance. Because of the reduced wind drift, it's a lot easier to hit with at distance than my 16" 5.56, especially in changing conditions. It's kind of fun to dial in a bunch of drop or hold over at 600-ish yards and drop those slow heavy bullets on target. (relatively to a 5.56 anyway)
Some numbers you can use for comparison:
123gr ELDM - 2350 fps
75gr BTHP - 2680 fps (add maybe 50-100 fps for a 20" if you want)

You won't have much luck at all with 55gr 5.56 at distance; way too much variation in the wind.


My personal experience is that for long distance in a small frame AR, the 243 LBC and other 6mm Grendel-based wildcats outrun everything else I've compared. They also have more room in the magazine to play with seating depth and chasing the lands. I have not shot a Valkyrie side by side with my 243, but on paper the real world velocity and b.c. numbers don't seem quite as good (the early published numbers appear to have been pretty optimistic). Only advantage I see to the V is factory ammo, if that's your thing.
A couple of my 243 LBC loads to compare, if you want to play with a ballistic calculator:
95gr VLD-H - 2930 fps
105gr BTHP - 2800 fps

(All of my numbers above are for sea level or very close to it.)

I do not yet reload, so factory ammo may be a factor. It is my intention to start reloading for .450 Bushmaster, 9mil luger, and whatever rifle is decided upon, but currently I have no equipment, and very little reloading experience. (Mostly watching others).
That .224 Valkyrie looks interesting, but nearly as expensive to shoot as the .450B. Hopefully, reloading will make ammo a bit less expensive.
Grendel has also crossed my mind.

I need to scope a 6mm Grendel barrel or build upper.

Where to look?

So with all the new gun legislation in WA recently being enacted, are you guys going to have to get permission slips to buy or build a new one now?

MM

Thanks, I kind of pay attention to what you and a few others post but I'm sometimes a little slow... If you were getting those numbers with a 12" barrel vs a 20", I thought I might need to look a little closer.

Washington state is still trying to figure things out. Fully assembled MSRs get slammed with new fees, additional paperwork and wait times. Until state figures things out, stripped lowers and builds get a free pass and are transferred with a 4473 and fed background check.

Not much. Probably falls flat on its face where a heavy .223 cal would surpass it. Id be looking at something like the 77 TMK in the 556 and call it a day.

That 243 must have similar case capacity as my 6WOA .

Look for something that has a good track record in regards to long range precision. That will take a little research. I went with a 6WOA, because John Holliger designed it and competed with it. Its not supposed to be finicky. The one i have is a little on the finicky side though, but i took it out yesterday and did some ladder testing. Switched powders and its showing some promise:

Nah, see my post above. The slow Grendel drops more but outperforms heavy 5.56 in pretty much every other way, even from my short 12.5" barrel. I didn't think that would be the case until I built one and started shooting it, but time behind the rifle shows what's what.



Case capacity is similar, but the short Grendel case leaves a lot more room in the magazine for long bullets, which is important for a long range gun. Long VLD style bullets are no problem at all in my 243 LBC with ASC mags; my 95gr VLD load above is only seated out to 2.235", with room to go out to ~2.310" if I need to.
I would guess that same bullet or anything longer in your 6mm WOA would choking up pretty close to the ogive, if it fits at all; are you able to use it?

Keep in mind the 6mm Grendel-based wildcats are essentially the old 6mm PPC accuracy champ set up for heavy bullets and with the shoulder bumped forward slightly.

The other part of my preference is that I've had much better luck with quality and longevity of Grendel brass than I have with SPC brass.

Thats good info yondering. Your 243 is a shooter too.

I think I was editing while you replied, see the question I added above about your WOA. Are you pretty limited in selection of long heavy bullets for that one?