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Lyman 358429 #13971747 07/13/19
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RiverRider Offline OP
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I've cast for several decades and have had pretty decent success over the years. My first mold for .38/.357 was a 358156 and I never had any real trouble getting acceptable results shooting that bullet. For .41 I started out with a 410610, and it has been an excellent bullet for my Model 57.

Several years ago I started thinking about getting away from gas checked designs, so my first .44 mold was a 429421 and here again results have been fine and I'm leaving well enough alone.

My revolver line-up has changed and now my only .357 is a sweet little 4-5/8" flat-top 3-screw Blackhawk. Rather than cast any 358156 for it, I bought a 358429 mold to see about getting away from gas checked bullets. Results with the 358429 have been very bad for the most part. I occasionally get a group that looks encouraging, but there is no consistency and I'm beginning to wonder about the design. I could go out and cast some of the gas checked bullets for it and find out for myself how it will shoot them but I'm not wild about the idea of casting in 95+ degree weather out in my garage.

I have tried AA 4100 from 12.2 to 13.8 grains, CSB-1 from 4.8 to 6.0 grains (just to see if a faster burning powder would make a difference---and it did NOT), and 2400 from 11.4 to 13.0 grains. There have been occasional 2-inch groups at 25 yards but nothing better, and nothing repeatable. Most loads shoot three inches and many times much worse than that.


So, is there something about the 358429 that I should know? Am I pissing up a rope with the 358429?


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Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: RiverRider] #13975913 07/14/19
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Creeker Offline
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I've had good luck with the 358429 but that doesn't mean you will. There are many people who have never been able to get it to work.

As a side you can now get a non-gas check version of the 358156 which could be your answer. And though you didn't ask I've had very good results with the NOE 360-160-WFN.


Joshua 1:9
Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: RiverRider] #13976094 07/14/19
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HawkI Offline
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The best 358429 doesn't drop out of a Lyman mould; NOE makes it.

Newish Lymans aren't always square and if you see it with the naked eye before you run it through a die, it isn't the bullet design.

Base first, misaligned sizing might also be suspect.

I've run the NOE version in 67's 14's, 15's, Colt Officers Models and a 38/44, on top of a King Cobra and a 28 with 38 cases. If it were the bullet design, I've never had a problem.



Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: HawkI] #13976146 07/14/19
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Idaho1945 Offline
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That Lyman mould is the very first one I bought way back in the 60's & it has always shot well for me in many, many different 38's & 357's. You don't say what you're sizing your bullets to, or what size your cylinder throats are, you might look there for the problem. I've taken a lot of small game, hundreds, maybe thousands of ground squirrels using 5.2 grs of Unique in 38 special cases with the above bullet. Also a couple of deer although I like using bigger calibers for big game. I also took my one & only Mountain Lion with that bullet, up close & personal!
Check those throats.

Dick

Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: Idaho1945] #13976847 07/15/19
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Originally Posted by Idaho1945
I also took my one & only Mountain Lion with that bullet, up close & personal!


Dick


That's interesting.


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Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: RiverRider] #13976877 07/15/19
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Creeker Offline
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This is the one I used for years. It shot great in both my S&W 19 & 586.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Creeker; 07/15/19.

Joshua 1:9
Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: Creeker] #13977359 07/15/19
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30Gibbs Offline
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Originally Posted by Creeker
This is the one I used for years. It shot great in both my S&W 19 & 586.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



My 40 year old Lyman 358429 mold works well like Creekers. As mentioned newer Lyman molds can be undersized.
Try adding a bit of tin to your mix and see if you get slightly large diameter bullets before giving up on your Lyman mold

I like loading it under 4.5 to 5grains of old unique in .38 Special cases for long range shooting, white rocks being the targets of choice.

In .357 cases 5.5 to 6 grains of Unique or 11 grains of 2400 shoot well too.

Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: RiverRider] #13977890 07/15/19
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RiverRider Offline OP
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Thanks for the replies, gentlemen.

I have to admit to being lazy...I know the things to check, but casting has always been an easy thing and I never had any trouble with accuracy before. I guess I was fishing for non-existent common knowledge to the effect of "the 358429 just won't work in an old Blackhawk because...

I am sizing lubing on a 450 using a .358" sizing die and White Label 50/50 lube. I removed the cylinder from my revolver and inserted bullets as cast into the throats, and I got a light interference fit on all of the chambers. It's hard to say exactly what my alloy is because it is a batch that has been evolving since the early 90s, but I can say it has yielded good results with other bullets in its most recent iteration. I would estimate I'm running about 3% tin and about 2.5% antimony. I do homogenize the entire batch every time I add to it.

I rolled some of the bullets as cast across the my benchtop and could see no oddities.

I will go back and try the 11.0 grains of 2400 suggestion. That seems like a pretty light load that doesn't burn too clean, but I do happen to have stuff to clean guns and don't mind if they get dirty...within reason, of course.
crazy

Thanks again for the comments!


Life Member NRA, Texas State Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation, & GOA

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Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: RiverRider] #13978288 07/15/19
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Creeker Offline
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Let us know how it goes.


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Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: RiverRider] #13978731 07/15/19
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Glad to hear they fit the throats nicely. That's something a lot of guys overlook. Next thought: what's the groove diameter? If the throats are smaller than barrel groove diameter, accuracy will suffer. (That's not an unheard of situation in old Rugers.) Throats gotta be at least the same as groove diameter, or better yet slightly bigger. If such isn't the case with this gun I'll retreat to the corner and await the solution!


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
Bravo

Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: RiverRider] #13979040 07/16/19
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I lubed the remaining 150 or so bullets last night so I can try that 11.0 grain charge of 2400 and maybe try some W231 or some Universal also. I could try some Bullseye too, but just to see if SOMETHING will work.

I'll slug the bore tonight and see about that groove diameter. I guess I may end up sending the cylinder off to have the throats opened up, then look for a .359" mold...I've never tried modifying a mold, but maybe that's an option if the groove diameter is greater than the current throat diameter. On second thought, I think I'd rather modify the mold than the gun. Maybe I'll get off my dead ass and cast some 358156s before screwing with anything else.

Incidentally, I checked the bore for leading and it looks clean as a whistle other than powder fouling.

I appreciate all the comments and suggestions!


Life Member NRA, Texas State Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation, & GOA

“Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.”

― Charles J. Chaput
Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: RiverRider] #13979122 07/16/19
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I never thought I had trouble with the 358429, cast and shot thousands with an old single cavity Lyman. Until I started shooting longer range regularly. I started a thread here a while back about it, they shoot fine until I stretch it out to 75 yards or more. Then I get really erratic flyers, like 2’ off in any direction flyers. I haven’t really tried to sort it out yet, I’ve been busy and it’s been hot. But I did buy a 38-150KT RCBS mold as one possible solution. I’ll start casting more this fall when it cools down a little and maybe get to the bottom of it, or maybe just go with the RCBS.

Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: RiverRider] #13980070 07/16/19
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mathman Offline
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Originally Posted by RiverRider
I lubed the remaining 150 or so bullets last night so I can try that 11.0 grain charge of 2400 and maybe try some W231 or some Universal also. I could try some Bullseye too, but just to see if SOMETHING will work.

I'll slug the bore tonight and see about that groove diameter. I guess I may end up sending the cylinder off to have the throats opened up, then look for a .359" mold...I've never tried modifying a mold, but maybe that's an option if the groove diameter is greater than the current throat diameter. On second thought, I think I'd rather modify the mold than the gun. Maybe I'll get off my dead ass and cast some 358156s before screwing with anything else.

Incidentally, I checked the bore for leading and it looks clean as a whistle other than powder fouling.

I appreciate all the comments and suggestions!


Check out this guy:

http://www.hollowpointmold.com/band-modifications/?picture=487


"In the real world, think of the 6.5 Creedmoor as the modernized/standardized/optimized version of the 6.5x55/.260." John Barsness 2019
Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: RiverRider] #13980268 07/16/19
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RiverRider Offline OP
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Thanks mathman, I'm going to look that over in detail when I can get to my PC. Great link!


Life Member NRA, Texas State Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation, & GOA

“Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.”

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Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: TheKid] #13981297 07/16/19
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Originally Posted by TheKid
I never thought I had trouble with the 358429, cast and shot thousands with an old single cavity Lyman. Until I started shooting longer range regularly. I started a thread here a while back about it, they shoot fine until I stretch it out to 75 yards or more. Then I get really erratic flyers, like 2’ off in any direction flyers. I haven’t really tried to sort it out yet, I’ve been busy and it’s been hot. But I did buy a 38-150KT RCBS mold as one possible solution. I’ll start casting more this fall when it cools down a little and maybe get to the bottom of it, or maybe just go with the RCBS.



Flyers at longer ranges usually reveal a flaw in the mould or in the sizing process. Sometimes it can be in the casting process if the mould and alloy aren't at the right temp.
If sizing base first, especially with a Keith design, you won't detect misalignment very easily, whether dropping from the mould or after the sizing process, and if its in the mould at the nose, a runout gauge is the best way to find if its an issue.

Bullets with long, unsupported noses that are unconcentric basically create a yaw that rifling can only hide briefly, but the same ones that are concentric will be ballistically superior and often much more accurate at long range over more blunt or lighter weight designs.



Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: RiverRider] #13990070 07/20/19
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RiverRider Offline OP
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I pounded a swaged bullet down a bit to get it swaged to about 0.360" and then pounded it through the bore of my Blackhawk. I found that the slug slips through the six chamber mouths of the cylinder with only very light resistance. It's my feeling that the chamber mouths match the groove diameter of the gun very closely based on this little experiment.

I'll load up that 11.0-grain 2400 load and try it, and if that doesn't work I'll cast some 358156 and try them with three or four powders. If I find nothing that shoots well, I might have someone take a look at my Blackhawk. If the 358156 shoots well, I'll either have the 358429 mold worked over or shop for an alternative sans gas checks.

I'll update this thread as I try to work this out.

Thanks to all!


Life Member NRA, Texas State Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation, & GOA

“Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.”

― Charles J. Chaput
Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: RiverRider] #14052293 08/15/19
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If you decided you wanted modify your mold, larger diameter this thread below was interesting. I have never tried this, so, but, it may have merit.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?257858-Expanding-a-boolit-mould-the-quot-WEET-quot-method-(In-parts)

Last edited by KnightHawk; 08/15/19.
Re: Lyman 358429 [Re: KnightHawk] #14053430 08/15/19
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RiverRider Offline OP
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Originally Posted by KnightHawk
If you decided you wanted modify your mold, larger diameter this thread below was interesting. I have never tried this, so, but, it may have merit.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?257858-Expanding-a-boolit-mould-the-quot-WEET-quot-method-(In-parts)



Great info...thanks!

I think I shot again after my last post here in this thread, and the results were miserable as ever. I didn't even measure groups, I just made a notation next to all the load information that says "GARBAGE." I intend to cast some 358156s and try them out---I have not shot the revolver with anything other than the 358429s. If it likes the lighter gaschecked bullet, maybe I'll work over the non-GC mold. If nothing else I just might learn something. Sure hope it don't hurt! laugh


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