Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Lyman Great Plains Rifle = Junk

Years ago, I looked at several and wanted one because they were close to a real Hawken, as close as you can get in a factory piece.

Well I recently bought a left hand .54 caliber percussion model from Midway and my disappointment is palpable.

Wood to metal fit is terrible. The stock is stained so dark it looks like they painted black, then sort of wiped it off leaving the dark color behind. The lock appears to have been finished with a file, by a [bleep] and the barrel won't fit the stock until some wood is removed.

Midway won't take returns on muzzleloaders, so I'm stuck with it I guess. If it shoots well, some of my frustration will be negated, but it is still ugly as homemade soap.

I should have saved the money and put it towards one of W.B.Selb's rifles.

Live and learn.

Quality may have dropped off. The one I have (But haven't fired in years) was pretty accurate and the wood to metal was pretty good. I didn't have to do anything more to it to get shooting 'cept load powder, ball and cap. Shot great.

yea they all are ugly turds.

I would have liked to handle one before I bought it, but muzzleloaders are selling like used condoms since single shot centerfire rifles were declared "primitive weapons[". And left handed = nonexistent in LGSs.

Well I dunno if he’s still taking orders, but Mr. Selb builds a fine rifle. My old compadre had one of his rifles.

I have the Lyman GP “Hunter” Model in .54 Cal (Fast Twist) I was somewhat disappointed with this one as well, But after some Modifications, and tinkering with it i have learned to like it. The Crescent Butt Plate on mine was Sharp Enough to Gut, and Skin a Deer, That was 1 of the very first things i changed, I removed it, Rounded the Knife edge off, Reblued it and installed a Leather Lace Up Pad. The Rifling in my Gun is SHARP.
Back when I bought this one I really wanted a Green Mountain LRH .54 Cal Barrel (1:28 Fast Twist) To fit in a TC Renegade, or .54 Cal Hawken Stock, But the 54 LRH Barrels were LITERALLY Scarce as Hens teeth, I could find the .45s and 50s all day, any day, But NOT 1 single .54 GM LRH in nearly 3 Years of DAILY searching! I finally gave up and Bought the Lyman Plains, 1 week after Buying the Lyman i found a GM LRH in .54 Cal on Gunbroker, Brand new from an Estate, I hit the BUY IT NOW 👍

If it wasn’t for my Lyman GP “Hunter” Shooting so well, i could EASILY Let it go and never think about it again, But this Rifle Shoots INCREDIBLY Good, as good as ANY Muzzleloader i own (and that’s a BUNCH)



This is the kind of accuracy i get from mine at 50-60 Yards, from 450 Grain Bullets to 650 Grain, Hard or Soft lead it doesn’t matter, The Rifle FLAT OUT Shoots 👍 It will Hold it’s own with ANYTHING i have


Like i said, mine has SHARP Rifling, Looking down the Bore resembles Shark, or Alligator Teeth 😁 Cuts through my Patches and Scars the Jag

Sorry to hear that. Mine is a jewel and shoots bug hole groups. Everyone I know who has one loves them. And I agree a custom Hawken such as those built by Selb are much better , for four times the price.

I am happy that I got a TC Hawken used for 350 with tax. It is used, does not shoot as good as Idaho Lewis's group but it is good enough for now. I dont get upset with ugly guns as long as they shoot. I can't stand low quality craftsmanship however. They are made with CNC machines, how hard can it be? Stupid Italians, ( I'm Italian so I can say it without being called racist .) Take a 150 yr old Muzzloader and the craftsmanship is remarkable for that day and age. If it shoots , keep it. I also dont understand why they make the lands so sharp. It is not supposed to tear the patch.

I have one, haven't had a chance to shoot it. Didn't draw the blackpowder tag I put in for so there's not a lot of pressure this year. If I have time to sight in, etc I may take it hunting in regular deer or elk season. If not, no big deal. It's a .54 caliber flint round ball gun. I know what you mean, the butt plate is sharp enough to skin a deer with. Wood to metal fit isn't anything to write home about but doesn't look as bad as yours sounds. I would not want to shoot that skinny butt hooked metal thing on a gun meant for conicals. With lighter loads and patched round balls I think it'll be ok.

I'm gettin' to the point, though, that I could just about quit muzzleloading and never look back. I started out on TC sidelocks and they were pretty fine guns. The market has gone to hell, what's left is pretty low quality trash, unless you get into more more money than I think a muzzleloader is worth. I'm not interested in spending more for a muzzeloader to get what should be entry level quality than I have to spend on a bolt action to be in the top 5%. It's b-u-l-l-s-h-i-t. Now that I've moved 45 minutes outside the unit with a ML hunt instead of living inside it, my patience for dealing with b-u-l-l-s-h-i-t is dwindling fast.

(Oops, got distracted ... little fawn just ran by the window. Cool.)

I would, however, really like to kill an elk with a traditional muzzleloader before i quit, it's a bucket list item.

Tom

I will have to take a file to that cresent butt plate. The wood is about 1/8" proud around the action, including the top of the wrist, not sure if I want to deal with that.

Should have bought one 30 years ago I guess.

Here are my two "junk" GP rifles. The color is OK with me and the fit & finish is just fine. I've sold and traded off a lot of different muzzle loaders, but I'll never let go of these two.

not surprised, the rifles lyman has been turning out lately have been very poor quality. Even a friend of mine bought a GPR earlier this year and he had over 1/8" wood all around everything on the stock. The triggers on them as well are very poor.

Well, does the rifle shoot or doesnt it shoot? That is the question.
There is not a whole lot of choice out there for $500 gun is there? If so , I am all ears. I dont need another, but another would be nice.

Buy the kit and make your own. - it’s what I did... sucker shoots too.

The $500 factory built lyman is no more LOL. My buddy paid $650 for his.

The GPR stock has an oil finish. Wipe it down with denatured alcohol. That will lighten the color somewhat. Then lightly go over the stock with 220 grit wet-dry sand paper which will lighten the color further. Don't sand into the low spots to avoid worsening those low spots. Then wipe the stock down with Ballistol.

Replace the Lyman double set triggers with the Davis Deerslayer double set trigger. The stock trigger is okay if shooting with the rear trigger set.

The sear spring is way, way, way to stiff/strong for shooting with just the front trigger (unset). Replace it with a lighter spring. Some ink pen springs are of the correct diameter but most are too large.

The wood on my GPR is not perfect but I can live with it. Mine is an accurate Flintlock.

I've got a couple of Lyman GPs. One fast twist and one slow twist and have good accuracy with each. I find them as good or better than my TC sidelocks and certainly better than the entry level sidelocks by most other makers. If you want better quality step up to a Pedersoli. I got a great Pedersoli flintlock a couple of years ago new for $550 at Cabelas. Good deals can be found if you are diligent without stepping up to a custom gun. Right now the ARs and long range guns have captivated the market so you can find a used sidelocks most anywhere. If you know what to look for you can find a lot of good deals on used guns out there.

Sharp rifling problems can be solved with a tight-fitting patch on a cleaning jag and some valve grinding compound, plus a couple of hours of lapping. Harden the frizzen and use a good quality English flint, and/or just install a Chambers "gunsmith" lock with the side plate contoured to match the shape of the factory lock plate. Real BP shooters use "rocks what'll spark"- - - -not percussion caps!
Jerry

I got a Lyman .50 flint GPR kit back in the 80s. It still is a great shooter. I didn't stain it but went with the natural wood.

I only have one eye, the left one. I don't want to shoot a right handed muzzleloader, flint or percussion, left handed. That limits the selection bigly.

I have the misfortune of a Lyman GPR also. Mine came with what can only be described as a lock with sand for a lubricant, a gap between frizzen and pan that Lyman should be ashamed of, and a barrel with the serial number smack in the center of the recall group. Well, the lock was easy, an L&R took care of that, and while reinletting for it, I shifted the flash hole liner to a more advantageous position.

The barrel is another story. The original barrel didn't settle in for a little over 200 rounds, then only marginally accurate, a 50 yard gun at best. The recall seemed like a blessing in disquise, untill I shot it. The replacement barrel blew holes clean through any patch I used, totally unhuntable. Rifling is so sharp you might cut yourself looking at it. Tried xxxx steel wool, no help. polishing compound, no help. Scotchbrite on a 50 cal jag, (GPR is a 54), no help.

Finally someone on another forum suggested valve grinding compound to fire lap the barrel. He gave instructions as to how he did it, and it at last would group! Three days running I got 1/2"-3/4" three shot 50 yard groups cold and clean. Took it on our Pa flintlock hunt. Missed a good doe at 66 yds, for no known reason. Back to the range.

The sight-in WAS 1" high @ 50 YDS, NOW 5"high @ 50 YDS. But it still grouped. The rifle still feels rough loading it, but I'm a bit apprehensive about any more firelapping, maybe more "patched ball lapping" will finish breaking it in.......MAYBE.


To anyone thinking about buying a new Lyman I would suggest finding an alternative brand, one that comes able to shoot groups out of the box.....It's a shame T/C dropped out of the side lock market.

I have a new in the box 54 caliber Deerstaker and it is pretty nice for a factory rifle. I guess it is 15 years old. I even bought factory peep sights for it. I should give it a run, but I have a handful to keep me busy.

Took my Traditions Pa Pellet over to the gun club yesterday instead of going deer hunting, (that Lyman GPR is NOT reliable), and went about working up a round ball load for it. It's a 50 Cal, 1:48 twist, so I figured even though it's allowed a 150Gr Max charge,the little round ball should be more accurate with a light charge.

Swabbing between shots with 91% alcohol, I managed an accurate load at 75grs FFG, .490 round ball, abd a .015 Ox Yoke wonder lubed patch. Sighted in at a 50 yd zero I headed home, gave it a thorough cleaning, let it cool to outside temperature then back to the bench to verify the guns sight-in cold and clean. In under a single day this $300 flintlock out performed the Lyman GPR in both accuracy and dependability! The ball went smack into the center of the group fired that morning.

Lyman has no right to be selling flintlocks for such a high price especially so when they aren't even "finished". PURE JUNK IMO!

Lyman GPR flint. .490 LRB, 0.010 patch, 90 grs. Goex FFg
Buckhorn sights. 100 yards benched. Three shots for a competition.

That is a pretty nice group! Wish my 54 GPR could consistantly do that. The Traditions Pa Pellet does about 3/4". @ 50yds. Nowhere near as impressive as your 50 GPR @ 100!

Don't ever give that shooter up!

I have a LH Lyman Deerstalker .54 cal flintlock. No complaints with fit and finish. Won't claim it meets the standards set by custom builders but it's pretty nicely put together. Purchased it in 2008. Sorry to hear yours doesn't live up to expectations. Do you think you can correct some of its ills yourself? Obviously not ideal, but if you can you will be happier when it is all said and done and may even bond with it for the work put into it.

I've been reading many posts about older Lymans getting superb accuracy without any issues getting there. The fit and finish on mine was never any problem, save having to relocate the flash hole location for caplock like ignition. The lack of repeatable accuracy is the dificulty that has forced me to place the GPR in the gunsafe until our flintlock deer season is over.My old PA Pellet is dependable enough to get me to the end of the season on 1/25/20,

At that point I'm hoping to figure something out with the headache rifle, either put another hundred rounds through it, maybe try using automotive rubbing compound as a patch lube for 15 or 20 rounds to try to polish that ever coarse rifling, or use it a a tomatoe stake if all else fails......which is really looking like the answer at the moment.

I'm glad for you that your Lyman is obviously an acceptably accurate shooter, and wish you many, many more years of it being that way. Thank you for the support! I realize I am very new to Campfire, but I truely do believe it's a great forum with wonderful members!

Back in the early ‘80’s we sold beaucoup Lyman GPR’s. They were a quality rifle and a good shooter/hunter. The only thing I found wrong with them is apparently the adjustment screw for the set triggers was more ornamental that functional. A longer screw cured that situation.

Another thing was many customers wanted a traditional fixed rear sight. The sight that I found the most adaptable and accurate was this one sold by the Kindig’s of Log Cabin shop. Lodi Ohio



I cut the base down to proper dimensions and fitted to existing dovetail. It made for a good sturdy sight. I have lost all touch in the past 35 years of just what is available anymore in the way of a factory gun. I just pay little attention to them.

I keep hearing about the older Lymans being of such quality, from fit and finish to outstanding accuracy that guys sometimes bought one rather than spaend the extra money on a custom gun. I don't dispute that notion at all, I only wish I had gotten one when they were truley worth the money, time, and effort myself!

As I mentioned in earlier posts, mine wears an L&R lock, (I love it), and a replacement barrel from the recall thing. As for sights, I have the Lyman peep set up,and from the few times this GPR shot accurately, the peep set up was worth the cost.

My muzzleloaders were mostly caplock untill about 7 years ago when the bug bit me to try flints, and I like them alot, just not this GPR. I had all T/C's, refitted with Green Mountain barrels, and they shot right out of the box no problems. T/C decided to get away from sidelocks before I got my first flinter, hence the Traditions Pa Pellet, which also was a good shooter right off, no real break-in, just find the perferred load, go out and harvest deer.

The fire lapping I did on the GPR helped quite a lot, but the rifle accuracy still has some consistantcy issues to work out, and just before getting on the forum I used some Turtlewax rubbing compound, lapping by hand, hot water bath, then Turtlewax polishing compound followed by another solid cleaning. As of now, I'm allowing the Birchwood Casey Barricade to thoroughly dry before seeing how it did.....once Barricade dries, there isn't any need to do any more than load, run a single dry patch down to remove excess lube from the patch, and fire. That manages first shot accuracy matching the following group.

If this works out, I might just have a dependable flintlock.......if not, I'm VERY open to suggestions, or using it as a tomatoe stake next spring!

I have an older GPR .50 flint that I bought while in high school that I think I paid around 350 for! The fit and finish were very good and it worked and shot well. Sadly, I ruined the original barrel with one of those "unbreakable" ram rods because I didnt know any better. It now wears a green mountain barrel and an LR lock, but it shot better with the original barrel when it was new..

Just this past October I ordered a .54 flint GPR and it was junk! Wood was proud of the metal work by A LOT!! I returned it for a full refund. I bought it on the reputation of my original GPR, but sadly, I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments of this thread stating the newer ones have serious issues, and invest arms should be ashamed of putting out a product of such poor fit and finish!

I hope I don’t come across as an elitist or snob. Certainly not the intent. But when it comes to flintlocks, I shy away from ALL production rifles. Every one! I would save a few more bucks and get one from a reputable maker. Or build my own from scratch. The lock is the heart of a flinter, IMHO. No cutting corners if you want a good one.

Juse my opinion. 😉

Back in the day the Lyman Great Plains Rifle was a Cadillac in my neck of the woods, but like other manufacturers probably got sold to an investment company and they put together a team to see how cheap they could make something and layed off the quality control department.

Had a Lyman GPR about 20 years ago. It was actually very accurate. But the quality sucked, IMO.

Sold it and bought a TC .54 Cal Hawken. Much better quality and every bit as accurate.

I would really be interested in where you located a Green Mountain barrel for your GPR. I've been looking around the internet but haven't had any success finding one. If this final attempt at smoothing the rifling fails, I'll have to accept the barrel is just too poor to straighten it out, and since Lyman hasn't answered my emails, they obviously have no intention of doing anything at all about it.

Not really anything pertaining to just GPR’s but,,,,

I would add to my above statement that probably the best thing to come along for production flint lock rifles have been the L&R replacement locks. With one caveat. As long as the touch hole lines up in it’s appropriate spot in relation to the flashpan. This seems to be the issue with many production rifles.

I have a Cabelas marked Investarms and its a beautifully made gun. I love my T/C's but this one has them beat

You will likely find them from Track Of The Wolf. I got mine there. It's for my TC Hawken. It is a 50 cal. 1/66" twist. It is more accurate than the TC barrel , however, the original was 1/48" . The Gren Mountain was $286 wit shipping. Not bad at all and fit perfect.

Thanks ihookem, I bought my L&R locks through Track, and they're my source for flints as well. I don't do quite as well on the internet as these younger guys do, (I'm a dinosaur!), so I guess I missed seeing them on the website.

I'm heading to the club this morning to check out the Tomatoe Stake for the last time. If the polish job did any good I'll have a really interesting nickname for the GPR, (My Renegade is called "Mabel"), if not, Track will be geting another call about a Green Mountain replacement.

On the hopeful side, all that I have done to the GPR is mostly from those ideas from 24Hour Campfire posts, and I would be pleased to outline it here for anyone on the forum with the same misfortune to at least have a chance to get the "junk" usable! THANK YOU TO EVERYONE FOR ALL THE HELP!!!!!

Well, this is likely my last post on the Lyman GPR. Lyman made no response, nothing tried has managed to smooth the rifling, there is no hunting accuracy with the replacement barrel, and, finally, there is no replacement barrels available for the GPR rifle other thand the Lyman.

$650 for the rifle, $200 for the lock (which is great incidently), and April>January trying to shoot it in. You know what they say, you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear, or a decent flintlock from a Lyman.

Thanks all for tring to help

Sorry, mine are a great shooters, fit and finish is very good! Got two, I bought one with a bad barrel and had a Green Mountain barrel fitted to Lyman breech plug. It is a .54 with 1:66 twist. I stripped the blue from all the metal and browned it myself, left the nose cap and the wedge plates in the white. One of my favorites. I don't shoot muzzle loaders much so don't want to spent a couple grand on a full custom, so this will do!

You will likely find them from Track Of The Wolf. I got mine there. It's for my TC Hawken. It is a 50 cal. 1/66" twist. It is more accurate than the TC barrel , however, the original was 1/48" . The Gren Mountain was $286 wit shipping. Not bad at all and fit perfect.
[/quote

The Green Mountain barrel replacement sold by The Track Of the Wolf will not fit the Lyman Great Plains Rifle. They only fit the T/C's , never offered by Green Mountain. The Lyman has two wedge lugs, the T/C has only one. I had to had and old black powder smith make my a barrel using the Lyman breech plug and other furniture from the Lyman barrel. Very expensive today, got a price to build a .58 caliber from The Track Of The Wolf and had to pass due to cost. Too bad my guy that did the work retired! The Green Mountain barrels sold by The Track Of The Wolf may fit the Lyman Trade Rifle witch uses a single wedge lug and is shorter than the Great Plains Rifle at 28". I think there is some confusion on the Lyman models.

Switch , you could be right. There is a guy somewhere that will bore it out but you will get a 54 cal.. Not the end of the world. Then you can get any twist you want and likely a better cut barrel, unless the steel is junk too.

Check Bob Hoyt for a re-bore.

Well guys, I'm back again, but this time with a possible solution for those unfortunate souls stuck with a Lyman tomatoe stake.

Never did get my GPR to do what I bought it for, so I checked out drop in barrels, from Track,(John said they don't make them for the GPR),and anyone else other than Lyman. I then came across the idea of trying to get a custom muzzleloader smithie to rebarrel the one I have. Well, I found one willing to do it. He said it would be a month to get it done, with a premium barrel, and once I get it back I plan on reporting the result here.

This may be the single way to get the Lymans of recent manufacture to shoot. Lyman was lightning fast to cover themselves from the liabilities of defefective guns blowing up, but when it comes to standing behind their products.....well, I still haven't gotten an email reply.....

Thanks to all who have tried to help out us tomatoe stake owners!

I bought a .54 GPR used last fall at a good price. Supposedly was fired twice. The barrel was rough inside with tool marks. About 200 strokes with JB Bore Paste smeared over scotch brite pad and she was smooth. Went from 8" group at 50 yds to 1" using 70 gr. ffg and .530 roundball. I presume it was tearing patches before the polishing. Works great now, and I will keep it. Only other complaint I had was the buttplate being sharp along the lower edge, also an easy fix.

For target grade ML barrels, get in touch with Ed Rayl in Gassaway West Virginia. He will build an octagon barrel to any length up to 48", and any dimension across the flats up to 1 1/8", with just about any twist rate you want. He has built several chunk gun barrels for me, and they've all been exceptionally accurate. I shoot the biggest .50 caliber round ball barrel he makes, with a 1:66" twist, 48" long. The rifle weighs 18 lbs., is nearly 6 feet long, and is a flintlock. "Over the Log" shoots, only!
Jerry

I sent the GPR to Troy Roope in Virginia for a rebarrel with a Rice barrel. He should be recieving it today.

I checked him out on several forums, and could not find anything negative about him, his bussiness, or the quality of his work, actually it's quite the opposite. Spoke with him about the job, and he has definite ideas about what would work out the best, so I sent it to him. As I said in the previous post, once I get the GPR back I will let the members know my opinion on how it went. After everything that Lyman screwed up with 2 complete rifles, and a recall barrel, if it goes bang and prints an inch at fifty I'll be thrilled......I'd even take 2" @ 50 if it put it to the same place every time.

Flintlock season ends here tomorrow and it's forecast to be a drencher, so I'm grabbing my Pa Pellet, (that one shoots), and trying it for the last time this season today. Funny thing is I've had nothing but good luck with the Traditions. 2" @ 50yds with a 370 Maxi over 95 Grs FFG, and 3/4" @ 50yds with a .490 patched ball over 75Grs FFG.

Old Man, get back to us when its done. Also, I cant imagine shooting a 3/4" groups at 50 yds. even with my Green Mountain barrel. Seems one shot in 5 is 2" off and screws my group. I am going out again today . I only have open sights and know I could do better with different sights. What kind of sights do yo have that you shoot 3/4" groups @ 50 yds. I rarely do that . I can now and then shoot that with 3 shot groups however. I will get back to you soon . Heading for the range. I can say, this new Green Mountain tears patches with more than 60 gr. of black powder.

Rice barrel is a great resolution. Machining is so muck better, and they clean so well.
Bobby Hoyt is great at reboring barrels, he is in Adams county near Gettysburg. I think he charges 75 bucks or something in that ballpark.

Mr Bobby Hoyt
700 Fairfield Station Road
Fairfield, PA 17320
717-642-6696

Hi ihookem. If you're tearing patches with more than 60 grs the barrel may not be broken in yet, but all my Green Mountain barrels were drop-ins that shot right from the box. One in 5 being a flier isn't all that terrible so long as the cold & clean fouling round isn't it. I would suggest a pillow ticking or irish linen shooting patch, and maybe another 100 rounds to help the barrel settle in, there should be massive improvement by then.

As for the sights, being "The Old Man" means the eyes are too! Even after cataract surgery and lasix that back sight is hard to see clearly. What I did on both the GPR and the Pa Pellet was install a peep sight. Night and day improvement. 3/4 inch is virtually one ragged hole, so I use one of those black eight inch stick on targets to be sure to hold the same way on the sand bags every time, (my front bead subtents 7"@ 50 yds and really helps aiming) and for a five shot group, I swab with 91% alcohol between shots. My norm with black powder is only a three shot group without swabbing, and that's what I measure my groups with.

Hope it shoots better at the range.....sounds promising.

Gee thanks " Old Man" ! I should get me a peep sight. Idaho Louis has peep sights too . he sais he just cant see with peep sights very well for hunting but targets are fine. As for the first shot in the group , it is not the flyer. It is likely the last one in 5 shot groups but the flyer is seldom bad enough to would a deer. As for tearing patches, I use some cloth I was sure was ticking cloth. I am starting with what I know is ticking cloth cause I bought it at Walmart and is sure it is going to be better . However, I am also sure it cause the barrel is new also. Later, ihookem.

Aperature size is important on a peep. Small is good for targets - to a point. If it gets too small, sometimes the front sight blurs. For hunting, you can use a pretty good size aperature. If he was talking about a globe front sight, I agree - they stink for hunting. Make sure that's not what he thought a peep sight had to use. A nice wide, flat, front sight is best for my old eyes.

Old Man,

I havent been here much lately, the green mountain barrel I have was fitted by an older gentleman in Minnesota. He had a machine shop and I sent him the rifle and he fitted the barrel. His name is William Young and he was the proprietor of Wahkon Bay outfitting. He made and sold barrel browning solution, stock finish etc, while doing some gunsmithing. It was probably in the early 2000s when I had the work done..

ihookem, Benchman is dead on with the peep sight thing. Hands down will improve groups, but I would try it first prior to taking it off for hunting. Most guys I know just remove the screw in aperature and leave the rest as a ghost ring if they don't care for the aperature while hunting. POA won't change, and it is pretty fast to acquire the sights.And just a note if you're interested, I get my pillow ticking from Track of the Wolf, precut and Wonder Lubed.

Please let us know how that barrel works out.