Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game List reasons why one would get a .308win over .270win.

As mentioned above, the short action.

I don't now,nor have I ever, subscribed to the inherent accuracy theory. A chit barrel is a chit barrel. I don't care what's stamped on the side. The 308 is less likely to be finicky,but not a guarantee simply because it's a 308. Likewise, not likely to shoot both ends of the bullet spectrum equally as well. I think it was Tony Boyer that said a great barrel just shoots great.

If you spend enough time exercising your loonyism, you'll come across the occasional rifle,of whatever chambering, that just flat shoots whatever you stuff in it. These are rifles to hang on to. Be it budget or custom. The right blank,chambered on the right end,and properly married to the rest of the component parts. Makes for a dream rig to be around. Good cold bore accuracy. Not limited to either end of the velocity spectrum. The truth be told. I've had more 7 Rem mags as such than 308s. On the other hand. The most amazing little 308 I've loaded for was the rifle of a co-workers daughter. Fricking amazing. Considering it was a Ruger American.

The bullet selection argument doesn't wash anymore. Today's shooters don't have to rely on diameter anymore to cover the gamut of hunting applications. I.e. 338 Federal and the 6.5 Creedmoor. Heavier,wider bullets on one side. Slick,slippery bullets of all manufacture on the other. Neither nor any of the 3 a bit better than the other at the usual game taking ranges. Each bringing more to the table though for more specific tasks. Be it north country forests,or wide open spaces. The 308 squarely in between.

I don't speak Newton gak too much. 'splain to a simple mind why two bullets, one with SD of .083 (CB short) penetrates better than one of .115 (LR) in a pig? Same bullet material, same shot aspect and medium, only the velocity and SD are different.
Brad seems convinced SD rules, I'm skeptical and think other affairs might have an influence also.

Velocity works AGAINST penetration, not in favor of it, when projectiles can deform, and when the target medium contains fluid. This has been known and understood by cast bullet guys for a very long time.

If you actually read and comprehended what I wrote, I never said it "rules." It is a big factor with conventional bullets of the same construction.

Again, a 270 Win/150 of same build will out-penetrate a 308 Win/150 of same build. Their velocity is essentially the same (2,800's). This is a fact, and it comes down to SD.

And in regard to the strict example I've stuck to (because this is a thread about the 270 and 308), you're guessing, I'm not.

I've killed a bunch of elk with a 270 & 150gr of various types. I've never shot one with a 308 so I can't speak for that one. The large majority of the time, I'd find the bullet under the hide on the far side no matter where I hit it. I rarely had a through and through. Elk hide is incredibly tough and stretchy and will stop many bullets. That doesn't affect the killing part, though. It just leaves 1 less hole in the hide.

Apparently stating that bullet construction makes the most difference in penetration was too simple for such highly technical Campfire discussions.

I killed my first animal with a .308 in 1967, and my first with a .270 in 1972. Since then both my wife Eileen and I have taken over 100 animals with them, and I have also witnessed a bunch of other animals taken on various cull hunts. The animals we've taken have mostly been "deer-sized," as they are for most hunters, but have ranged up to 800-900 pounds, both in North America and Africa.

The bullets used have ranged from the simplest cup-and-cores, with relatively thin jackets and no other means of retaining weight, to various monolithics. Here's a list, which may not be complete but does cover everything from simple C&C's to monolithics:

Barnes TSX, both Tipped and hollow-point
Federal "blue box" (which used to be "red box")
Hornady Spire Point
Hornady SST
Nosler AccuBond
Nosler Ballistic Tip
Nosler E-Tip
Nosler Partition
Remington Core-Lokt
Remington Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded
Sierra Game King
Speer Grand Slam
Speer Hot-Cor
Trophy Bonded Tipped
Winchester/Combined Technology Fail Safe
Winchester Power Point

Not all of those were used in both cartridges, though the overlap is around 90%. The .270 bullets have ranged from 130-150 grains, and the .308's from 130-165, though the vast majority have been 150's. Eileen has never used a bullet heavier than 150 grains in the .308, and I've only used a couple 165's.

Here it should be noted that all "cup and core" bullets are not the same anymore, though they pretty much used to be. Many have some sort of construction feature that causes them to retain more weight than the simple cup-and-core described above. Since around 1980 Hornady Spire Points now have Interlock rings around the inside of the jacket, toward the base, and Nosler Ballistic Tips can have jackets of varying thickness. Some Ballistic Tips, in fact, are around 3/4 jacket, which means they're essentially monolithics with a little lead in the front end. I have recovered some Ballistic Tips that lost their core, but still retained over 60% of their original weight.

Over the years we have recovered twice as many .270 as .308 bullets, partly because I used the .270 with simple cup-and-cores for quite a few years before marrying Eileen, primarily the 130-grain Sierra GameKing and pre-Interlock Hornady Spire Point. Did not recover nearly as many of either as some people might guess, but one was a 130 Sierra that left its jacket at the entrance hole on a quartering-away mule deer, yet the core kept going, ending up in the opposite shoulder, killing the buck pretty much instantly. (I still have both parts.) Another was a 150 Spire Point that went through one shoulder-blade and the spine of a whitetail buck, ending up in the far scapula.

Eileen started using the .270 as her primary big game cartridge shortly after we were married, at one point taking 10 big game animals in a row with one shot, ranging from pronghorns and deer to elk to a Shiras bull moose. That was with her first .270, a Browning A-Bolt from the first year the A-Bolt appeared. I worked up two handloads that shot to the same place, one with 130-grain Hornady Spire Points (by then Interlock) and 150 Nosler Partitions. She sighted-in, practiced and shot game up through mule deer with the Interlocks, and Partitions on larger game, primarily elk but also including the moose. Then she got a NULA .270, and used 130-grain Nosler Partitions for everything.

Since 2007, however, her "big" rifle has been a custom Serengeti (now Kilimanjaro) .308 Winchester on the Kimber 84 action, which she has used both here and in Africa. She recovered three 150-grain Nosler E-Tips during its first hunting trip (which happened to be in South Africa), one from a BIG Burchell's zebra, one from a BIG warthog shot through both shoulders, and a third from a bushbuck about the size of an average whitetail. The bushbuck was standing in dense shadow, and Eileen didn't spot the Spanish prickly pear that the bullet penetrated first. The bullet has already expanded before it entered the front of the bushbuck's chest as it stood facing her, but still penetrated beyond the diaphragm.

Dunno how many .270's I've owned and hunted with, but right now only have one, a Jack O'Connor Commemorative Model 70 Featherweight. Have three .308's, an original Model 70 Featherweight made in 1953 (second year), a Franchi Momentum, and a Merkel single-shot. Have not hunted with the pre-'64 yet (may this fall), but have with both the Merkel (acquired in 2004) and the Franchi.

One of the more recent demonstrations of how even 150-grain cup-and-cores will penetrate from the .308 took place late in 2017, when I went on a group hunt in Texas with several other writers and shooting industry people. We all used Franchi .308's and Fiocchi factory ammo loaded with 150-grain Hornady SST's, a bullet I hadn't used much because of erratic results when it first appeared. All together we shot 30 whitetails and feral pigs, ranging up to big trophy bucks and boars--and never recovered a bullet. The biggest buck was shot as it almost faced the hunter, yet the bullet exited the opposite flank. The biggest boar was shot through both shoulders. Apparently the SST's have been beefed up (probably through a harder core), because even with Spire Point Interlocks I would have expected a least a couple to stay inside--especially since the shots were all pretty close, at most around 150 yards, which is where impact velocity is hardest on expanding bullets.

I do know a couple of South African professional cullers who use 180 cup-and-cores in their .308's, because component bullets are really expensive over there. The Sierras they use, in fact, cost just about as Nosler Partitions here, and they shoot more big game in a year than many American hunters shoot in a lifetime. But that is an economic decision, because they sell the meat and bullets are part of their business expenses.

There's no economic reason for most American hunters to use basic cup-and-core bullets on game larger than deer, whether from the .270 or .308r--especially when "enhanced" cup-and-cores like the Hornadys or Nosler Ballistic Tips are easily available. Have used both in the .308 and have yet to recover one from deer-sized game.

The last two .308 bullets we've recovered were a 150 AccuBond from a whitetail I shot with my Merkel, which was standing almost directly facing me at 75 yards. It broke the left shoulder and ended up under the hide of the left ham. The other was a 130-grain Barnes TTSX Eileen used on the biggest cow elk either of us have ever killed. The range was around 250 yards, and the cow was quartering toward her. At the shot the elk stumbled 20-25 yards, obviously done for, before falling. The bullet broke the near shoulder, and was recovered under the hide over the ribs on the opposite side.

From all this I have concluded that for all practical purposes the .308 penetrates more than sufficiently for general big game hunting with bullets weighing less than 180 grains.

It isn't quite that simple and I'm not guessing at all. Can you answer the question about the .22 bullets or not?

John, heck of a write up there, thanks.

What's with the "or"?

Make that "and".

No .270 here but only because I was fool enough to turn down a deal over a $15 difference in asking and what I wanted to pay. Went back early the next day to buy and another guy was filling out the paperwork for the rifle.

That said, I have developed handloads for Daughter #1's .270.

I used a .308 exclusively until I started hunting in griz country then stepped up to a .35 Whelen after a brief miserable experience with a .338 WM. Now, my .308 is loaded with frangible 140 gr Barnes MPG (aka Varmint Grenade big brother) for the occasional coyote. Very accurate and explosive results while not worrying about the neighbors a mile away. Maybe one day I’ll press it back into big game service. As for the .270, just never felt the love... Happy Trails

The whole 270 vs 30 caliber thing is why I shoot a 280 a lot. It's for people who can't make up their mind and can't afford to build a B29.

The nicest Rifle I own is a early production M76 Dakota in 7mm-08 with pretty English Walnut. It shoots well under moa, doesn't kick as much a 308 and kills stuff really well.

If I load 120 grain Balilsitic Tips,it thinks it's a 270.

If I shoot 150 grain Hornady ELDXs 'it thinks it's a 308.

I choose which bullet by the Solunar Table,otherwise it's just a guess and who wants that?

Like the way you think Doc, smiling here.

I've only owned one .270. It shot the 130 grain ballistic tips (incredibly) well but didn't do well with accubonds or X bullets and not real well with partitions. It was huntable, I guess, with the 150 partitions, but I wasn't thrilled with it.

I've owned three .308s. The first two sucked pretty bad. The only reason I bought the third was I already had dies and brass on hand left over from the previous rifles and I decided for my intended use, if it was as accurate as a lever action .30-30 it would get the job done. I even assumed it wouldn't work well and picked up a low powered scope for brush use. It has been an incredibly pleasant surprise.

I don't know, starting from scratch, that I'd pick .308 over .270, not sure I'd do it the other way, either. I would have to look at what the niche was, what cartridges I had larger and smaller, and see what fit the gap best. I could not consider either one without looking at 7mm-08, .280AI, and 7mm Rem Mag in the same vein; if the critter list stopped at deer, I'd have to throw in some .25s and some 6.5s, if it included elk I'd have to include bigger .30s and the .338, maybe even .375 H&H for style points. In the end, most of what we have available will work fine with today's bullets. Most opinions were formed from a single instance at best, not a representative sample, and that's really all they are .. opinions, not fact.

Tom

Your comparison is not relevant due to the drastic difference in muzzle velocity. Higher SD bullets will out penetrate lower SD bullets of the same construction at the same velocity. I don't think this is really a disputable statement. That said, it would be a very rare occasion when there would be any real terminal performance advantage shooting 150 gr .270 instead of a 150 gr .308 of like construction on game.

One of the best Campfire posts ever....

Agreed, no discussion of caliber selection is complete without consideration of the Solunar Tables.

You may want to include a second "and". The older I get, the better Mrs. Howell looks.

I have found the 30-30 with 150 and 170 grain bullets gives more penetration than most would believe. I can't remember ever catching a 150 gr. Bullet from a 30-30 on deer. I generally used Speer's version.

Yep Ginger and Maryanne here, throw in a 7-08 to split hairs.Use the 270 in more open country and let it be a bit longer and heavier. The 308 build a light one and put a low powered scope on it set up for denser areas. When I take two rifles this is the approach I take to cover hilly and lots of trees or out in the sage. Not because I am worried my rifle would break.

This is good to know. I have a couple of rifles that really favor the SST's for accuracy, but have not hunted with them because of earlier rumors.