Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game List reasons why one would get a .308win over .270win.

..??

I have a large selection of .308 bullets and not one .277.

I have enough rifles to load for.

Then there's that hetero thing, too.... (grin)

Actually it's action length and a barrel generally no longer than 22", often shorter. I believe a .270 benefits from a 24" barrel, and the action length added to that makes for an obliviously longer rifle and I tend to hunt thicker stuff at shorter ranges. I do have a 24" .30-06, and it's not as handy in the woods as my 20" .308. But it can be used, it amounts to personal preference.

JB has an excellent chapter on the .270 in Gun Gack #1.

You need both.
I have one of each that are my absolute "go to" guns.
A R77 RL in 308 and a R77 R in 270. Born killers.
Of course I have more that fall in line behind these two.

I have several of each. I like them both. They both kill deer and pigs equally well!

Splitting hairs as about any argument is going to subjective if this is a hunting discussion. Objectively, a whitetail, elk, or a moose will never be able to tell the difference.
Benchrest, the 308 gets the edge.

Short action.

Bullet selection

Heavier bullets

I own a .270. (am I allowed to admit that here?)

It's my wife's rifle

-Jake

Because I have several thousand .284 bullets, and I lost Ackleys load data on pushing 284 bullets down a 270 bore.............


that............. and they're gay!

I have both. 270 is my go to simply because of the type of hunting I do. Could get by with either but why? Ginger or Mary Anne?

Because he's not gay

So you take two rifles hunting with you at all times? Same

I think that main difference lies in the ability for the 308 to be made into a shorter, lighter, handier rifle without sacrificing almost any of its ballistics to start with.

You can go to 20", even 18", and lose hardly anything in the 308. With a stiff barrel, it maintains its inherent accuracy. And in my opinion and that of some others (for instance some African PHs), the slightly larger bore diameter leaves just enough of a larger wound channel upon entrance/exit even with stiff bullets that you get a more reliable blood trail when needed. I've not seen anything that a 30 caliber won't do as well or often "better" than a 27.

That said, it would be all about the "platform" for me, and how well if fits and feels in the field. 270 vs 308 is a tossup for most practical intents.

Another thing to consider would be cheap milsurp ammo for practice in the 308, depending on a rifles particular chamber dimensions. I found that out the hard way when a bunch of $75 for 500 CAVIM ball came home with me. The Boat Paddle was not happy. It did work fine in a Steyr M98, though, and the brass was fine for reloading.

short action can be built into a very light rifle.

Not A Single One ....... where I hunt and MY requirements.


Jerry


btw - I had one. Never thot about getting another one.

Lapua 155 Scenar

Sniper clothes versus a dress, maybe 😂😎

I like threesomes.

This kept me from self-lobotomizing.

270 over 308
Unless you get the old faithful 06

I chose anything over a 270 because:

I gave my stepsons 270s as they hunt with their dad and he uses one. That way they can steal ammo from him rather than me!

Smart man.

.308/7.62x51 nay be the most developed cartridge in existence. It is accurate and not only is ammo readily available, but excellent ammo is available at great prices. In addition, .308 is chambered in a lot of different platforms.

The .270 is a great cartridge. There is little you can’t get done with 130-150 grain bullets at 3150-2850.

Expat

I have a pack of .30 caliber rifles and 7mm also. Nary a .277 bore anything. Why bother?

The only valid argument I can think of is SA vs LA.

With that being said, we have nine 270's in the house and zero 308's and two 7-08's. Can not think of anything the 308 will do that I can not accomplish with a 270. But that argument swings both ways.

If you reload, the 308 eats a larger pie out of available powders of suitable burn rate and is rarely picky about any of em (think using the same powders as a 223). If you don't reload, ammo for the 308 across the board is also going to be cheaper.
I've never seen steel cased 270's or basement priced FMJ ball for the 270.

If going the cast route, a 308 is a lot easier to get success with the least amount of effort versus most 270's as well.

And if they make an AR in 270, I'm not aware of it.

I have had a .308, or two for a long time. They are great. I just (yes I'll admit it) traded for my first ever .270. It is a post 64 Model 70 and shoots Hornady Whitetail ammo into one hole at a hundred yards. I am going to shoot a couple deer with it this fall, just to say that I did.

That being said, I generally like the short-action calibers, for my go-to hunting rifles for deer and antelope. The .308 will eat lots of different bullets and powder and shine with them all. There is really no bad answer here.

Things in favor of the 308:

Short Action
Inherent Accuracy
Broad Availability of Bullets (.308)
Works With A Remarkable Variety Of Powders
Miserly Powder Consumption
Works Well with Carbine Length Barrels
Staggering Amount Of Affordable Factory Ammo
World-Wide Military Use

Things in favor of the 270:

Jack O'Connor Used It



Seriously, I like both and there is no "righter" answer...

Right now I have one .270 and three .308's, and my wife has another .308.

One thing the .308 can do that the .270 can't is shoot the same weight bullets at the same muzzle velocity, at slightly lower pressures with less powder. This results in somewhat less recoil, around 20% with 150-grain bullets according to the basic recoil-energy formula.
Whether not this matters to real he-men is another question, but for lots of practice I vote for the .308.

The .270's smaller-diameter bullets so have slightly higher ballistic coefficients, so in theory will work better at longer ranges. But if you run the numbers for the same brand/type of hunting bullets, it turned out the difference in trajectory and wind-drift at 400 yards will be about an inch, which in real-world big game shooting doesn't matter. Plus, there are more higher-BC bullets available in .30 caliber.

.308 caliber Nosler Ballistic tip bullets are green. .277 caliber Ballistic tips are yellow. I like green better than yellow. 🤣

I guess it would make more difference if I shot ballistic tips

Suppose your elderly best friend wanted to give you a rifle,a Pre 64 Model 70 Featherweight. And let's just say that he had two to pick from,a 270 and a 308 both proven shooters in excelent condtion.

And he made you promise to never sell the rifle but leave it to you son at your death.

Which do you pick? Remember this rifle only came in one action length and one barrel length so the playing field is completely level.

For me it's not even close,the 270.

For the record,I have five 308s and six 270s.

But put them in the same rifle like the above Winchester,a Tikka,or a Remington 7600;I pick the 270 every time since I have all of these in 270.

My 308s are mostly short,light carbines,plus a AR. These make more sense in 308. So I guess it depends on how you frame the question.

Both are great. As stated, if you want a lighter and shorter rifle go 308.

Load a .308 130 TTSX behind Varget or RL15 for ~3050 fps and you basically have a short action 270.

How do you get the bullet to stay ‘behind’ the powder ?


Jerry

John, how I think of recoil between different calibers is not to compare bullet weight, but to compare Sectional Density... I think that's a more fair comparison. So, in the case of the 270/150 gr I think the more fair comparison is the 308/180 gr (.279 vs .271 SD). In this case, everything else equal, recoil is essentially equal.

Regardless, what one will do, the other will do. At my core, I'm a 308 guy. Have three currently and no 270's, though I plan to rectify that.

.270 because it just works. I've had more DRTs with it than any other caliber, let alone a .308.

Starman: I live and Hunt, a lot, in SW Montana nowadays, and have used both calibers on game from Antelope, Deer (3 kinds), Black Bear, Mt.Goats and Elk.
The "nowadays" comment is emphasized because Grizzly Bears are expanding both in the areas they frequent and in their populations anymore.
So I would give the edge when Hunting in my neck'o the woods to the 308 and the wonderful 165 grain Nosler Partitions I use in mine.
The 270 Winchester is a wonderful cartridge and I love all of mine but would rather go with the 308 and proper bullets, when in Grizz country.
Could not tell from your header where or what you will be Hunting.
Good luck whichever you choose.
Long live the 270 Winchester!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

308 wins on bullet selection alone.

My 2 favorite cartridges. I have 2 308s (Remington Model 7 with some lightweight upgrades and a BLR) and a 270Win (Remington 700).

If you look at this from a rifle (instead of cartridge) stand point, the 308 gives you more versatility in gun selection. It can be built to standard specs, but the shorter chamber and more efficient powder use let you make a shorter, lighter gun. The 308 is also inherently accurate, which is why a lot of long-range rifles are chambered for it, making it possible to use the 308 in a tactical gun without having to buy custom, and you can still get a 20” barrel without much performance loss.

As far as the round itself, it has a lot of good things going for it. First, it’s been adopted as a NATO cartridge meaning you can get surplus ammo cheap and in bulk, if that interests you. It’s also a very efficient powder burner. Both of my 308s have a 20” barrel, but with my reloads I get velocity nearly identical to my 30-06 (22” barrel) using same weight bullets, BUT I’m using 9 grains of powder less than in the ‘06. It also has a very large selection of bullets, especially for reloaders. I think they make .308 bullets all the way down to 110gr, and all the way up to 240. Not every bullet weight makes sense in a 308Win, but the option is still there.

Outstanding relatively inexpensive match grade ammo.

Man, no offense intended, but that’s some serious grasping at straws...

Brad,

I have yet to find the higher sectional density of the .270 with equal-weight bullets makes any difference in killing big game--and between us, Eileen and I have taken a bunch of animals with both over the decades, in both North America and Africa. What does make a difference is bullet construction, per usual.

The previously mentioned Pre-64 M70 notwithstanding with the same action length and a spacer block for the .308, most .308's today are made on shorter and therefore stiffer actions which the target guys seem to appreciate. For hunting accuracy it sure wouldn't matter. I carry a rifle a whole bunch more than I shoot it and I rework my serious hunting rifles into light weigh stocks with shorter, lighter barrels. I made a perfectly good .308 into an even more perfect 7# 7mm-08 and split your difference. In retrospect just shooting factory ammo, the .308 would have been less expensive to shoot in the long run and no animal would be able to tell the difference.

With cup and core bullets, of equal construction, the higher SD bullet may not kill any better, but they will absolutely penetrate deeper (270/150 vs 308/150).

No ref. to MD, but that point certainly is lost on some today.

Equal construction is the key point.

Jerry

The reason I have a 308 over a 270 is I can use the same 30cal bullets in my 30-06,300WSM or 300Win Mag if I choose to.

If all else is equal, perhaps. SD is a metric oft relied on to riddle expected results, but there are so many other factors at play that it is a guess on the best of days. It is nothing more than a ratio of weight/diameter that will begin to change as soon as the target is met. What is the SD when 30% of weight is lost? What is it when the bullet begins to tumble. The world of terminal ballistics is one of the last remaining scientific black holes in shooting sports and I suggest one not spend a lot of time theorizing about what happens and the results thereof. Just put the bullet where it needs to go.

.308 is short action, and not gay.

There's a pretty well established relationship between SD and penetration in conventional bullets. Nice thing about penetration is fairly empirical results can be arrived at even by a layman. So in the case of the 270/308/150, it's really not a "black hole" at all. And I promise a 150 Partition from a 270 will out-penetrate a 150 Partition from a 308. So what's better, putting a "bullet where it needs to go" that penetrates more or less? Generally the difference matters little, but occasionally on bigger, big game it might.

I know a guy...ahem,who once killed two bull elk with a single 150 grain Nosler Partition. Two lung shot bulls,two very short blood trails in the snow. Totally unintended,didn't even see the second bull.Which was tagged and eaten by hunting partner. All this was years ago and the statute has run.

But the 270 with a 150 Grain Nosler Partition is capable of any animal in North America,just ask Phil Shoemaker how it works on Brown Bears.

I'm not sure the 308 with a 150 grain Partition is as capable. One could step up to heavier bullets in the 308 but velocity begins to fall off as you do.

I have wanted a Pre 64 Featerweight since I read Bill Jordan of Border Patrol fame write about his. Bill's gun was originally chambered in 308,and Bill sent it back to Winchester and had them fit a 270 barrel and convert the rifle to 270. Bill's go to bullet was the 150 grain Partition which he used for everything.

Reading his exploits as well as O'Connor made me a 270 Partition fan.
But I will admit to deer hunting with a Sako Mannlicher in 308 because of John Wooters.

Well..... it doesn't take much to influence some....huh .

Joking of course. I'm a Wooters fan too.


Jerry

A .308 win probably is a better general choice. I don't own one anymore. The 30/06 and .270 are my choices for western game.With a 30/06 on hand the .308 fills no need...not into platforms, just turn bolts and leverguns

In the absence of fact, theory is fine.

I've had better luck getting excellent accuracy out of cast bullets in the 270, and at some scorching speeds (for cast bullets). Longer neck helps in that regard. For jacketed bullets, I can see a thin advantage going to the 308....shorter action, less powder, more suitable powders, component availability, yada yada yada, but I can't see that one could ever tell the difference between the two on animals big or small, as long as the right bullets were used.

Not theory, fact. You can easily test the two for yourself. Sorry that doesn't fit in one of your pre-conceived boxes...

As the O/P I will say this;

Theres a place for compact .308 rifles , but they have never suited me even after trying three of them.
Ruger UL, Rem.mod. 7, and Miroku BLR... all had 20"...but each time I began missing my longer barrels.

The best feeling .308 I've handled was; Wby ultra-LW, based on a long-action with 24"
it doesn't sound right or ideal for a .308win, but it felt great at 5-3/4 lbs.

cutting it back to 23" would be my idea of a compact enough rifle ..

Riddle me this. Why does the bullet from a CCI CB Short penetrate more than that of a .22 LR when applied to the same anatomical region on hogs?

My first experience with the ".308" was in the form referred to as the 7.62x51 NATO. Did not care for it in the M14, but found it quite functional when belt fed thru miniguns or M60s. Have no idea how much I burned up, but know there were some days when 10K rounds were sprinkled here and there around I Corps. My sentiments toward the round are the same as those on the 5.56. Don't care if i ever shoot another round of either. Never shot a round of .270 or lusted for one.

Use whatever works and have a good hunt or three this fall.

Just plain preference. Both work.

MAYBE the 308 Win... IF it has a 1-12" twist, if you plan on serious cast bullet shooting.

Both are great. Pick one and just shoot it.

I hate 270’s.

I love short actions.

But, Brad’s right. The 270 150 will out-penetrate the 308 150 in bigger big game. For thin skinned Whitetail’s, swing with who swung ya, dance with who brung ya.

I'm wondering where 150 Partitions are the basis for a point on "conventional" bullets?

S.D. often falls to pieces about the time the bullet falls to pieces; my money is on a 30/30's ability to dig if we're talking 150 cup and core spitzers....or the Krag.

Newton's Third Law.
Look here for more on Newton.

As mentioned above, the short action.

I don't now,nor have I ever, subscribed to the inherent accuracy theory. A chit barrel is a chit barrel. I don't care what's stamped on the side. The 308 is less likely to be finicky,but not a guarantee simply because it's a 308. Likewise, not likely to shoot both ends of the bullet spectrum equally as well. I think it was Tony Boyer that said a great barrel just shoots great.

If you spend enough time exercising your loonyism, you'll come across the occasional rifle,of whatever chambering, that just flat shoots whatever you stuff in it. These are rifles to hang on to. Be it budget or custom. The right blank,chambered on the right end,and properly married to the rest of the component parts. Makes for a dream rig to be around. Good cold bore accuracy. Not limited to either end of the velocity spectrum. The truth be told. I've had more 7 Rem mags as such than 308s. On the other hand. The most amazing little 308 I've loaded for was the rifle of a co-workers daughter. Fricking amazing. Considering it was a Ruger American.

The bullet selection argument doesn't wash anymore. Today's shooters don't have to rely on diameter anymore to cover the gamut of hunting applications. I.e. 338 Federal and the 6.5 Creedmoor. Heavier,wider bullets on one side. Slick,slippery bullets of all manufacture on the other. Neither nor any of the 3 a bit better than the other at the usual game taking ranges. Each bringing more to the table though for more specific tasks. Be it north country forests,or wide open spaces. The 308 squarely in between.

I don't speak Newton gak too much. 'splain to a simple mind why two bullets, one with SD of .083 (CB short) penetrates better than one of .115 (LR) in a pig? Same bullet material, same shot aspect and medium, only the velocity and SD are different.
Brad seems convinced SD rules, I'm skeptical and think other affairs might have an influence also.

Velocity works AGAINST penetration, not in favor of it, when projectiles can deform, and when the target medium contains fluid. This has been known and understood by cast bullet guys for a very long time.

If you actually read and comprehended what I wrote, I never said it "rules." It is a big factor with conventional bullets of the same construction.

Again, a 270 Win/150 of same build will out-penetrate a 308 Win/150 of same build. Their velocity is essentially the same (2,800's). This is a fact, and it comes down to SD.

And in regard to the strict example I've stuck to (because this is a thread about the 270 and 308), you're guessing, I'm not.

I've killed a bunch of elk with a 270 & 150gr of various types. I've never shot one with a 308 so I can't speak for that one. The large majority of the time, I'd find the bullet under the hide on the far side no matter where I hit it. I rarely had a through and through. Elk hide is incredibly tough and stretchy and will stop many bullets. That doesn't affect the killing part, though. It just leaves 1 less hole in the hide.

Apparently stating that bullet construction makes the most difference in penetration was too simple for such highly technical Campfire discussions.

I killed my first animal with a .308 in 1967, and my first with a .270 in 1972. Since then both my wife Eileen and I have taken over 100 animals with them, and I have also witnessed a bunch of other animals taken on various cull hunts. The animals we've taken have mostly been "deer-sized," as they are for most hunters, but have ranged up to 800-900 pounds, both in North America and Africa.

The bullets used have ranged from the simplest cup-and-cores, with relatively thin jackets and no other means of retaining weight, to various monolithics. Here's a list, which may not be complete but does cover everything from simple C&C's to monolithics:

Barnes TSX, both Tipped and hollow-point
Federal "blue box" (which used to be "red box")
Hornady Spire Point
Hornady SST
Nosler AccuBond
Nosler Ballistic Tip
Nosler E-Tip
Nosler Partition
Remington Core-Lokt
Remington Core-Lokt Ultra Bonded
Sierra Game King
Speer Grand Slam
Speer Hot-Cor
Trophy Bonded Tipped
Winchester/Combined Technology Fail Safe
Winchester Power Point

Not all of those were used in both cartridges, though the overlap is around 90%. The .270 bullets have ranged from 130-150 grains, and the .308's from 130-165, though the vast majority have been 150's. Eileen has never used a bullet heavier than 150 grains in the .308, and I've only used a couple 165's.

Here it should be noted that all "cup and core" bullets are not the same anymore, though they pretty much used to be. Many have some sort of construction feature that causes them to retain more weight than the simple cup-and-core described above. Since around 1980 Hornady Spire Points now have Interlock rings around the inside of the jacket, toward the base, and Nosler Ballistic Tips can have jackets of varying thickness. Some Ballistic Tips, in fact, are around 3/4 jacket, which means they're essentially monolithics with a little lead in the front end. I have recovered some Ballistic Tips that lost their core, but still retained over 60% of their original weight.

Over the years we have recovered twice as many .270 as .308 bullets, partly because I used the .270 with simple cup-and-cores for quite a few years before marrying Eileen, primarily the 130-grain Sierra GameKing and pre-Interlock Hornady Spire Point. Did not recover nearly as many of either as some people might guess, but one was a 130 Sierra that left its jacket at the entrance hole on a quartering-away mule deer, yet the core kept going, ending up in the opposite shoulder, killing the buck pretty much instantly. (I still have both parts.) Another was a 150 Spire Point that went through one shoulder-blade and the spine of a whitetail buck, ending up in the far scapula.

Eileen started using the .270 as her primary big game cartridge shortly after we were married, at one point taking 10 big game animals in a row with one shot, ranging from pronghorns and deer to elk to a Shiras bull moose. That was with her first .270, a Browning A-Bolt from the first year the A-Bolt appeared. I worked up two handloads that shot to the same place, one with 130-grain Hornady Spire Points (by then Interlock) and 150 Nosler Partitions. She sighted-in, practiced and shot game up through mule deer with the Interlocks, and Partitions on larger game, primarily elk but also including the moose. Then she got a NULA .270, and used 130-grain Nosler Partitions for everything.

Since 2007, however, her "big" rifle has been a custom Serengeti (now Kilimanjaro) .308 Winchester on the Kimber 84 action, which she has used both here and in Africa. She recovered three 150-grain Nosler E-Tips during its first hunting trip (which happened to be in South Africa), one from a BIG Burchell's zebra, one from a BIG warthog shot through both shoulders, and a third from a bushbuck about the size of an average whitetail. The bushbuck was standing in dense shadow, and Eileen didn't spot the Spanish prickly pear that the bullet penetrated first. The bullet has already expanded before it entered the front of the bushbuck's chest as it stood facing her, but still penetrated beyond the diaphragm.

Dunno how many .270's I've owned and hunted with, but right now only have one, a Jack O'Connor Commemorative Model 70 Featherweight. Have three .308's, an original Model 70 Featherweight made in 1953 (second year), a Franchi Momentum, and a Merkel single-shot. Have not hunted with the pre-'64 yet (may this fall), but have with both the Merkel (acquired in 2004) and the Franchi.

One of the more recent demonstrations of how even 150-grain cup-and-cores will penetrate from the .308 took place late in 2017, when I went on a group hunt in Texas with several other writers and shooting industry people. We all used Franchi .308's and Fiocchi factory ammo loaded with 150-grain Hornady SST's, a bullet I hadn't used much because of erratic results when it first appeared. All together we shot 30 whitetails and feral pigs, ranging up to big trophy bucks and boars--and never recovered a bullet. The biggest buck was shot as it almost faced the hunter, yet the bullet exited the opposite flank. The biggest boar was shot through both shoulders. Apparently the SST's have been beefed up (probably through a harder core), because even with Spire Point Interlocks I would have expected a least a couple to stay inside--especially since the shots were all pretty close, at most around 150 yards, which is where impact velocity is hardest on expanding bullets.

I do know a couple of South African professional cullers who use 180 cup-and-cores in their .308's, because component bullets are really expensive over there. The Sierras they use, in fact, cost just about as Nosler Partitions here, and they shoot more big game in a year than many American hunters shoot in a lifetime. But that is an economic decision, because they sell the meat and bullets are part of their business expenses.

There's no economic reason for most American hunters to use basic cup-and-core bullets on game larger than deer, whether from the .270 or .308r--especially when "enhanced" cup-and-cores like the Hornadys or Nosler Ballistic Tips are easily available. Have used both in the .308 and have yet to recover one from deer-sized game.

The last two .308 bullets we've recovered were a 150 AccuBond from a whitetail I shot with my Merkel, which was standing almost directly facing me at 75 yards. It broke the left shoulder and ended up under the hide of the left ham. The other was a 130-grain Barnes TTSX Eileen used on the biggest cow elk either of us have ever killed. The range was around 250 yards, and the cow was quartering toward her. At the shot the elk stumbled 20-25 yards, obviously done for, before falling. The bullet broke the near shoulder, and was recovered under the hide over the ribs on the opposite side.

From all this I have concluded that for all practical purposes the .308 penetrates more than sufficiently for general big game hunting with bullets weighing less than 180 grains.

It isn't quite that simple and I'm not guessing at all. Can you answer the question about the .22 bullets or not?

John, heck of a write up there, thanks.

What's with the "or"?

Make that "and".

No .270 here but only because I was fool enough to turn down a deal over a $15 difference in asking and what I wanted to pay. Went back early the next day to buy and another guy was filling out the paperwork for the rifle.

That said, I have developed handloads for Daughter #1's .270.

I used a .308 exclusively until I started hunting in griz country then stepped up to a .35 Whelen after a brief miserable experience with a .338 WM. Now, my .308 is loaded with frangible 140 gr Barnes MPG (aka Varmint Grenade big brother) for the occasional coyote. Very accurate and explosive results while not worrying about the neighbors a mile away. Maybe one day I’ll press it back into big game service. As for the .270, just never felt the love... Happy Trails

The whole 270 vs 30 caliber thing is why I shoot a 280 a lot. It's for people who can't make up their mind and can't afford to build a B29.

The nicest Rifle I own is a early production M76 Dakota in 7mm-08 with pretty English Walnut. It shoots well under moa, doesn't kick as much a 308 and kills stuff really well.

If I load 120 grain Balilsitic Tips,it thinks it's a 270.

If I shoot 150 grain Hornady ELDXs 'it thinks it's a 308.

I choose which bullet by the Solunar Table,otherwise it's just a guess and who wants that?

Like the way you think Doc, smiling here.

I've only owned one .270. It shot the 130 grain ballistic tips (incredibly) well but didn't do well with accubonds or X bullets and not real well with partitions. It was huntable, I guess, with the 150 partitions, but I wasn't thrilled with it.

I've owned three .308s. The first two sucked pretty bad. The only reason I bought the third was I already had dies and brass on hand left over from the previous rifles and I decided for my intended use, if it was as accurate as a lever action .30-30 it would get the job done. I even assumed it wouldn't work well and picked up a low powered scope for brush use. It has been an incredibly pleasant surprise.

I don't know, starting from scratch, that I'd pick .308 over .270, not sure I'd do it the other way, either. I would have to look at what the niche was, what cartridges I had larger and smaller, and see what fit the gap best. I could not consider either one without looking at 7mm-08, .280AI, and 7mm Rem Mag in the same vein; if the critter list stopped at deer, I'd have to throw in some .25s and some 6.5s, if it included elk I'd have to include bigger .30s and the .338, maybe even .375 H&H for style points. In the end, most of what we have available will work fine with today's bullets. Most opinions were formed from a single instance at best, not a representative sample, and that's really all they are .. opinions, not fact.

Tom

Your comparison is not relevant due to the drastic difference in muzzle velocity. Higher SD bullets will out penetrate lower SD bullets of the same construction at the same velocity. I don't think this is really a disputable statement. That said, it would be a very rare occasion when there would be any real terminal performance advantage shooting 150 gr .270 instead of a 150 gr .308 of like construction on game.

One of the best Campfire posts ever....

Agreed, no discussion of caliber selection is complete without consideration of the Solunar Tables.

You may want to include a second "and". The older I get, the better Mrs. Howell looks.

I have found the 30-30 with 150 and 170 grain bullets gives more penetration than most would believe. I can't remember ever catching a 150 gr. Bullet from a 30-30 on deer. I generally used Speer's version.

Yep Ginger and Maryanne here, throw in a 7-08 to split hairs.Use the 270 in more open country and let it be a bit longer and heavier. The 308 build a light one and put a low powered scope on it set up for denser areas. When I take two rifles this is the approach I take to cover hilly and lots of trees or out in the sage. Not because I am worried my rifle would break.

This is good to know. I have a couple of rifles that really favor the SST's for accuracy, but have not hunted with them because of earlier rumors.

I chose the .270 win. over the .308W Win. for the simple reason that it will perform better as climate change begins to overtake the Earth. Don't ask me why but the "science" is settled between the two cartridges. Although I must say with rising temperatures, I'll have to cut-back at least one grain of H4831SC.

Those are most likely flatnose or roundnosed designs; a 30-30 with a Speer spitzer within its requisite 150 yards is akin to the 270 and 308 with Partitions, perhaps even in the TSX realm for digging, assuming it opens a smidge, and evenly at that.

The material, the meplat and the shove from the rear along with the resistance from the front all muddys the SD arguments.

Burning more powder to do the same thing may be the contributing factor to climate change....

The faster is moves the faster it stops. - Right.

He always does a great job.
I also thank you for it.

I knew someone was going to go there. Sheese! I know.....hot right? Money too!

Although it doesn't make sense to many. it is often the case that the same bullet driven fast will stop sooner than the same bullet driven slower.

Which of these two loads do you think will penetrate more one gallon water jugs?

1. .45-70, 460g hardcast @ 1812fps, 3354fpe
2. .45-70, 300g hardcast @ 1167fps, 907fpe


The "obvious" choice is also the wrong one.

In my testing the 460g hardcast penetrated 9 water jugs, stopping in the last one. Damage was extensive, with most jugs spectacularly blown up, and included breaking the crosspiece on the front sawhorse holding the board that held the water jugs.

Damage was far less impressive with the 300g bullet, which blew up a jug or two but left leaking entrance and exit holes in the others. Total penetration was 11 jugs with an exit in the last one.

If you're thinking this was a one-off test result, you would be mistaken. Similar results on multiple trips to the range. I've never caught the slower 300g bullet because i run out of board to rest the water jugs on.

I used to know a guy who used a 375 H&H for hunting deer in trees. He said he didn't worry about trees. He just shot through them.

When I got my first centerfire (7mm RM) I bet Big Brother it would shoot through a live 1-foot diameter pine tree. He bet it wouldn't.

He lost.

160g Speer Grand Slam.

The fact remains the most accurate way to compare bullets of different caliber is not weight, it is SD/BC numbers. The better comparison of a 270/150 is not a 308/150, it is a 308/180 (or at the very least a 165).

I've used both the 270 and 308 on everything from coyotes and antelope, through all manner of deer, up to elk. I've used 130's, 140, qnd 150's in the 270, and 150's and 165's in the 308 (though have tested 180's for penetration). What a bullet will do to deer isn't how I judge a bullet... it's just not much of a test. Elk sized game is what I think constitutes a real test for bullets. The 308 Win is my hand's down favorite cartridge (I currently have three), and for elk I mostly load 165's to get just a bit more penetration than comparable 150's. I'm completely aware 150 will work and work well... I just prefer a deeper dig and two holes if I can get them. Pretty simple really...

Well thank you Dan. It's a gift,but at least I'm responding to therapy and will hopefully be normal soon.

Thanks John,

I may be confused,but at least I'm clear about it. Kinda like the Baptist Preachers of my youth,I may not be right but I'm never in doubt.

Am familiar with Baptist preachers of that era! My maternal grandfather was one....

By the way, I also used to know a guy who grew up in the same Pennsylvania town as John Alden Knight, who developed the tables. During summers my friend Dave made money caddying at the local golf course, and caddied for Knight a LOT.

Once day Dave got up the nerve to ask him, "Mister Knight, do your tables really work?

Knight looked at him, then asked, "How many days a week do you caddy for me?"

Dave thought, then said, "Most days."

Alden said, "Then I'd say they work...."

Wonderful story.

The guy was a genius, a couple of my buddies live by those tables, I was thinking about Ed Zern,who understood them better than anybody,and used them to conceive his children and cook pasta if I remember correctly.

I have a number of Baptist preachers in my family as well;I still feel guilty about hunting on Sunday,I do it anyways(always after church),but hope nobody sees me. Like foolin around with your wife,It's just better to keep somethings concealed from the neighbors.

They think I'm eccentric enough already and it is kind of a Baptist environment here.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.