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Campfire Outfitter
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I'm seeing a good number of 40 S+W's on sale lately. I mean there will be the same thing in 9mm but only the 40 is on sale. I know a few guys who want to sell their 40's (to buy 9mm's mostly) but would have to take a big hit on them.
I don't see why other than the FBI and police agency's trading down in caliber. The 40 is a damned fine round. I shoot a 40 Shield with no issues. Yes it took a minute to get used to it in such a small gun but it wasn't that big a deal. I have a 40 Shield, a xd sub compact and a XD 5" tactical, all fine shooting pistols.
Last edited by Armednfree; 08/19/19.
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Apparently, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
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Apparently, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. Such as?
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe, an Obama phone, free health insurance. and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Regular
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[/b][/u]he 40 is a damned fine round. I shoot a 40 Shield with no issues. Yes it took a minute to get used to it in such a small gun but it wasn't that big a deal.[b][u]
There in is the downside; most the people I've seen wanting a "four Oh", you mean a 40 cal?? Would not take the time and $$$ to shoot it and learn it.
And these zombies line up and eat from the media’s trough
Cowards CANNOT be free. Nor should they be.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I like the .40 very much and will continue to use it. Same goes for .45 ACP.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Law Enforcement has gone full circle since the FBI Miami shootout. 9mm didn't get the job done, so the FBI went to the 10mm. Female agents and some males couldn't handle it so the .40 S&W was invented. The Department I worked for went from .38 revolvers to S&W 4506 .45acp pistols in 1990. Then we went to S&W M&P pistols in .40 S&W in 2007. I'm retired now, but this year they are switching to the M&P 2.0 in 9mm. The FBI has also gone to the Glock 19 9mm. Advances in ammo have closed the gap some in performance, but I still love the .40. The .40 will always be around, but the availability of inexpensive 50 round boxes of good LEO ammo (HST and Gold Dot) may be scarce at some point. The reason given for my Department for,going to the 9mm was officially "easier for smaller framed officers to handle". That means women.
Ron
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Orwell
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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The 40 has been heading out the door for about 4-5 years now. Police agencies all across the nation are dumping it for the 9 because of the cost of ammo.
I think it was a victim of greed and agency budgets.
Paul
"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.
Trump Won!, Sandmann Won!, Rittenhouse Won!, Suck it Liberal Fuuktards.
molɔ̀ːn labé skýla
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Three years ago, the shop I work at had a display case of 20-30 40's. Now we are down to 3--M&P, G22 and G23. The only ones who buy them are cops. Ohio7x57 is correct about the advances in ammo closing the gap. Also, you'd be surprised how many civilians follow what LE carries. Once the FBI (and MSP in our state) switched, the stampede to buy 9mms was on. I sold my 23 several years ago and just have a 19, 43 and 48 now.
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Joined: May 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I think it's simpler than that. First there's a herd mentality in law enforcement. "If agency X goes 9mm it must be good and is administratively and politically a good, safe choice." Second, most cops are not gun nuts. Just enough proficiency to qualify. And we all know that a relatively heavy 9mm makes that easier.
The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh
Which explains a lot.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I love my Delta Elite 10 mm....I must be way outside the mainstream.
You only live once, but...if you do it right, once is enough.
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Campfire Outfitter
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to answer your question,no way
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9mm ammo has improved. I saw a recent penetration test with the 9mm, 40 s&w, 45 acp, and 357 Sig. The 357 Sig actually penetrated deepest, with the 9mm on it's heals. The 40 and the 45 were a few inches behind. All were using premium ammo. Even though the 357 Sig out performed the others, the ammo is much higher than the others. 9mm being the cheapest followed by 40 then 45 and 357 Sig.
I tried 9mm fmj ammo at the range. At 100 yards at a man sized target (hard to actually get a good hit), however it penetrated a 1/2" plywood holding the target, and penetrated a 2x4 behind the plywood. It penetrated the 2" thick side. Even though the 2x4 is actually 1-1/2" x 3-1/2" so the 9mm penetrated 2" of wood at 100 yards. Penetration of the 9mm is no longer a problem. If you double tap a perpetrator with a 9mm he is probably going down. At actual handgun shooting ranges less than 50 yards, 9mm no only can do the job, but with a lot more ammo in the magazines. I was very surprised at my results. This was with fmj ammo, don't know what expanding ammo will do.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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I'm seeing a good number of 40 S+W's on sale lately. I mean there will be the same thing in 9mm but only the 40 is on sale. I know a few guys who want to sell their 40's (to buy 9mm's mostly) but would have to take a big hit on them.
I don't see why other than the FBI and police agency's trading down in caliber. The 40 is a damned fine round. I shoot a 40 Shield with no issues. Yes it took a minute to get used to it in such a small gun but it wasn't that big a deal. I have a 40 Shield, a xd sub compact and a XD 5" tactical, all fine shooting pistols.
It's a fine round, but quite snappy in the hand when chambered in the same weight guns as 9mm. Not in the least painful, like a true Magnum, but snappy, such that follow up shots are slowed for most shooters, which many find disconcerting. If it were chambered in Glock 21 sized guns, they'd be a good match for the gun, and might be more popular. Imagine a Glock 30 in .40 S&W. It would be compact enough for carry, yet would tame the snappiness down quite a bit.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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I love my Delta Elite 10 mm....I must be way outside the mainstream. An all steel 1911 in .40 S&W would likely be popular. Should be a lot less snappy in that platform than in something like a Glock 23.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2005
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9mm ammo has improved. I saw a recent penetration test with the 9mm, 40 s&w, 45 acp, and 357 Sig. The 357 Sig actually penetrated deepest, with the 9mm on it's heals. The 40 and the 45 were a few inches behind. All were using premium ammo. Even though the 357 Sig out performed the others, the ammo is much higher than the others. 9mm being the cheapest followed by 40 then 45 and 357 Sig.
I tried 9mm fmj ammo at the range. At 100 yards at a man sized target (hard to actually get a good hit), however it penetrated a 1/2" plywood holding the target, and penetrated a 2x4 behind the plywood. It penetrated the 2" thick side. Even though the 2x4 is actually 1-1/2" x 3-1/2" so the 9mm penetrated 2" of wood at 100 yards. Penetration of the 9mm is no longer a problem. If you double tap a perpetrator with a 9mm he is probably going down. At actual handgun shooting ranges less than 50 yards, 9mm no only can do the job, but with a lot more ammo in the magazines. I was very surprised at my results. This was with fmj ammo, don't know what expanding ammo will do. Ammunition has to do more than penetrate. FMJ 9mm would always penetrate as much or more than FMJ 45 ACP. Penetration for stopping a fight has to be enough, and in fact, a round that penetrates enough as opposed to going completely through the subject, is preferable. Many lab rats seem to forget this.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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No doubt Obama likes more penetration. Mooch might have a 45 sized though.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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An all steel 1911 in .40 S&W would likely be popular. Should be a lot less snappy in that platform than in something like a Glock 23. The opposite is true. The plastic frame of the Glock flexes some during recoil plus the wider grip spreads out the recoil over a wider portion of the hand. My 1911's shooting standard hardball 45 ACP ammo at around 850 fps kick harder than my G20 shooting 200 gr hardcast at 1300 fps. I still think 40 offers a small advantage over both 9mm and 45 ACP. But the advantage isn't enough to justify the added costs, recoil, and reduced mag capacity. I can get practice 9mm for $8/ box. Both 40 and 10mm runs about $14/ box locally and 45's $16/box. I'm sure LE can get bulk prices cheaper, but 9mm is still cheaper and if you shoot a lot it adds up. I like the 40 well enough, but I have a couple of 10mm pistols that do everything better. Ammo is the same price and is just as easy to find anymore.
Most people don't really want the truth.
They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
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Campfire Regular
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Just to add to what I posted earlier, I'm retired now and can carry anything I want. In the warm weather I carry my Glock 43 9mm with a Pearce +1 mag extension for a total of 8 147 grain HST rounds. In my pocket, I carry a spare with a Tango Down/Vickers +2 extension for another 8 rounds. In winter I either carry my Glock 27 .40 loaded with 180 grain HST and a spare in the pocket, or my Gen 5 Glock 19 loaded with Underwood 124 grain +P+ Gold Dots also with a 15 round spare in my pocket or carried in a Nylon Gerber knife sheath that makes a great mag pouch that doesn't alarm people. I feel totally well armed with any of these. Was carrying my Airweight 642 in .38 special in the summer, but the active shooters as of late have given me cause to change my tactics.
Ron
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
Orwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I’d take a G19 over a G23 any day. “Penetration” doesn’t matter with misses. 40 is snappy, even with heavies.
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