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Based on a number of studies, some of which have been discussed on the 'Fire, there is little difference in the effectiveness of 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP assuming top quality defensive ammo is used. 9mm effectiveness is probably more dependent on using the best ammo than .40 and .45, but even then there is not a big difference. 9mm is easier to shoot and hit with, and holds more rounds for the same size gun. For these reasons, 9mm is gaining popularity vs .40 and .45. I think this is mostly due to improved bullets for handgun ammo.

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.40 is certainly unfashionable right now, but it's not going anywhere. There hundreds of thousands of guns out there chambered for it.

For police departments, 9mm is ascendant because of cost of ammo and the need to qualify women officers. That will continue until there's yet another major shootout where the terminal performance of 9mm is found wanting. Then we'll do it all again.

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Originally Posted by RoninPhx

i do get the idea that 9mm can hold more rounds. what i do find funny is the .356 diameter 147grain 9mm flies about like a 38 in the same grain weight. I often refer to the 9mm as a high capacity 38special.
It depends. The Federal HST is rated at 1000fps out of a 4 inch barrel. That being said, I prefer the 124.

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I hope so.

Then I'll buy up a few Glock 22s and Glock 27s and drop in 9mm conversion barrels and be money ahead and have better cartridge, to boot.


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If I was headed to a pistol fight, I would take my Sig P220 .45 ACP and Remington 870.....


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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by Godogs57
I love my Delta Elite 10 mm....I must be way outside the mainstream.
An all steel 1911 in .40 S&W would likely be popular. Should be a lot less snappy in that platform than in something like a Glock 23.


Somewhere in my safe is full size Kimber Classic Stainless Gold Match (not 2) in .40S&W. I used to terrorize USPSA with it before there was 180 different classes and the power factor was still 175.


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Originally Posted by Snyper
The 40 will be around longer than all of us will be.


So will the 30-40 Krag but that doesn't mean it will be relevant.

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not at my house......still use 'em

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I'll stick with my .40 S&W. No issue ever buying ammo for it, and I like that.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by fishdog52
NY State Police dropped the 9mm and adopted the 45 GAP. They had lost several troopers due to multiple failures of the 9mm to instantly neutralize a threat. Not much to argue about.
If you want to discuss expensive ammo, check out 45 GAP. However, it has proven itself several times in service.

"As of January 2018, New York State Troopers are issued the Glock 21 Gen4 chambered in .45 ACP as the service pistol." - Wikipedia

If we're gonna be anal.....Troopers dropped the 9mm in 2007. Began using Glock 37's in the 45 GAP until 2018. Then adopted the ACP.


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Mine, an old custom wide body 1911 Para, is going nowhere.


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Neither is MY CZ 40P.


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Local gun store was broken into one night about 3 years ago.
Bunch of illegals stole an F250 and drove it backwards through glass front wall of store.
4 guys bailed out of cab, 3 of them smashed three glass display cases, 4th went behind counter and started grabbing ARs off wall.
The shop has 4 glass display cabinets full of handguns. The case they didn't break was the one full of 40 cals.
They took over 250 guns in a matter of a couple of minutes by just tossing them in bed of truck. Every 22, 380, 9, 45 and revolver in the store was gone.

And yes quality 40 cal pistols are starting to turn up pretty cheap around here.
Bought a like new M&P 40 w 4 mags a couple weeks back for $275 including tax.
I have been shooting Glock 22s for over 25 years, I own 3 of them.


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The 40 will be at the same level as the 10mm in a few years and be a step above the 357Sig, 45GAP and 38Super.

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In my mind, the 10mm is in another category. It's great as a gun for hiking, fishing etc.in bear country or where there are other potentially dangerous animals. Probably more than needed for self defense in populated areas. But if someone likes it, why not?

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Originally Posted by UPhiker
The 40 will be at the same level as the 10mm in a few years and be a step above the 357Sig, 45GAP and 38Super.

That's what I figure, too.

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Originally Posted by bowmanh
In my mind, the 10mm is in another category. It's great as a gun for hiking, fishing etc.in bear country or where there are other potentially dangerous animals. Probably more than needed for self defense in populated areas. But if someone likes it, why not?

It basically reproduces the old police load for .41 Magnum, which would send a 200-grain semi-wadcutter downrange at around 900 fps.

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I just have too many components & reloaded ammo to drop my 40(s)


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I like them there German 40's.........

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Anyone who says the .40 is "dead" or "dying" is spouting nonsense. It seems to be #3 for full-sized autos. #3 is not dead or dying. The .40 is a "dying caliber" in the same way a .30-06 or .270 or .243 or .30-30 is a "dying caliber". It might be a "worse choice" for many than the 9mm, but it's far more practical than the .45 ACP. M&P9 = 17 rd. M&P40 = 15 rd. M&P45 = 10 rd. Hmmm.

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