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in the market for an o/u in 20 gauge. looking at the ones made in Turkey. any one have any first hand info?
thanks

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I have the ATI Cavalry in 20 ga, comes in around 5.5 lbs or a tad less as I recall.no complaints yet but I’ve only had it two years now.


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Got a few
CZ, tri star mostly. For the money you can't beat either


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Originally Posted by gitem_12
Got a few
CZ, tri star mostly. For the money you can't beat either



Which cz’s ya got gitem?


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Huglu is the Turkish manufacturer for CZ.
I would look at the Churchill for an O/U.


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Originally Posted by Judman
Originally Posted by gitem_12
Got a few
CZ, tri star mostly. For the money you can't beat either



Which cz’s ya got gitem?

I have a Canvasback. A Bobwhit G2 and an All American Trap Single...


For the money the Trap gun is a ton of gun
Out the door was about 1250. But if you put a Browning name on it it would be 4k. Fully adjustable comb and butt stock. Lengthened forcing cones. High rib. Adjustable trigger. And a set of 5 Briley tubes


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I’m in the same boat, looking for a cheap, light upland gun. I’m leaning towards some of the Yildiz guns because of the good reviews. Stevens 555 also seems popular. A guy I shoot skeet with regularly shoots $3000k+ O/Us but got a Tristar Hunter EX at Walmart for $350 and said he loves it.

Depending on your budget, you can also find used Browning’s and Marlin model 90s for the same price as a lot of new Turkish guns.

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Originally Posted by vmax204
Huglu is the Turkish manufacturer for CZ.
I would look at the Churchill for an O/U.

There is a lot more to the Huglu brand, both good and bad, than most realize. It is worth looking into their history.


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Originally Posted by gitem_12
Originally Posted by Judman
Originally Posted by gitem_12
Got a few
CZ, tri star mostly. For the money you can't beat either



Which cz’s ya got gitem?

I have a Canvasback. A Bobwhit G2 and an All American Trap Single...


For the money the Trap gun is a ton of gun
Out the door was about 1250. But if you put a Browning name on it it would be 4k. Fully adjustable comb and butt stock. Lengthened forcing cones. High rib. Adjustable trigger. And a set of 5 Briley tubes


Copy that, how do you like the canvasback?


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It's a very well put together gun. Though I prefer my Franchi instinct

Don't overlook the new Weatherby Orion either. I put 100 rounds through one of the sporting models a few weeks ago on a clays course.


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When it comes to over/unders, it is awfully hard to justify not simply getting a used Beretta.

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Originally Posted by DakotaDeer
When it comes to over/unders, it is awfully hard to justify not simply getting a used Beretta.




When it comes to shotguns-O/U's, semi-auto-I've seen most of the off brand copies eventually fold and go away, with the owner left with something no one wants or can't get repaired when something breaks. Even the best will break with hard use. Renato Gamba is a fine Italian shotgun that tried to gain a place in the American market. They were a good as anything coming out of Italy, but couldn't complete with the established names. Another example would be the Spanish Keman. You practically have to give a Renato Gamba away today in America and the Keman is no longer made. AyA is now no longer making shotguns. However for a SxS, a lower grade Aya Matador would be a much wiser buy than anything coming out of Turkey today.

When it comes to O/U''s, the best move is to save your dollars until you can buy something established. There are more than a few used and reasonably priced Beretta and Browning shotguns out there that would be a smarter purchase than anything coming out of Turkey. Combine it with the fact the Turkish economy is in the trash and the political climate such the stability of any Turkish company is something to consider. Three of the countries that border Turkey are Iran, Iraq and Syria.

Last edited by battue; 08/28/19.

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Over on Upland Journal there is a Beretta 686 Black Onyx for $1150, Beretta BL3 for $1150, and an Uggie side by side for $875. All 20 guages. If I hadn't just bought a new truck.....

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If you don't mind the plain version, you can get a used "Onyx" version Beretta 686 pretty much everyday on Gunbroker for $999.

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Originally Posted by Cheesy
Over on Upland Journal there is a Beretta 686 Black Onyx for $1150, Beretta BL3 for $1150, and an Uggie side by side for $875. All 20 guages. If I hadn't just bought a new truck.....



And either would keep you in the uplands for a lifetime. Will be shopping for a 28 gauge soon and it most likely be a SP 1 . Not as pretty as I want but it will last me the rest of my hunting days .


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Originally Posted by RLA
in the market for an o/u in 20 gauge. looking at the ones made in Turkey. any one have any first hand info?
thanks

Weatherby


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Morning, Bill here. Worry about how it feels in your hands & how it shoulders!!!!., Most machine shops can make any part that will break inside. How it feels etc. Will go farther for you than a $5000.00 of whatever other make ,that doesn't fit you!!!! But there's some reeeely nice old berettas around for cheap cheap. I (once he'd) a little beretta ,,,, S model I think, double triggers, vent rib, was like holding a virgins legs/();:@@@@ sorry off track this morning ! I'm out 🐾👣🐾👣🇨🇦

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Originally Posted by GWPGUY
Morning, Bill here. Worry about how it feels in your hands & how it shoulders!!!!., Most machine shops can make any part that will break inside. How it feels etc. Will go farther for you than a $5000.00 of whatever other make ,that doesn't fit you!!!! But there's some reeeely nice old berettas around for cheap cheap. I (once he'd) a little beretta ,,,, S model I think, double triggers, vent rib, was like holding a virgins legs/();:@@@@ sorry off track this morning ! I'm out 🐾👣🐾👣🇨🇦


Worrying about parts availability IS a serious concern with these Turkish guns as they tend to break much more often than the norm. A machine shop can make any part but it will cost you. Paying $60 for an $8 part to put in a $300 gun (and that is what most Turkish O/U are worth once money changes hands) is not an economical situation, particularly when parts need to be replaced regularly. It also does not consider that a given part may need fitting to operate properly. An O/U or SxS requires more fitting of parts than a pump or autoloader which is one reason they cost more.

The more expensive "higher end" Turkish guns may be more reliable but that is an unknown. Even if they do, parts are a concern as mentioned. As they cost as much or more than the base line Beretta or Browning guns which are proven and have an extensive and long recognized presence here, it would be a much smarter decision to go with them.

I've been bitten by the cheap gun syndrome and it seldom works out in favor of the buyer. Quality costs and is much of the reason for the higher price of some guns. If cost is a concern, look at used guns by Beretta, Browning, and even SKB. You will find something in your desired price range and odds are great it will give longer, trouble free service than an O/U from Turkey.

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Originally Posted by DakotaDeer
When it comes to over/unders, it is awfully hard to justify not simply getting a used Beretta.


I sure do agree with this. Depending on model and condition, it will cost you more up front, but you will have a substantially better gun.


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Originally Posted by battue
Originally Posted by DakotaDeer
When it comes to over/unders, it is awfully hard to justify not simply getting a used Beretta.




When it comes to shotguns-O/U's, semi-auto-I've seen most of the off brand copies eventually fold and go away, with the owner left with something no one wants or can't get repaired when something breaks. Even the best will break with hard use. Renato Gamba is a fine Italian shotgun that tried to gain a place in the American market. They were a good as anything coming out of Italy, but couldn't complete with the established names. Another example would be the Spanish Keman. You practically have to give a Renato Gamba away today in America and the Keman is no longer made. AyA is now no longer making shotguns. However for a SxS, a lower grade Aya Matador would be a much wiser buy than anything coming out of Turkey today.

When it comes to O/U''s, the best move is to save your dollars until you can buy something established. There are more than a few used and reasonably priced Beretta and Browning shotguns out there that would be a smarter purchase than anything coming out of Turkey. Combine it with the fact the Turkish economy is in the trash and the political climate such the stability of any Turkish company is something to consider. Three of the countries that border Turkey are Iran, Iraq and Syria.



Sir, as far as I can tell AyA is still in the business of making firearms. The Spanish shotgun company Ugartechea has closed up shop. I too would take an Old Matador over most of Turkeys offerings at this time.


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Great, I must have got the two mixed up. Thanks for the clarification.


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I have a higher end Huglu, it's fit, finish, engraving, and wood are about as good as any Berretta or Browning. No issues yet, but I do not shoot it a lot. IE not in a trap league. I have read that they can have issues, but do not know personally of one that has. Huglu makes the CZ shotguns. They are more of a community or region that a specific company.

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Chris DeHaan had a good business replacing problem parts on Huglu SxS guns and putting his name on them. He got out of the business as the quality dropped to the point he could no longer fix and sell them at a reasonable price. CZ then took over full importation.

Make that Mark DeHaan, not Chris. Chris is someone else entirely.

Last edited by woodmaster81; 08/31/19.
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Lots of quality O/Us available under a grand these days... Beretta and Win 101s are too good to settle for less.


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Originally Posted by Cheesy
Over on Upland Journal there is a Beretta 686 Black Onyx for $1150, Beretta BL3 for $1150, and an Uggie side by side for $875. All 20 guages. If I hadn't just bought a new truck.....

BL3 there is overpriced. Extractors...


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Been awhile since I've been here. Very interesting thread, and I'm studying all of the replies as I msy be interested in a new/used s x s down the road here. I have noticed there are fewer decent quality s x s shotguns out there than o/u, at least in my part of the world.

Regarding how much one has to spend, I've found a good rule of thumb is "when you buy quality, you only cry once".
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I believe these Kimbers were made in Turkey.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/kimber-shotguns.c723_p1_o6.cfm


I have been playing with the idea of getting rid of my English made guild 12ga SxS. Don't think I could get what I want for it though.

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Originally Posted by driggy
I believe these Kimbers were made in Turkey.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/kimber-shotguns.c723_p1_o6.cfm


I have been playing with the idea of getting rid of my English made guild 12ga SxS. Don't think I could get what I want for it though.


They were and they were a good shotgun. No longer made and if something breaks you have a problem.


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I ended up with a Yildiz Elegant A5 20ga SxS. Have put a few hundred rounds through it already at the skeet range and the dove field. Love it.

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I recently traded a revolver for a CZ Woodcock 20ga w/ 28" barrels. Love that little gun. Man it shoots nice and is just a hoot. I have around 250 rounds through it so far without a hitch actually getting better as it wears in. I see them on sale for around $600 once in a while. I like that gun so much that I'm contemplating selling my Ruger Red Label.


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Originally Posted by DakotaDeer
When it comes to over/unders, it is awfully hard to justify not simply getting a used Beretta.


Or SKB ,CItori etc

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I have a CZ in 28ga. that I like a lot. I have not shot it very much yet, maybe a couple of hundred rounds but no complaints so far

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I have had a Yildiz ME 20/20 for about a year. I really like it. I have put a few hundred rounds through it shooting sporting clays, and I used it dove hunting this past fall. It performed well. I look forward to pheasant hunting with it later on this year. It is a good gun for the money.


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My recommendation on a Turkish shotgun.

NO. NO.............PLAIN NO

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Originally Posted by HCDH66
I have had a Yildiz ME 20/20 for about a year. I really like it. I have put a few hundred rounds through it shooting sporting clays, and I used it dove hunting this past fall. It performed well. I look forward to pheasant hunting with it later on this year. It is a good gun for the money.


I will add that due to the fact that I liked my Yildiz 20 gauge, I recently purchased a Yildiz 12 gauge to go with it. I like them both. Granted, I am not one who shoots 10,000 rounds a year at a sporting clays, trap, or skeet range, but I think they are nice guns for the money. I shoot sporting clays around 10 times per year and upland hunt when I can. They may not be for everyone, but these guns work for me.


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I was researching the new guns from SKB, and found out they are being manufactured in Turkey, possibly the same place the Kimbers were made. May be worth a look.

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Originally Posted by driggy
I was researching the new guns from SKB, and found out they are being manufactured in Turkey, possibly the same place the Kimbers were made. May be worth a look.


The Japanese-made SKB's are excellent... I've shot SKB's for decades - still have at least three (haven't used 'em for years now - shoulder issue.. ). Just me - but I would NOT want one from Turkey...


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Redneck,

I hear what you are saying. I had a 785 Sporting and a 20ga/28ga 385 set. They were on the heavy side, but solid guns. The fact that SKB USA has always been a company that would stand behind their products and the fact that Kimber trusted them, makes me at least give it a second thought.

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I still have an SKB M880 Crown Grade that I bought brand new in '80.. It's still in 98% condition.. It might have 6-700 rounds through it.. Just too nice to use. smile


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I liked the 785. Had to get rid of it to fund the Blaser F3. Got one of the first year of production. Put a few thousand through the 785. Several thousand through the F3.

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Originally Posted by gitem_12
Originally Posted by Judman
Originally Posted by gitem_12
Got a few
CZ, tri star mostly. For the money you can't beat either


Which cz’s ya got gitem?
I have a Canvasback. A Bobwhit G2 and an All American Trap Single...


For the money the Trap gun is a ton of gun
Out the door was about 1250. But if you put a Browning name on it it would be 4k. Fully adjustable comb and butt stock. Lengthened forcing cones. High rib. Adjustable trigger. And a set of 5 Briley tubes

The All American Trap that you are so proud of is made by Akkar for CZ. They are the same Turkish company that produces Churchill shotguns and are a couple steps ahead of Tristrar for sure and if you compare the All American to the Churchill Trap model you will see that the Churchill has even more features than the CZ and personally would choose the Churchill over the CZ.

Last edited by vmax204; 05/26/22.

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I've got CZ Woodcock g2 , TriStar TT -15 Double trap , Yildiz sporting HPS ..
Depends on just game I'm doing which one I like best . The TriStar and Yildiz would battle for 1st. CZ last . Hunting CZ first ..

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I have a .20ga Yildiz that has been a solid little gun in the dove field and teal hunts.


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This is a link to a previous discussion on one of the exact guns of which you are inquiring, the ATI Calvary Sport 20 ga which is imported and marketed by ATI in Summerville, SC. I happen to have an almost exact copy which is fully manufactured in Turkey for Savage as the Stevens 555 series. I did a review of the Stevens 555 20ga - which I happen to have - which I wrote to answer some similar questions raised about the ATI model, which you can read in the discussion in the link.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...633/re-ati-cavalry-20ga-o-u#Post11904633

I still have my 555 for which I remain well pleased and completely satisfied; the only thing I would change about it - which has nothing to do with the quality or shooting characteristics of the shotgun - is that I would prefer to have an automatic safety instead of the manual one. As to comments from others, the only thing I would like to ask is where I can find the empirical or historical anecdotal data supporting one poster's statement that in general all firearms made in Turkey are of poor quality and durability.

Last edited by Offshoreman; 05/26/22.

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I have a Yildiz as several others have mentioned. Mine is the SPZ-ME, it’s a very nice o/u for the money with lots of good reviews.

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Originally Posted by sidepass
Originally Posted by battue
Originally Posted by DakotaDeer
When it comes to over/unders, it is awfully hard to justify not simply getting a used Beretta.



When it comes to shotguns-O/U's, semi-auto-I've seen most of the off brand copies eventually fold and go away, with the owner left with something no one wants or can't get repaired when something breaks. Even the best will break with hard use. Renato Gamba is a fine Italian shotgun that tried to gain a place in the American market. They were a good as anything coming out of Italy, but couldn't complete with the established names. Another example would be the Spanish Keman. You practically have to give a Renato Gamba away today in America and the Keman is no longer made. AyA is now no longer making shotguns. However for a SxS, a lower grade Aya Matador would be a much wiser buy than anything coming out of Turkey today.

When it comes to O/U''s, the best move is to save your dollars until you can buy something established. There are more than a few used and reasonably priced Beretta and Browning shotguns out there that would be a smarter purchase than anything coming out of Turkey. Combine it with the fact the Turkish economy is in the trash and the political climate such the stability of any Turkish company is something to consider. Three of the countries that border Turkey are Iran, Iraq and Syria.


Sir, as far as I can tell AyA is still in the business of making firearms. The Spanish shotgun company Ugartechea has closed up shop. I too would take an Old Matador over most of Turkeys offerings at this time.

Geopolitics and shotguns. I knew getting a Dickinson Plantation might turn out to be like kissing my sister, but the thing about Turkish shotguns is they can make everything (or can) from a Walmart Special to a very, very fine gun. And in the same locale. My Plantation checked every box for me other than weight and the un-notched chokes. Wood is very good. Shoots very well. And I think I got a PR’s good deal. I’ll just try not to break anything on it.

With a Browning Citori Feather Superlight 16 O/U and an older Sig Rizzini 20 O/U, I’ll spread out the work. Speaking of the Rizzini’s (Italy), there are three different brothers turning them out from three different shops now. Must have been an uncomfortable holiday family get-together in the past that didn’t go well. The kicker is they’ve something like 4 different choke types spread throughout their models now. Mine has an older flush fit type that Briley will make some for.

At to the Turkeys, you pays your money, you takes your chances I guess. I still think there are good values. Separate the fence posts from the finer. better built ones.

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If we don’t change a lot of things in November, and in 2024, the least of our worries will be where our shotguns were made.

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