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The previously mentioned Pre-64 M70 notwithstanding with the same action length and a spacer block for the .308, most .308's today are made on shorter and therefore stiffer actions which the target guys seem to appreciate. For hunting accuracy it sure wouldn't matter. I carry a rifle a whole bunch more than I shoot it and I rework my serious hunting rifles into light weigh stocks with shorter, lighter barrels. I made a perfectly good .308 into an even more perfect 7# 7mm-08 and split your difference. In retrospect just shooting factory ammo, the .308 would have been less expensive to shoot in the long run and no animal would be able to tell the difference.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Brad,

I have yet to find the higher sectional density of the .270 with equal-weight bullets makes any difference in killing big game--and between Eileen and I we have taken a bunch of animals with both over the decades, in both North America and Africa. What does make a difference is bullet construction, per usual.


With cup and core bullets, of equal construction, the higher SD bullet may not kill any better, but they will absolutely penetrate deeper (270/150 vs 308/150).


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Originally Posted by Brad


With cup and core bullets, of equal construction, the higher SD bullet may not kill any better, but they will absolutely penetrate deeper (270/150 vs 308/150).


No ref. to MD, but that point certainly is lost on some today.

Equal construction is the key point.

Jerry


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The reason I have a 308 over a 270 is I can use the same 30cal bullets in my 30-06,300WSM or 300Win Mag if I choose to.


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As Bob Hagel would say"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."Good words of wisdom...............
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Quote
With cup and core bullets, of equal construction, the higher SD bullet may not kill any better, but they will absolutely penetrate deeper (270/150 vs 308/150).


If all else is equal, perhaps. SD is a metric oft relied on to riddle expected results, but there are so many other factors at play that it is a guess on the best of days. It is nothing more than a ratio of weight/diameter that will begin to change as soon as the target is met. What is the SD when 30% of weight is lost? What is it when the bullet begins to tumble. The world of terminal ballistics is one of the last remaining scientific black holes in shooting sports and I suggest one not spend a lot of time theorizing about what happens and the results thereof. Just put the bullet where it needs to go.


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Originally Posted by Starman
..??



.308 is short action, and not gay.


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Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Quote
With cup and core bullets, of equal construction, the higher SD bullet may not kill any better, but they will absolutely penetrate deeper (270/150 vs 308/150).


If all else is equal, perhaps. SD is a metric oft relied on to riddle expected results, but there are so many other factors at play that it is a guess on the best of days. It is nothing more than a ratio of weight/diameter that will begin to change as soon as the target is met. What is the SD when 30% of weight is lost? What is it when the bullet begins to tumble. The world of terminal ballistics is one of the last remaining scientific black holes in shooting sports and I suggest one not spend a lot of time theorizing about what happens and the results thereof. Just put the bullet where it needs to go.


There's a pretty well established relationship between SD and penetration in conventional bullets. Nice thing about penetration is fairly empirical results can be arrived at even by a layman. So in the case of the 270/308/150, it's really not a "black hole" at all. And I promise a 150 Partition from a 270 will out-penetrate a 150 Partition from a 308. So what's better, putting a "bullet where it needs to go" that penetrates more or less? Generally the difference matters little, but occasionally on bigger, big game it might.




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I know a guy...ahem,who once killed two bull elk with a single 150 grain Nosler Partition. Two lung shot bulls,two very short blood trails in the snow. Totally unintended,didn't even see the second bull.Which was tagged and eaten by hunting partner. All this was years ago and the statute has run. grin

But the 270 with a 150 Grain Nosler Partition is capable of any animal in North America,just ask Phil Shoemaker how it works on Brown Bears.

I'm not sure the 308 with a 150 grain Partition is as capable. One could step up to heavier bullets in the 308 but velocity begins to fall off as you do.

I have wanted a Pre 64 Featerweight since I read Bill Jordan of Border Patrol fame write about his. Bill's gun was originally chambered in 308,and Bill sent it back to Winchester and had them fit a 270 barrel and convert the rifle to 270. Bill's go to bullet was the 150 grain Partition which he used for everything.

Reading his exploits as well as O'Connor made me a 270 Partition fan.
But I will admit to deer hunting with a Sako Mannlicher in 308 because of John Wooters. grin

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Originally Posted by ruraldoc

But I will admit to deer hunting with a Sako Mannlicher in 308 because of John Wooters. grin


Well..... it doesn't take much to influence some....huh . laugh laugh

Joking of course. I'm a Wooters fan too.


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A .308 win probably is a better general choice. I don't own one anymore. The 30/06 and .270 are my choices for western game.With a 30/06 on hand the .308 fills no need...not into platforms, just turn bolts and leverguns

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Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Quote
With cup and core bullets, of equal construction, the higher SD bullet may not kill any better, but they will absolutely penetrate deeper (270/150 vs 308/150).


If all else is equal, perhaps. SD is a metric oft relied on to riddle expected results, but there are so many other factors at play that it is a guess on the best of days. It is nothing more than a ratio of weight/diameter that will begin to change as soon as the target is met. What is the SD when 30% of weight is lost? What is it when the bullet begins to tumble. The world of terminal ballistics is one of the last remaining scientific black holes in shooting sports and I suggest one not spend a lot of time theorizing about what happens and the results thereof. Just put the bullet where it needs to go.


There's a pretty well established relationship between SD and penetration in conventional bullets. Nice thing about penetration is fairly empirical results can be arrived at even by a layman. So in the case of the 270/308/150, it's really not a "black hole" at all. And I promise a 150 Partition from a 270 will out-penetrate a 150 Partition from a 308. So what's better, putting a "bullet where it needs to go" that penetrates more or less? Generally the difference matters little, but occasionally on bigger, big game it might.




In the absence of fact, theory is fine.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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I've had better luck getting excellent accuracy out of cast bullets in the 270, and at some scorching speeds (for cast bullets). Longer neck helps in that regard. For jacketed bullets, I can see a thin advantage going to the 308....shorter action, less powder, more suitable powders, component availability, yada yada yada, but I can't see that one could ever tell the difference between the two on animals big or small, as long as the right bullets were used.


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Originally Posted by DigitalDan
In the absence of fact, theory is fine.


Not theory, fact. You can easily test the two for yourself. Sorry that doesn't fit in one of your pre-conceived boxes...


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As the O/P I will say this;

Theres a place for compact .308 rifles , but they have never suited me even after trying three of them.
Ruger UL, Rem.mod. 7, and Miroku BLR... all had 20"...but each time I began missing my longer barrels.

The best feeling .308 I've handled was; Wby ultra-LW, based on a long-action with 24"
it doesn't sound right or ideal for a .308win, but it felt great at 5-3/4 lbs.

cutting it back to 23" would be my idea of a compact enough rifle .. grin


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Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
In the absence of fact, theory is fine.


Not theory, fact. You can easily test the two for yourself. Sorry that doesn't fit in one of your pre-conceived boxes...


Riddle me this. Why does the bullet from a CCI CB Short penetrate more than that of a .22 LR when applied to the same anatomical region on hogs?


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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My first experience with the ".308" was in the form referred to as the 7.62x51 NATO. Did not care for it in the M14, but found it quite functional when belt fed thru miniguns or M60s. Have no idea how much I burned up, but know there were some days when 10K rounds were sprinkled here and there around I Corps. My sentiments toward the round are the same as those on the 5.56. Don't care if i ever shoot another round of either. Never shot a round of .270 or lusted for one.

Use whatever works and have a good hunt or three this fall.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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Just plain preference. Both work.

MAYBE the 308 Win... IF it has a 1-12" twist, if you plan on serious cast bullet shooting.

Both are great. Pick one and just shoot it.


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I hate 270’s.

I love short actions.

But, Brad’s right. The 270 150 will out-penetrate the 308 150 in bigger big game. For thin skinned Whitetail’s, swing with who swung ya, dance with who brung ya.


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Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
In the absence of fact, theory is fine.


Not theory, fact. You can easily test the two for yourself. Sorry that doesn't fit in one of your pre-conceived boxes...


Riddle me this. Why does the bullet from a CCI CB Short penetrate more than that of a .22 LR when applied to the same anatomical region on hogs?


I'm wondering where 150 Partitions are the basis for a point on "conventional" bullets?

S.D. often falls to pieces about the time the bullet falls to pieces; my money is on a 30/30's ability to dig if we're talking 150 cup and core spitzers....or the Krag.

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Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Originally Posted by Brad
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
In the absence of fact, theory is fine.


Not theory, fact. You can easily test the two for yourself. Sorry that doesn't fit in one of your pre-conceived boxes...


Riddle me this. Why does the bullet from a CCI CB Short penetrate more than that of a .22 LR when applied to the same anatomical region on hogs?

Newton's Third Law.
Look here for more on Newton.


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