Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats 358 winchester - 'modern' style?

For some reason I've always wanted a 358

I definitely shoot better with a vertical pistol grip and adj comb. I really like my Game Warden stocked 243 and plan on duplicating it in something bigger.

Sensible says get a 308 but I'm tempted with a 358 even though on paper the 308 is a better fit to my style of shooting ie spot and stalk including fields and clear cuts perhaps out to 300yards with limited time to range etc and for big deer and moose shot stationary 95%.

If I did it would be:-

Adjustable Game Warden
M700 ss 21" remington mag sporter profile or similar to get weight forward
Williams ss bdl plate
Trigger tech
Burris Signature Zees
4-16 scope with clicks
Suppressor

A pointy bullet would be nice but the 200gr AB needs more length I gather which would mean Wyatt? What are real world 200/225gr velocities from a 20/21" barrel? What does a 200gr AB at 358 velocity bring to the party that a 165gr 308 doesn't? Heart says 358, head says 308.

For shots out to 300 yds. the .308 would me a better choice, the .358 is more of a 100 yd. cartridge. A well constructed 165gr, bullet should do what you're looking to do, for years metallic silhouette shooters used 168gr. bullets in .308 with great success. Some used 190gr. for the rams @ 500 meters.

I want one myself. Despite the somewhat lackluster numbers on paper I've always read and heard that they just flat out kill with authority. Is it practical probably not but practical isn't always fun. I've got a 243 model Seven predator that I'm gonna see if it has enough meat for a rebore to 358. I'll ad a brake so I can shoot it comfortably and have a hard hitting medium game rifle.

Compare the MPBR with a 165gr in the .308 and a 200gr in the .358.
Without running the numbers, I'm guessing the gap is within 20-25 yards.

My longest elk kill with my 20” .358win, is 257 yards with the Sierra 225......

A big Roosie cow that didn’t travel 20 feet after the hit.

It’s just trajectory and if your twisting turrets, it makes no difference.......

SKane that's awesome, lol.

240-250 yd MPBR would be a lot closer WAG.

For big deer and moose to 300 yards I wouldn't be fooling around with any 4-16 power scopes.

The suppressor is the build killer here. Nobody I know of is making a rifle suppressor for a .358 rifle. There are a couple of .50BMG suppressors, but those things are huge and heavy. Next size down is a .338 and those are sized for Lapua. So, unless you are going to Form 1 and build it yourself, finding a suppressor for a .358 is a no-go. It is probably the only reason I don't have on in the stable right now.

I think that Ruger made some American Rifles in 358. If you could get into one of them for a reasonable price, you could test drive the 358 and determine if you actually like it.

Wizdom

Gunswizard, where do you come up with this crap? If you are that bad of a shot just get closer. Good hunters do. DON'T PARROT EVERYTHING YOU READ UNLESS YOU KNOW IT TO BE TRUE! Be Well. Rusty

358 is a Fine round. 338 Federal also. If me I'd run 3 bullets: Pistol bullets like 158s for plinking, they do hell on jugs to 200, yes fall out at 300. For hunting game, a 225 Sierra for deer, likely work on most other game. If you want some insurance, a 225 Partition would be my ONE LOAD for anything up thru Moose, large Bear.

Nothing wrong with either of the above mid-bore rounds to 300 on game. I PREFER a higher BC and SD so 225s for me in a 35 on game.

Scope? Nothing over 10x for your use, if me. 21" is a great length, no more needed, a bit less blast than say a 19-20, but splitting hairs, speeds will be similar.
Handling is what you want, and shootabilitiy which is affected by balance. I would skip any suppressor or brake, ear plugs and muffs at range, plugs in field are easy so your ears will do just fine, even if you forget the plugs when hunting. More of a boom than crack, and most powder burned in that larger bore size.

That said, Yes, a 308 in a sporter chopped at 21" will get the same jobs done, but the larger the game, I would be a bit more inclined to go larger bore to 35.

35s do put some serious hurt on game, on impact....large exit if needed for a large but short blood trail. Good hunting.

My brother and I have 358 Wins. His is a plain jane Ruger Hawkeye and mine is a BLR. Neither one of them are slouches in hunting ability. Sure, they aren't 300 magnums, but he runs his with 200 Accubonds at 2620 and I use the 225 Partition or Sierra at 2475. We both have the incredibly simple Burris FFII's on the guns, his is a 3x9 and mines a 2x7. With a tiny bit of ballistic calculator math it is really pretty easy to hammer 10" steel at 400 yards and that is with a 150 yard zero on the main reticle. So, saying it is a 100 yard cartridge is crazy, my slug guns were worse in all ways and they didn't have troubles knocking deer over to 150 yards. Not a knock on the 308 either, great cartridge, but if a fella wants a hammer that digs deep enough and makes big leaky holes and desires a 358 why would someone talk him out of it? I mean, it's not like it hard to make or find brass and the darned things are EASY to load for as well.

If you put a scope with dials on it, it'd be even easier but we just wanted these for holding/stalking/walking guns that are different, hit deer hard and aren't horrible to shoot.. But a 100 yard cartridge it is not..

Prime example of someone that ain’t hunted/killed much,

🤣🤣

Nah, the suppressor isn't that much of a problem. One example off the shelf is the Liberty Mystic X. I don't remember offhand but the Griffin Optimus might do it as well, and there are at least a couple others to look at.

Corrected.

My 358 wssm has close to 358 win velocities.

Here is a drop chart of my rifle shooting the 225 Accubond at 2425 fps.

......yeah.....100 yds. 🥴

I'd say amplified. I was trying to be subtle.

Thanks all - sounds encouraging.

One thing has me concerned - velocity over 200 might cause limited expansion?

In a rifle like that, I'd do the 308 with a bit longer bbl.

That 358Win chambering, stock, short barrel, suppressor & high powered scope come together to make a goofy combo.

I’m my case with the 225 Accubond the minimum velocity is 1800.....that takes you to 350

The 358 reminds me of the a10 warthog. Not fast or flashy but they hammer $hit hard.

Re: the above trajectory chart, I always sight POA/POI at 200 yds.....a good read below.

http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/358_wcf.htm

A miracle 250 yard shot off sticks with the 200 gr TTSX.

Here’s my modern .358 win. from Alamo Precision Rifles. 20” barrel with carbon stock. It shot factory Hornady 200 SP okay in the pic. However, necked up Lapua .308 brass, TAC powder, 200 TSX, lit by CCI250’s produce 5 shot groups in the .3”s

I like it.

The Barrett Fieldcraft with the 3" mag box and a sporter'ish barrel contour would be a nice little package for a hunting .358.

Handsome rifle you've got there!
I shoot the 200 TTSX along with TAC in mine too.

Great pic, and I love that rifle of yours!

I have the modern 358 win. It's called a 338 Federal. I'm shooting 210 gr Partitions at 2600. The trajectory isnt the issue with a good scope. I put a NF SHV on mine to dial if needed - which I'm not expecting to. The issue with the 358/338 308 based cartridges is remaining velocity when said bullet arrives. Keep the bullet within its design parameters and your good to at least 300 yards.

That said, these cartridges are designed for 'woods' carry. I'd define that as inside of 200 yards. I'm taking mine elk hunting in October and plan to be able to shoot out to 350 - even with the Partitin "ping-pong" balls. I'd bet an elk shows up at sub 100 and takes a 210 Partition through the lungs. I'd bet he dont go far. I thinking if he shows up at 300, I'll have the same result.

I like the 180 Barnes in my 358. It was made in 56 when I was 3 years old. We ain’t too modern

.358 = Thor's Hammer
100 yards? I rorr on froor raffin' too much GI!

WOW! I guess a 30-30 is about a 40 yard gun then???

If you are trying to not appear dumb, you're doing a really, really bad job at it

Your post reveals just how stupid you are. GFY.

This 358Win is my favorite rifle for many reasons...


I had my CTR re-bored/chambered by JES to 358Win as well...


Great Versatile Cartridge

Thanks for the pictures. I enjoy seeing the many variations of 358s around. You don't find much ammo anywhere. Be Well. Rusty

Reloading is your friend for this chambering.

I could like that with a 2-7ish scope and a 22" bbl.

Thinking the Ruger is a RL model. I have a RL in .308, came without factory sights, is also my favorite. Would love to find one in .358.

Re: the 338F and elk, seems one of the authors, maybe Layne Simpson knocked off one with a 185 Barnes right at 310 yds. Both rounds are good to that distance if you have a decent BC to yield terminal speed on arrival. Cheap pistol bullets are an advantage of the 35 bore. Again, they make hell on water jugs at 200 yds, rivals a 6BR w/70 TNT or 220 swift

Re: the 338F and elk, seems one of the authors, maybe Layne Simpson knocked off one with a 185 Barnes right at 310 yds. Both rounds are good to that distance if you have a decent BC to yield terminal speed on arrival. Cheap pistol bullets are an advantage of the 35 bore. Again, they make hell on water jugs at 200 yds, rivals a 6BR w/70 TNT or 220 swift

My M7 Predator .243 is.665 at the muzzle - which is plenty for a rebore to .358. That's a great idea for a project, BTW,
Rex

Just got off the phone with JES. Plenty of meat for a 358 rebore on the 243 predator. I'm sending mine to him right after Labor Day. $250 and that includes return shipping.

To the guy who indicates there are no suppressors for 358 look at 9MM. Bill Wilson of Wilson Combat says his 9MM suppressor works on 358 Winchester also. Soooo. What's the problem? Didn't hit the due diligence button? Won't stoop to gunswizard's lack of propriety. Read something in a gun rag and assume it's true?? Don't be a parrot. Be Well. Rusty

GFY

If I were you, I'd be sweating an allergic reaction from the irony of you calling someone dimwitted.

Wizdumb...really funny.

Maybe he thinks “GFY” means Good For You.

Way to see the positive Rick!

Load the 225grain Sierra HPBT game king to 2400 to 2500 would be fine out to 300 yards.
Bob

I purchased this one here, 18 1/2" barrel has had no issues putting pigs down at 200-250yds using factory Winchester Super-X 200gr Power Point or Hornady Custom 200gr Interlock. Target is 4rds of Hornady factory @ 100yds.

I am planning on having a 358 built on a Model 7 action I have.

I have a newer Win 70 rebored by JES to .358 Win that I bought used here. Have previously had several rifles in this chamber. Currently have a 1.75-6 Leupold with HD duplex on this rifle. Getting smaller than 1" groups at 100 yards with both 225 grain Partitions and Accubonds over 50 grains of TAC. Thinking I need to put a different scope on it since it appears to be a 300 to 400 yard cartridge with proper bullets.

Read page one...... posting before I read page two and three here.
Just gonna say I’m on my THIRD 358 Win rifle, a Ruger American from the few (two or three hundred?) that Grice ordered.
What an enjoyable cartridge! Owned at least one since 1985, and can’t say enough.
308’s are GREAT, too - I make 358 cases out of them! 😆🤣

(And, NO, 35 caliber bullets don’t fall out of the sky just past 100 yards... LOL! - just jerking your chain!)

And... it PAINS me to say - I had an original Winchester Model 70 FWT in 358 and.... sold... it....😱. Oh the PAIN of greediness and wanting a profit 😞.

Alaninga, I bet that was a tough pill to swallow. I had a XTR Win-Tuf 300 Weatherby that was pristine. Killed my first elk with it. I had a coworker offer a ridiculous amount of money for it, he still owns it today. There is not a day that goes by that I don't regret that transaction.

Huge face palm.....I agree.

FOR THE WIN!!!

Priceless, PERFECT ANSWER!! SPEAKS VOLUMES MORE THEN much anything else ya coulda wrote. 100% understanding... As my friend says... Some peoples Children...
Love the 358 and its a dynamite cast bullet caliber too!!!
CW

Quite simular story here too!!

My first was a BLR 358 bought used about 1985. Had a Leupold M8 3X Scope.

Second was a Ruger 77 pristine condition bought about 1992.

Last is a Ruger American. One of the LAST that Grice sold. I called Grice. They wanted my dealer to call. He dropped the ball and didnt call for two weeks. In that time Grice sold out!!! I was quite upset, But didn't give my dealer Much of a hard time. My buddy, spoke with the dealer. He discovered he had a friend of a friend who was a employee at Grice. They had one rifle that they had shot a bit and was gonna put on GB. He grabbed it for me. It was in fine shape. Only bolt wear and who likes that corduroy pants noice anyhow!!

I bought it and saved a few $$ at same time.

The 77 ruger was sold to my uncle (with contingency I BUY IF HE SELLS!) and the BLR was sold in a moment of stupidity.

Liking the 35's

What SKane said!
Love the 358.
As for the 338 Federal.........................338RCM baby!

I've got a M7 predator in 243 win one of the sweetest handling hunting rifles I've ever used on antelope and wouldn't even consider modifying the barrel with a rebore till it's shot out. 358? Think I'll just load my Whelen down a notch and see if that makes me wax eloquently but if I run my Whelen at Whelen speeds is it only good for 125 yds? I better drink some more coffee and do some work before all this theoretical stuff dazes me. MB

The latest Hornady load manual is telling, illustrating the basic physics that. for a given bullet weight, and pressure, the .358 Win has to be able to achieve higher velocity than the .338 Fed.
With the 200 grain spire points, Hornady got 2700 FPS in the .358 Win with TAC, but only 2650 in the .338 Fed. This mirrors Mule Deer's results in his Handloader #254 article.

If you want to see the .358 come alive, try the 200 TTSX with however much TAC gets you 2700 FPS. It took Hornady (IIRC) 52.4 grains. Mule Deer got about 2745 with the 200 TSX and 52/TAC.
My rifle is a Savage 99, so I back it off to 51 grains for 2685 (though I shot it last week at 95 degrees and it went just over 2700).

Then go run the numbers for energy and trajectory. Note these are at 7300' MSL, the elevation where I'll hunt elk this fall.
3" high at 100 yards, +2.1" at 200, on at 240, 5" low at 300, 18" low at 400 (hold on the hairline, center-punch the vitals). 1840 ft-lbs at 400, with over 2000 FPS to expand the TTSX. I don't expect or want to shoot an elk at 400 with my .358, but could if I had to.

I've no doubt the .338 Fed would pass (or at least catch up to) the .358 somewhere out there, but the .358 is punching a little bigger hole.
I recently got some 200 NABs but I fear they won't work too well in the .358 due to the ogive being almost into the case when loaded to short action OAL. I can hold up to 2.9" in the savage though, so maybe they'll be OK.

Cheers,
Rex

I come back to this every now and then for some humor. I guess the time for another good wisecrack is over. Too bad. Maybe gun rags have gone past their usefulness. Be Well, Rustyzipper.

“Deer or moose out to three hundred with little time to range” (paraphrase mine) — Forget the telescope and think 4x, 6x, 1.5-5, 13/4-6x, or 2-7x and forget the turrets. Sight in at 200 yds and you will have no hold over on an elk or moose and barely any on a big deer.

Bingo, point and kill. It ain’t rocket surgery.

I miss that one bad!!

My SilencerCo Hybrid-46 would work fine for the 358. Got me thinking about converting a Ruger #3.

Let me be the one wet blanket in all this.

I retired my "Whelenizer" in 2014. It is a Rem 7600 in 35 Whelen that I downloaded to 358 WIN-ish levels. I shot 200 grain RN out of it through most of its career. It produced 1-2 deer a year. My reason for the download was that I was never going to be shooting more than 250 yards with it, and the game was going to be 100% whitetail. The extra shock and awe just wasn't needed.

Honestly, I never saw the huge dividend in power. Yes, it had a distinctive report. Everyone on nearby ridges knew when I'd taken a shot. Yes, it was a bit more recoil than my 30-06. No, it didn't make the deer any deader. I'm not going to say it was a bust. 10 deer in 10 years is a pretty good record. However, I went back to a 30-06 shooting 165 grainers, and immediately went returned to DRT toes-in-the-air performance. The deer I shot would all die. However, they were more prone to running a bit. I'd say on average 70 yards or so.

Was that significant? It meant that more often I'd have to cross a fence and pull the deer out into the pasture. Some people would say it was a negligible difference.

You have to understand that I frequently fill my last tag in the latter part of the season when its getting rather inclement. I often take to my luxury blind, and its from there that I shoot my last doe. The shots are uniformly at 150-175 yards and I'm firing off a sand bag. This is about as close as you can get to an apples-to-apples comparison. Dropping them in the middle of the field also gives me the bonus of a chance to roll the truck right up and load them without any fuss.

I'm not going to say 358 WIN or 35 Whelen is a flop on whitetail. I'm just saying I did not see a huge performance boost. Someone somewhere suggested I try anchoring them in the shoulder. I tried that. The result was an anchored animal, but major devastation and an unusable shoulder roast.

One other note: I started using an 8X57 Kar 98 for the past few years, and I've been equally impressed with it as far as its shot-n-drop capabilities.

Shaman: The reason you had that result is that you were running the wrong bullet at the wrong speeds for the distances you were hunting.

Starting at .358 Winchester velocities, a round nose 200gr .358 bullet is no better than a mild factory 35 Remington load by 100 yards. At 175 yards that bullet (the way you loaded it) is basically like a .357 magnum load from a carbine. All of which is to say: of course you were not getting any bang-flops. Your results were basically predictable.

Run a sleeker bullet at appropriate speeds to your hunting distances and you will get the full Whelen experience. You can verify this for yourself by buying one box of factory 200gr superformance loads. At 175 yards they should still be going fast enough to clobber deer, not just kill them.

Folks don’t be afraid to use a 225 Sierra
Higher BC.
You’re welcome 😉

Next week I'm going to a local friend's range to shoot my Lone Eagle. It is a fun gun. I have only killed one doe with it. I figure some time this season I will try it out on deer. I suppose with a 358 Winchester in a pistol I will have to get within 20 feet, eh gunswizard? Be Well, RZ.

That’s a fact. Not a better deer killer in my book. Pretty accurate in both my Whelen and 358.

[img]https://hosting.photobucket.co...8E_B973_79395893B9FA_IMG_6398.HEIC[/img]

To me, all one needs are 2 bullets for a 358 for game. The 225 Sierra, and if one goes after really big stuff, the 225 Partition. Odds may well be the Sierra will dump the larger game just as well.

For plinking, the 158 handgun bullets are loads of fun, less recoil, move out fast, but fall off after 200 yds......though could do in deer up to around 250 yds on lung shots..though I'd never substitute for a 225, unless woods hunting at a reduced load. 2000 fps like a 357 mag rifle will dump deer fine in the woods.

Other than that, the 125 and 140 JHP would be hell on varmints, if one wanted to vaporize say crows and coyotes........

But for deer and up, give me a 225 in any 35 and I will be happy.

That's all I run in my 358's and whelen, neither need to run designer bullets to make meat..