24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 10 11
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,999
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,999
20 years ago I ran a string of 7 pack goats, Toggenburg and Alpine. They were all wethers and as friendly as a Lab, Once they got above timberline they would go crazy, doing handstands on the edge of cliffs and stuff.At night kelp them tied on a low line, similar to a highline only on the ground. I would run the lowline in the shape of a V and sleep at the top of the V. NOTHING could sneak in on us at night with all those ears, eyes and noses.

BTW they made the BEST mule deer decoys. Sit up on a mountain side with all my goats around and wait for the deer to creep in. However at night mountain lions like to prowl.

If you don't have the book "The Pack Goat" by John Mionczynski get a copy.


When the tailgate drops the BS stops.
BP-B2

Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 7,821
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 7,821
That's another term I'm not familiar with is "wethers". What's that mean?


"Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem."
Ronald Reagan
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,264
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,264
Originally Posted by JCMCUBIC
Excellent. Thanks for the updates.

Hope that Gunnar recovers. Goats are truly vicious if one is weak or they can take advantage of it...empathy does not exist.


For sure, he had cuts and bruising all up and down his belly and groin area. Bunch of a holes.


Originally Posted by StoneCutter
This is a really interesting thread.

I know nothing about goats. What is a pastern?


It’s like the joint below the dewclaw above the hoof. The dewclaw is almost hitting the ground now


Originally Posted by StoneCutter
That's another term I'm not familiar with is "wethers". What's that mean?


It means boys whose stones are cut off

Reba,
I first got that book in the early 90s and had wanted to try pack goats ever since. There’s a few other resources on them out there but that was a great read too.

Do you have any old photos to share?


"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,747
J
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
J
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,747
Originally Posted by exbiologist


Originally Posted by StoneCutter
This is a really interesting thread.

I know nothing about goats. What is a pastern?


It’s like the joint below the dewclaw above the hoof. The dewclaw is almost hitting the ground now



It's common to get leg/hip/pastern injuries if one has been beat on. Often the attacker(s) will catch the back leg of the attacked between their horns and lift/twist/ram. I've seen legs broken. It's more likely to happen with the "tighter" more upright horns like your goats have with little space between them. The wider and more open kiko horns make it less of a problem.

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,999
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,999
My goat packing was before digital cameras.


When the tailgate drops the BS stops.
IC B2

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,293
W
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
W
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,293

...i really enjoy this thread. And it all looks like more than alittle high adventure fun!

Terrific scenes.


Thanks for the update


Trump HAD the World, ", Trump saw our children, "
Trump saw a way to make a brighter day so he started giving
There was a choice he was making, he was saving our own lives
Its true he made a brighter day for you and me. --Trump WINS 2016
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,882
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,882
Really like this thread and pictures. Very interesting, can’t wait for your hunt report.

Until now I thought the best way to pack goats was one on each side of a big mule. grin

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,871
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,871
Had goats growing up on the homestead in western Canada, it is interesting how they deal with dogs and yotes no backing down. Enjoying you taking us along, keep up the good work. Cheers NC

Last edited by northcountry; 07/05/19.

don't judge until you have walked a mile in other persons' moccasins'
SUM QUOD SUM........HOMINEM TE ESSE MEMENTO
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,264
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,264
Originally Posted by JCMCUBIC
Originally Posted by exbiologist


Originally Posted by StoneCutter
This is a really interesting thread.

I know nothing about goats. What is a pastern?


It’s like the joint below the dewclaw above the hoof. The dewclaw is almost hitting the ground now



It's common to get leg/hip/pastern injuries if one has been beat on. Often the attacker(s) will catch the back leg of the attacked between their horns and lift/twist/ram. I've seen legs broken. It's more likely to happen with the "tighter" more upright horns like your goats have with little space between them. The wider and more open kiko horns make it less of a problem.


Any thought as to how to heal the pasterns or would he be a lost cause to you?


"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,747
J
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
J
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,747
Originally Posted by exbiologist
Originally Posted by JCMCUBIC
Originally Posted by exbiologist


Originally Posted by StoneCutter
This is a really interesting thread.

I know nothing about goats. What is a pastern?


It’s like the joint below the dewclaw above the hoof. The dewclaw is almost hitting the ground now



It's common to get leg/hip/pastern injuries if one has been beat on. Often the attacker(s) will catch the back leg of the attacked between their horns and lift/twist/ram. I've seen legs broken. It's more likely to happen with the "tighter" more upright horns like your goats have with little space between them. The wider and more open kiko horns make it less of a problem.


Any thought as to how to heal the pasterns or would he be a lost cause to you?


Sorry, just saw this. Our focus is MUCH different than yours so I really can't say. For us, as long as the animal's not in pain or debilitated badly we've let time heal things up. We separate one if it's injured enough that it's going to be picked on but try to keep it with a younger female that (hopefully) won't beat on it.

Again, I can't give much advise on healing aside from keeping them separate so they have time to heal. We've had several goats over the years injured that have made it but carried a limp....still have two now...and they're good producers and don't seem to be in pain....but again our use is much different than packing.

IC B3

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,341
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,341

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,264
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,264
Yep, who do you think mobilized them? About 40 of the most recent comments are all from pack goat people and my local state house rep said he would comment on the proposed ban today too.


"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,068
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,068
Has CO done anything to outlaw llamas along with the goats? I've read that some states and provinces have attempted to ban them as a 'just in case' in spite of the fact there is no proof whatever that llamas can transmit disease to wild sheep or goats.
There was an attempt in Idaho some years ago to ban all pack animals from the Sawtooth Wilderness area but that wasn't because of disease. It turned out to be some elitist backpackers who didn't like to see manure on the trails. It didn't get very far with the Forest Svc.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,264
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,264
Yes the Dominguez-Escalante National Conservation Area bans both llamas and pack goats but doesn’t ban domestic sheep grazing, though they claim to want to convert the sheep allotments to

Last edited by exbiologist; 07/10/19.

"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,068
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,068
On a related line...this article appeared in our paper today. The South Hills are a band of low mountains in so. Idaho between the Snake River and the NV & UT borders. About 30 years ago, the IDFG attempted to transplant some bighorns to build a herd in the area. They've never increased much and have had disease problems. There are domestic sheep and goats in the area. They don't say if the diseases can be traced to them but the bighorns have had a rough time of it.
The IDFG finally gave it up. Rather than doing what the liberals would do, ban the sheep and goats that have grazed the area for over 100 years, they eliminated the last 4 bighorns to keep them from spreading their diseases.

JEROME — The Idaho Department of Fish and Game has lethally removed the South Hills’ last four bighorn sheep.

Fish and Game believes that the two ewes and two young rams represented the last remnants of a reintroduction effort that took place between 1986 and 1993.

Fifty bighorn sheep were released in the South Hills’ Unit 54 during that time period, but the population struggled from the outset. Bighorns in the Big Cottonwood area of the South Hills died off, and even though more sheep were introduced, the species continued to have difficulty maintaining healthy numbers.

By 2010, Fish and Game estimated the South Hills was home to 15 bighorns, and due to the proximity of domestic sheep and goat herds, the department determined new reintroductions posed too great of a disease risk — nearby domestic goat and sheep herds threatened to spread respiratory diseases to new bighorns. The population declined further in the 2010s, falling to an estimated 10 in 2017.

Fish and Game said in a press release Wednesday that lethally removing the remaining bighorns was necessary in order to avoid spreading disease. Wildlife managers became increasingly concerned that small South Hills population would travel outside of the South Hills and infect healthy bighorn sheep herds in other areas with respiratory diseases, causing die-offs.

In an effort to avoid the spread of disease, Fish and Game issued bighorn sheep hunting tags for aging rams in 2017 and 2018.

Fish and Game collected biological samples from the final four bighorns after putting them down. The meat from the four animals was processed and sent to local food banks.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,101
A
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
A
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,101

Nobody knows if lungworm was introduced by domestic livestock or if it was always here. There is increasing evidence though domestic sheep (and domestic goats) carry a lot of lungworm into the bighorn range and increase the chances of infection. Today, lungworm is everywhere, but it is the densities of the bacteria in areas where domestic sheep graze that are the problem. Lower densities of domestic sheep means lower densities of bacteria. Where there are less domestic sheep, generally it is less likely bighorns will contract pneumonia. That doesn't mean bighorn herds haven't contracted pneumonia, but overall there is a trend.


Casey

Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,264
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,264
I think I found my limits with goats. Off trail deadfall bush whacking in the steep stuff was maybe too much. Took me about 4.5 hours to cover maybe 3 miles. Had to really pick out spots and with wet logs from a drizzle we all struggled with footing. Was trying to get around some private to access a high basin and failed. Turned out the open area I saw on onx was actually cliff. Did my first solo overnight trip with the goats, which was successful, even if the route was too much.

[Linked Image]

Also took Gunnar off the injured reserve list and took him out anyway for his first overnighter. He did fine and I might be seeing signs of his pasterns strengthening.

[Linked Image]

Getting up in those basins looks so easy from here:
[Linked Image]

Also been doing some occasional dawn hikes up and out of this canyon for conditioning

[Linked Image]


"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,068
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,068
Ever heard of a boy scout pack goat merit badge? Well, sort of. 2 years ago, our church switched it's scout troop from BSA to Trail Life. They have trail badges which are equivalent to BSA merit badges. One thing different about TL is that they allow troops to develop their own trail badges. They are then approved by national and made available to all members. We're in the process of developing a pack animal badge. I've been the main instigator on it. What I've done is list a number of general requirements that apply to all pack animals. The member then chooses 1 of several options depending on what animal he's using. He can choose goats, llamas, horses/mules, or even dogs. I've mainly developed the llama option since that's what we're using but I have a little knowledge about goats so I've done some with that one. It's open for other troops to add requirements for the other animals if they choose.

One requirement is to go on an overnight pack trip while having total control over the animal. We just got back from a 3 night pack trip with each boy having his own llama to care for. it was a great trip and the boys got a lot out of it.
Llamas are kind of specialty animal and it's getting very hard to find good ones. Goats are more practical for most backpackers. They're easy to obtain and keep plus easy to train. If someone asks me about pack llamas, I generally aim them toward the goats. I would likely have goats instead of llamas except for llamas ability to carry elk quarters better.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 7,821
S
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
S
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 7,821
Keep it coming guys. I like this thread and I'd like to see the pictures from when you finally go hunting with them. Thanks.


"Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem."
Ronald Reagan
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,264
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,264
Rock Chuck, I’ve not heard of the Boy Scouts doing that but 4-h kids even have them at the Fair doing little trail courses on obstacles and stuff with a pack on


"For some unfortunates, poisoned by city sidewalks ... the horn of the hunter never winds at all" Robert Ruark, The Horn of the Hunter

Page 4 of 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 10 11

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
690 members (12308300, 10gaugemag, 007FJ, 160user, 10Glocks, 06hunter59, 70 invisible), 2,794 guests, and 1,297 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,632
Posts18,398,846
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.134s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9198 MB (Peak: 1.0952 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 16:39:32 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS