Why would the 25-45 dies be so much more than any other dies? RCBS makes the dies. 25-45 uses the same bolt and magazines as 223/5.56. Only real change is the barrel. From the ballistics I see, under 300 yards they should do the job. Beyond 300 yards then you go with 6.5 Grendel, but it does require a bolt, and new magazine followers or new magazines. Lee also makes the dies, a 3 die set costs from $31-$38. Not bad.
Some states require your bullet size to be greater than .243, some greater than .25. Some states require straight wall pistol type cartridges, thus the 450 Bushmaster and now the 350 Legend.
The legend would not make it here, even though we are straight wall cartridge country. Caliber sizes allowed for us are .357- .50cal. The .450 Bushmaster will handle anything 300yds or less, I'm still thinking 5.56 for longer ranges.
An unemployed Jester, is nobody's Fool.
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
Odd man out here, but for hunting purposes with no drama in the platform nor the killing, I'd be 300 Blackout running supersonics. Preference there is the 110 Barnes TTSX black tip. It simply works, with the emphasis on simply.
No flies on this either. Or the 950 FPS Lehigh rounds. Or the X39 with 125 ballistic tips.
LOTS of rounds work.
And don't let anyone tell you the bigger rounds do it quicker... 50 beowulf that we have does not kill deer any quicker than the right 223 bullet in the right place. I'm a bit more confident on the 50 for other things, like heavy hardcast for bear defense. But even running a flying ashtray like the barnes, that opens well on top of it, most deer are just going to run a bit. 223 or 50 or in between.
Have I ever mentioned how far a doe I shot with 50 bmg ran... with NO blood trail whatsoever and a hole through both lungs....lets just say appx 200 yards and it was easier to follow the path of the bullet into the ground through the brush than to find the doe. Seriously.
Have I said the 257 wtby sometimes fast 100 ttsx and 80 ttsx, now and then those deer go 200 yards plus. Same shot placement as others that rarely make 50.
have I said that 10mm Glock deer rarely make it out of sight...
the only real difference between a good tracker and a bad tracker, is observation. all the same data is present for both. The rest, is understanding what you're seeing.
just to add one small point, OP mentioned "fun for the family". One thing the Grendel has going for it is cheap Wolf plinking/blasting ammo.. A nice option to have that some cartridges don't have.
just to add one small point, OP mentioned "fun for the family". One thing the Grendel has going for it is cheap Wolf plinking/blasting ammo.. A nice option to have that some cartridges don't have.
just to add one small point, OP mentioned "fun for the family". One thing the Grendel has going for it is cheap Wolf plinking/blasting ammo.. A nice option to have that some cartridges don't have.
Exactly. Bulk ammo is cheap cheap.
I always see this mentioned as a big plus for the 6.5G, do y’all really shoot steel cased wolf ammo frequently? I have to imagine it shoots like crap and isn’t particularly usuable at longer ranges (am I incorrect here?)
Personally any Grendel I’m going to build or own will have a mid to premium quality SS barrel on it. I’m not shooting steel cased anything in a rifle like that.
If you want to plink with cheap bulk ammo, isn’t 5.56/223 the way to go ? (with brass cased FMJ or HP bullets)
I’m not arguing against 6.5, I just got another myself. But the cheapest thing I’ll be trying is Hornady American gunner..and will most likely be sticking with 123sst for pigs.
just to add one small point, OP mentioned "fun for the family". One thing the Grendel has going for it is cheap Wolf plinking/blasting ammo.. A nice option to have that some cartridges don't have.
Exactly. Bulk ammo is cheap cheap.
I always see this mentioned as a big plus for the 6.5G, do y’all really shoot steel cased wolf ammo frequently? I have to imagine it shoots like crap and isn’t particularly usuable at longer ranges (am I incorrect here?)
Personally any Grendel I’m going to build or own will have a mid to premium quality SS barrel on it. I’m not shooting steel cased anything in a rifle like that.
If you want to plink with cheap bulk ammo, isn’t 5.56/223 the way to go ? (with brass cased FMJ or HP bullets)
I’m not arguing against 6.5, I just got another myself. But the cheapest thing I’ll be trying is Hornady American gunner..and will most likely be sticking with 123sst for pigs.
Yep.
For cheap plinking, I'm thinking 5.56.
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 09/02/19.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
Personally any Grendel I’m going to build or own will have a mid to premium quality SS barrel on it. I’m not shooting steel cased anything in a rifle like that.
While yes, 5.56 is the answer for training/practice, what will a steel cased round do to a stainless barrel?
Personally any Grendel I’m going to build or own will have a mid to premium quality SS barrel on it. I’m not shooting steel cased anything in a rifle like that.
While yes, 5.56 is the answer for training/practice, what will a steel cased round do to a stainless barrel?
I suppose I’ve read somewhere it’s harder on a rifle than brass, though I will admit I have no firsthand knowledge of that. Please do correct me if that’s misinformation
Otherwise I just don’t have much use for blasting ammo in non reloadeable cases, but I do understand that others do.
Steelcased does nothing to the barrel. It “can be” harder in extractors, but that’s it. By harder on extractors we’re talking about crappy lacquered coated, sticky cases reducing extractor lifespans by around 20-30%. It’s a $2 part.
Some steel cased ammunition uses bi-metal bullets which can reduce barrel life by about 20-30% again, however the cost difference is huge. Even factoring in barrel wear for blasting ammo, GOOD steel cased is way better for $ per shot. Good steel cased is typified by Hornady’s steel match. Have shot hundreds of thousands of it, with no noticeable issues over normal brass cased.
I do not shoot steel cased Grendel, but only because volume practice is done with 5.56mm’s. No need to shoot 20,000 rounds of Grendel a year.
6.5 grendel. Low recoil, available ammo, accurate and plenty for deer to 300-400 yards.
And fits into a standard AR.
I bought a cheap AR15 upper from PSA in 6.5 Grendel as a bad weather, rainy day gun when I didn't want to take out one of my more expensive wood stocked rifles. To say I was impressed was an understatement. If I had bought the Grendel first, I probably wouldn't have bought a .224 Valkyrie. I reload and the Grendel seems to like about any powder appropriate for the caliber. I settled on 748 simply because I have a lot on hand. I adjusted the gas block last week for my suppressor and am really looking forward toward deer season again with it. Took two deer last year, one a nice buck and seemed to have same effect as my 7mm-08 I generally use, bang-flop. No real recoil and pleasant to shoot in an AR. There are other calibers just as good, but none any really better that will fit in an AR15 magazine. As far as building an upper, you may check out PSA when they have one of their sales, hard to build your own a lot cheaper. Not bad products for the money.
Steelcased does nothing to the barrel. It “can be” harder in extractors, but that’s it. By harder on extractors we’re talking about crappy lacquered coated, sticky cases reducing extractor lifespans by around 20-30%. It’s a $2 part.
Some steel cased ammunition uses bi-metal bullets which can reduce barrel life by about 20-30% again, however the cost difference is huge. Even factoring in barrel wear for blasting ammo, GOOD steel cased is way better for $ per shot. Good steel cased is typified by Hornady’s steel match. Have shot hundreds of thousands of it, with no noticeable issues over normal brass cased.
I do not shoot steel cased Grendel, but only because volume practice is done with 5.56mm’s. No need to shoot 20,000 rounds of Grendel a year.
Hot Damnn!
Hell...Reloading/Shooting are still my favorite things to do,besides play in the box the kids came in.................
Steelcased does nothing to the barrel. It “can be” harder in extractors, but that’s it. By harder on extractors we’re talking about crappy lacquered coated, sticky cases reducing extractor lifespans by around 20-30%. It’s a $2 part.
Some steel cased ammunition uses bi-metal bullets which can reduce barrel life by about 20-30% again, however the cost difference is huge. Even factoring in barrel wear for blasting ammo, GOOD steel cased is way better for $ per shot. Good steel cased is typified by Hornady’s steel match. Have shot hundreds of thousands of it, with no noticeable issues over normal brass cased.
I do not shoot steel cased Grendel, but only because volume practice is done with 5.56mm’s. No need to shoot 20,000 rounds of Grendel a year.
Good info, appreciate it. I won’t discount Hornady steel match for cheap ammo to practice or add to the stash
I only have certain guns where plinking/steel case is on the menu, and they’re all my 5.56 dcl stuff. My ‘hunting’ and target ARs, I’m usually only worried about accurate factory stuff and hand loads. Except for maybe one in 300 that the wife likes to bang away with. LOL
Not all steel cased is innaccurate. Hornady learned how to make that work years ago in a shortage.... just because its steel cased don't assume its FMJ type ball ammo accurate only..FWIW.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Heres the bottom line The AR platform is very useful If you are here is straight wall country the 450 is very effective, recently I picked up a 50Beowulf its legal here I may try it
If you can use x39 (my fav plinker) 6.5 or 6.8 they work very will also
I like the fact that more folks are using the platform for sporting purposes This surely makes it more "legit" and maybe more out of the BS cross hairs of antis
Hank
Thank You Lord for another day,Help my Brother along the way
When you mature,you realize hospitals and schools are businesses,and the Beatles were geniuses
Live Like A Champion Today
NRA EndowmentLife Member,My Daughter is also a Life Member
I always see this mentioned as a big plus for the 6.5G, do y’all really shoot steel cased wolf ammo frequently? I have to imagine it shoots like crap and isn’t particularly usuable at longer ranges (am I incorrect here?)
Personally any Grendel I’m going to build or own will have a mid to premium quality SS barrel on it. I’m not shooting steel cased anything in a rifle like that.
I shoot the Wolf 6.5 Grendel steel case ammo often for cheap plinking. I suppose it depends on the barrel, but mine shoots it fairly accurately; nobody's going to win any matches with it but it does a lot better than cheap 193 or 855 in any of my 5.56 rifles. That's in a good quality stainless barrel (I machined from a Green Mountain blank, so you can't buy one, sorry); if and when it wears out, I'll make or buy another one.
I have heard other people say the same ammo doesn't shoot well for them, so maybe I got lucky or maybe it's because I used a good barrel. YMMV of course, but the availability of <$6/box Grendel ammo is a real advantage for me.
300-400fps can show a difference. IF it was only 50-100 difference, and that’s what you see between a 6.5 and 6.8 in a 16” AR with the same weight bullets, then call the Grendel the winner. I’ve not safely seen it anywhere near that close. Since I’m not using it past 300, or with a longer than 16” in my hunting rigs, I’ll take the better numbers at 0-200. Better after that and using a longer barrel and higher BC bullet doesn’t concern me so much. My concerns may be the opposite of others’. ’
If you're seeing 300-400 fps difference between the 6.8 and 6.5 with similar bullet weights and barrel lengths, you're either loading one way hotter than the other, or something else is wrong. 50-100 fps is the realistic difference between the two when comparing apples to apples. Do you actually own a chronograph, or are these numbers you got off the 68 forums?
Your comments are pretty typical of the 6.8 kool-aid drinker crowd; reality is a bit different when you break away from that hardcore bias toward a particular headstamp.
can't imagine there's enuf diff between the 6.5, 6.8 or the 300 hamr to really give one an edge over the other in the field. but if you're building your own, perhaps other factors mite tip the scale. i'm shooting the hamr right now and don't plan to change anytime soon. the advantage i see, if you want to call it that, is all 556 parts. no special bolt or magazine. only downside, again.. if you want to call it that, is you won't be running over to academy to grab a box of shells. you're buying your ammo from wilson combat or loading your own. but the wc ammo is very affordable so i give the nod to the hamr.
can't imagine there's enuf diff between the 6.5, 6.8 or the 300 hamr to really give one an edge over the other in the field. but if you're building your own, perhaps other factors mite tip the scale. i'm shooting the hamr right now and don't plan to change anytime soon. the advantage i see, if you want to call it that, is all 556 parts. no special bolt or magazine. only downside, again.. if you want to call it that, is you won't be running over to academy to grab a box of shells. you're buying your ammo from wilson combat or loading your own. but the wc ammo is very affordable so i give the nod to the hamr.
Over the years I have learned you have credibility, You have killed a few Hank
Thank You Lord for another day,Help my Brother along the way
When you mature,you realize hospitals and schools are businesses,and the Beatles were geniuses
Live Like A Champion Today
NRA EndowmentLife Member,My Daughter is also a Life Member
300-400fps can show a difference. IF it was only 50-100 difference, and that’s what you see between a 6.5 and 6.8 in a 16” AR with the same weight bullets, then call the Grendel the winner. I’ve not safely seen it anywhere near that close. Since I’m not using it past 300, or with a longer than 16” in my hunting rigs, I’ll take the better numbers at 0-200. Better after that and using a longer barrel and higher BC bullet doesn’t concern me so much. My concerns may be the opposite of others’. ’
If you're seeing 300-400 fps difference between the 6.8 and 6.5 with similar bullet weights and barrel lengths, you're either loading one way hotter than the other, or something else is wrong. 50-100 fps is the realistic difference between the two when comparing apples to apples. Do you actually own a chronograph, or are these numbers you got off the 68 forums?
Your comments are pretty typical of the 6.8 kool-aid drinker crowd; reality is a bit different when you break away from that hardcore bias toward a particular headstamp.
FWIW, I have (2) chronos. I’ve seen a minimum of 2650 for 110 NAB loads in a 16” barrel, and the SSA factory stuff I have a good stash of ran just north of 2700 when chronod in my 16” 3R ARP BBL. 90s were 2950-3k, IIRC. The milspec is/was 2600, w/2500 as a min acceptable in a16” for 110-115gr. Due to bolt/case head parameters, it’s likely safer to run the 6.8 to 58k+ in ARs, vs stuff with a larger case head diameter. I’ve seen some folks indicating Grendel hand loads of 100gr bullets hitting 2400-2500 in 16” barrels, but the factory stuff and other’s hand loads I’ve actually seen chronod were 2-300 FPS less. If what I’ve seen is an anomaly, and safe Grendel stuff is actually hitting 2500-2750 from 16” barrels with anything over 90gr, then you can keep calling me a ‘koolaide drinker’. However, I see more insecurity/hype over the Grendel, anytime someone points out differences in anything under 400 yards and 20” of barrel. The differences aren’t earth shattering, but they exist. The differences take nothing away from what either cartridge was designed to do, or do well. I never said there couldn’t be custom loading, bullet selection, etc to mitigate/modify the typical, from either. They were just created to be slightly different.
From that perspective (normal AR hunting), the WC HAMR is intriguing as (possibly) the simplest current solution to good game performance at typical hunting ranges.
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