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After a few firings with full power loads do the bolts on any of your rifles need a bit more pressure to close?

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No they don't seem to I just did 40 rounds of 270 Win last night that are on their 8th loading all they have been sized is with a collet die no problem chambering them in several 270s that i have. These were Rws Factory loads and it seems to be very hard brass but do the same thing with Win. or Federal brass with no problems.

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Depends on how hot the load is, case design and brass hardness. A case with a lot of taper like the 220 Swift may need it every time especially if it is in a maximum sized chamber. A cartridge like the 280 AI could get close to ten rounds before needing it.

I do it every 4th loading for consistency and before it needs it. This is also when I anneal so it gives the cases a new lease on life.


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Originally Posted by grumpy7904
How often are you guys setting the shoulder back?



I've been using that die combo for my 7mag, 6.5CM, and 7-08 and set back shoulders only when round becomes "tight" when chambering, every 3-5 loadings for my rifles. I neck size only as long as I can.


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Originally Posted by Craig2506
Think I have to agree with bsa...I’m over thinking it. I’ll just FL size next time and then go back to the collet.

Craig

This is what I do. Anneal before FL size, for more consistent results. But I don't have to set shoulders back very often. After about 10-12 firings. The only time I seem to use the FL sizer anymore is on once-fired stuff I acquire.

I anneal every 3-4 loadings, keep pressure below 65K PSI, and will only do a full-length size on a batch if several require noticeable force to close the bolt.

I have run some cases through over 25 loadings, and have only lost a couple using this method. The annealing seems to be the key. Gotta quit buying that crappy Winchester brass.


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Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by Craig2506
Think I have to agree with bsa...I’m over thinking it. I’ll just FL size next time and then go back to the collet.

Craig


Yup, do that and leave the expander ball in the FL sizer. Just try not to bump the shoulder back more than necessary. 1/8 turn of the die is the difference between not enough and too much, so some of us prefer to measure shoulder bump to get it right.


I don’t have the tools to measure, so I just mark up the shoulder with a dry erase marker, and then adjust the die so that it just kisses the shoulder and removes some of the marker. On my RCBS dies, that’s just a slight 1/16 more turn.
Sound about right?

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Originally Posted by SDHNTR
Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by Craig2506
Think I have to agree with bsa...I’m over thinking it. I’ll just FL size next time and then go back to the collet.

Craig


Yup, do that and leave the expander ball in the FL sizer. Just try not to bump the shoulder back more than necessary. 1/8 turn of the die is the difference between not enough and too much, so some of us prefer to measure shoulder bump to get it right.


I don’t have the tools to measure, so I just mark up the shoulder with a dry erase marker, and then adjust the die so that it just kisses the shoulder and removes some of the marker. On my RCBS dies, that’s just a slight 1/16 more turn.
Sound about right?


A true 1/16 turn is about right, equivalent to .004" more shoulder bump, although it can be pretty hard to really judge 1/16 turn accurately.

If you have a digital or dial caliper and a piece of fired 40 S&W or 10mm brass though, you have the tools to measure shoulder bump. Really any piece of round tubing that fits approximately in the middle of the case shoulder works for measuring shoulder bump. Zero the caliper on fired brass from your chamber, and compare the same reading on your sized brass.

This pic is with a piece of .357 Mag brass, same idea. This piece of 6.5 Creedmoor brass has the shoulder bumped back .003".
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Yondering; 09/16/19.
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Originally Posted by Yondering


This pic is with a piece of .357 Mag brass, same idea. This piece of 6.5 Creedmoor brass has the shoulder bumped back .003".
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]



Good stuff Yondering. Thanks for the pic and great idea.


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It works. I've been doing it and recommending it with a 40 S&W case for a long time now.

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Originally Posted by JGRaider
Originally Posted by Yondering


This pic is with a piece of .357 Mag brass, same idea. This piece of 6.5 Creedmoor brass has the shoulder bumped back .003".
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]



Good stuff Yondering. Thanks for the pic and great idea.

Great idea! I love redneck engineering!

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I use a 9mm case for most of my rifle reloading.

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Originally Posted by mathman
It works. I've been doing it and recommending it with a 40 S&W case for a long time now.


Yup.
Just as a note of explanation - the 357 case was used in that example because the round had a bullet loaded, so a .40 or 10mm case is too short. An even longer case would be needed for a longer bullet though; 35 Rem, 35 Whelen, etc would work, or maybe 41 Mag. (A bud was trying to determine headspace of loaded ammo to his rifle.)

I normally use a piece I machined that attaches to the caliper jaw, a lot like the Hornady tools; that's more convenient but a round piece of fired brass works too.

Last edited by Yondering; 09/17/19.
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.32 ACP case works pretty well for .223.

I have a .25 saved back my future .204.


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Rather than fiddling around adjusting dies for shoulder bumping/partial resizing or buying expensive specialty dies, just get a set of Skip’s spacers. Set up your sizing die for FL sizing then experiment with the spacers underneath the die’s lock ring. Start with a spacer thickness that won’t allow your bolt to close then gradually go down to a thickness that allows the bolt to close with a barely noticeable resistance. You can use the spacers singularity or in combination to achieve the desired thickness. This way, your never have to re-adjust your die for FL sizing when necessary and you’ve probably saved yourself a bundle of dough.
Works for me.😊


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Originally Posted by Bobber257
Rather than fiddling around adjusting dies for shoulder bumping/partial resizing or buying expensive specialty dies, just get a set of Skip’s spacers. Set up your sizing die for FL sizing then experiment with the spacers underneath the die’s lock ring. Start with a spacer thickness that won’t allow your bolt to close then gradually go down to a thickness that allows the bolt to close with a barely noticeable resistance. You can use the spacers singularity or in combination to achieve the desired thickness. This way, your never have to re-adjust your die for FL sizing when necessary and you’ve probably saved yourself a bundle of dough.
Works for me.😊


Sounds like a whole lot of fiddling around to avoid 5 minutes of setting up the die correctly to start with. I don't know why some guys have trouble with this concept: correct shoulder bump of a few thousandths IS full length sizing.

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Originally Posted by Yondering
Originally Posted by Bobber257
Rather than fiddling around adjusting dies for shoulder bumping/partial resizing or buying expensive specialty dies, just get a set of Skip’s spacers. Set up your sizing die for FL sizing then experiment with the spacers underneath the die’s lock ring. Start with a spacer thickness that won’t allow your bolt to close then gradually go down to a thickness that allows the bolt to close with a barely noticeable resistance. You can use the spacers singularity or in combination to achieve the desired thickness. This way, your never have to re-adjust your die for FL sizing when necessary and you’ve probably saved yourself a bundle of dough.
Works for me.😊


Sounds like a whole lot of fiddling around to avoid 5 minutes of setting up the die correctly to start with. I don't know why some guys have trouble with this concept: correct shoulder bump of a few thousandths IS full length sizing.


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Actually the “fiddling around” is only when the proper shim is initially determined. After that there’s no more “fiddling” to be done. Just grab the pre-selected shim, drop it on the die and get to work.


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Why bother to use a shim at all? Just set the die up right the first time.

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For partial sizing the die IS set up right when you use the shim. For FL sizing it IS set up right when you don’t use the shim. No die adjustment necessary. Sorry if I didn’t make that clear.


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What's apparently not clear to you is that bumping the shoulders back a couple thousandths IS full length sizing. It is not partial sizing. If you want to use a shim for partial sizing that works, but it's a different topic and not what we're discussing here.

Correct shoulder bump is NOT partial sizing. Partial sizing is when part of the neck is left unsized, and the shoulders are not bumped back at all.

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