Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Crazy, Stupid, or both?

Was listenin to an ad on the radio that said there was a portable oxygen concentrator that was the size of a coke can and weighed a pound.

Thinkin that the weight would be worth it hikin at 7-10,000 feet.

Save this flatlander a day of gettin acclimated, and could cover more ground with more O2.

Could this work?

Dunno...


At 10,000 ft I usually tell people to breathe really deep and heavy so's I can hear them.


Acclimitization IS worth every hour you invest to it.

MIght be a short-term fix, but as far as acclimatization wouldn't it be counterproductive? My understanding is that your body makes more red blood cells in response to air with fewer O2 molecules per lungful. So if you add O2 it would interfere with acclimatization, right?

I think you're better off acclimating if you have an issue with altitude. If you really do "need" canister o2, I'd say staying out of altitude would be the wiser move. I seriously doubt a 1lb unit advertised on radio isn't going to get the job done.

Smokey:

It takes a couple of weeks for an increase in red blood corpuscles to be detectable and over a month to aproximate maximum acclimatization. However acclimatization occurs in a logarythmic curve. So it never really stops getting better. One problem with hyper-aclimatization is that the increased red blood cell content makes the blood prone to clotting (edema). When this occurs in the lungs or brain it can be life threatening. In the legs or arms it can be painful and debilitating.

Employing the "rest step" is the best way for a flatlander to achieve short term high performance at altitude.

KC

Fubarski:

10,000' is not high altitude for the Rockies. During the early seasons you can expect to find elk and deer at or near timberline. That's about +/-11,400' in Colorado and a little lower in Wyoming and Montana.

I don't know if an oxegen concentrator would be useful. Depends on battery time I guess. Smokepole makes a good point in that it might be counterproductive but you probably won't be there long enough for it to matter. .

Employing the "rest step" is the best way for a flatlander to achieve short term performance at altitude.

KC

ALTITUDE SICKNESS: The two most serious types of altitude sickness are HAPE (High Altitude Pulmonary Edema) and HACE (High Altitude Cerebral Edema). HAPE is fluid in the lungs and you can self-diagnose it when you feel gurgling in your lungs or pain in the chest. If your breath is condensing and your friends aren't condensing, then you may have fluid in your lungs. HACE is fluid on the brain. You can self-diagnose it when you get dizzy and stay dizzy for more than a minute or so. If one of your hunting partners goes unconscious or doesn't wake up in the morning, you need to transport him to lower elevation immediately to save his life. The only effective field remedy for HAPE and HACE requires an item called a Gamow Bag and you won't have one. So DESCEND! DESCEND! DESCEND! Get to lower elevation immediately if you want to live. Fortunately HAPE and HACE are both rare (but not unheard of) below 10,000' elevation.

The most common type and the least severe is AMS (Acute Mountain Sickness). It's often associated with dehydration. Its' symptoms are similar to those of influenza and they may include mild headache, nausea, vomiting, lassitude, loss of appetite, and periodic breathing (waking up gasping for air). Common Aspirin and Tums can help because they coincidentally contains the just the kind of ingredients that your body needs and it is a mild astringent that reduces the effects of dehydration. Diamox is the brand name of a prescription drug that works for some people. Start taking it a couple of days before you begin to ascend. But it doesn't work for everyone and there are some potentially miserable side effects. In most cases, if you rest for a couple of days, drink lots of liquids, and take Aspirin and Tums, AMS will subside and you can start enjoying yourself.

The best way to avoid altitude sickness is to ascend slowly, at the rate of 1,000' per day. But often you don't have that much time. So get in good shape now. Good shape means strong heart and lungs. Good exercises include running stairs, swimming, bicycling, or any other kind of exercise that works the heart and lungs. However sometimes even the best athletes can get altitude sickness, so don't count on that being the cure all. Get to high elevation a few days early and just lounge around for a few days before you start exerting yourself. Stay hydrated, avoid alcohol and coffee or any other kind of diuretic. Take one Aspirin and one Tums each day. Be alert to the symptoms mentioned and react appropriately if they occur.

Also try to develop a technique called Alpinisti Breathing (pressure breathing). Essentially you consciously make your lungs inhale and exhale before you feel the need to breather heavy, you generate a rhythm between your body effort and your lungs so that you have air before you need it. If you wait until you need the air then it’s too late and you are always out of breath. It’s sometimes called the Rest Step (step-breathe-pause-breathe, step-breathe-pause-breathe, repeat, etc.)

Not according to everythig I've read, and my personal experience. It starts within a few days.

Not sure what your point is but 10K is plenty of altitude for people who live near sea level to both feel the effects of less O2 per volume of air and even to get altitude sickness.

You bet. I once hosted a hunter from Louisiana. I told him to get in shape. He didn't and he came down with pulmonary edema the first night in camp. We were camped at 9,400' and he never got to hunt.

My point is Fubarski might be hunting higher than he thinks and he better get in shape.

The time it takes for pulmonary acclimatization to get started and the time it takes for marrow to grow more red blood cells are two different things.

Joe:

Good advice. Climbers refer to that technique as the rest step.

KC

Thanks for the replies.

I shoulda been more specific in my OP.

There's no problems with altitude sickness, or staying at altitude. Once I get to my spot, I'm fine, and acourse, comin down isn't a problem.

What I'm trying to do is gain a day up there.

Usually, I like to take a day hike the day before leavin on a backpack trip, to get the altitude in or out, whichever.

There's no problem with a daypack.

But hittin the trail, with a backpack loaded for a week, slows me down, and my stop is about 12 miles, climbin from 7-10,000 feet, a place I can reach in one day if I was acclimated, but just can't hit the first day out.

So, I'm wondering whether the extra O2 from the concentrator would give me the extra I need to be able to roll up to the trailhead, and hit the base camp the first day. Kinda like a turbocharger.

Would only need it when carryin that initial load, and if it could work the 1 pound wouldn't make a difference.

Also seems like it could help packin an animal out, if I ever need to.

KC...am a climber and we don't call breathing deep while climbing a "rest step". We call it: getting more oxygen for the task.

A rest step is the actual motion of slowly moving forward, pausing and giving the muscles a short period of time to regulate the lactase in the cells allowing the bones to support more of your weight conserving energy.

Breathing at altitude or sports for that matter is about having a better blood oxygen concentration. Better physical conditioning AND acclimitization are the most important. Individual physiology and capacity are secondary, but also important. Some people adapt better than others in mountain enviroments even if they are not as good of "shape".

Acclimitization "begins" in the matter of hours. Frequent trips to altitude gives your body the cues to acclimitize more quickly than most of those that get out of their vehicle at 6 or 7,000' from starting out at sea level once a year or so.

Is Acetazolamide used by climbers living at low altitudes and traveling to climb?

I'm talking about the latter, and again according to everything I've read, it doesn't take long to get started.

It CAN be used, but there is the possibility of unwanted side effects.

I wouldn't use it unless involved in an *emergency* rescue or military operation where the operator had to be transported by aircraft to a high altitude location from a low elevation.

Train and condition for altitude. Better off lightening your pack if possible and/or one's belly fat than packing oxygen.

If possible, sleep at a highest elevation feasible before the next day's travel to higher altitude.

Stay well-hydrated (without alcohol).

All good advice, but I'm tryin ta cheat, here.

Buy my way to an extra day above treeline.

Can supplemental oxygen, supplied by a 1 pound device, help me cover more ground climbin from 7-10k feet, under load?

I'm a cheap bastard, but if the $ is right, I'll probably just buy one, to see what happens next summer.

My answer is NO. You will have to pay the price sooner or later, IMHO its better to pay it early and get better every day, rather than some O2 thing, and you still will have to catch up so to speak at some point.

Just an opinion and certainly not worth more than 1 cent max.