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There is a bout a 7% increase in case capacity between the factory and the AI versions, with a corresponding increase of about 175 FPS in a 20" and at the < 42,000 PSI. Frankly this ain't all that much to get excited about. If, and I say, if most factory ammo is lowded in 35,000 PSI range, loading to full SAMMI spec, for the parent cartridge, would do just as much. (There is no SAMMI spec for the AI rounds, which have not become factory rounds.

The puts the .30/30 AI in the middle of the AI cartridges for performance upgrade. The 25/35 and 30/40 Krag are near the top of the heep and the .270/280 near the very bottom.

The Steven 325 might, maybe be one of the weaker bolt guns. Donno. But I believe it is plenty adequate for the .30/30 hand loaded to 42,000 PSI, which is the SAMMI spec. I am guessing I will get more bank for the buck from this action because i can shoot pointed bullets than from the AI conversion. If the AI conversion really does boost velocity 7% and I shoot pointed bullets, then trajectory and down range energy should jump accordingly.

The 325 is a fun gun. It will cost me very little to run a reamer into her to complete these test. The real fun for me is to tinker with the process and report the findings to your guys.

Right here right now, I will speculate this rifle will delivery about 2575 fps with 150 grain pointed bullets in AI format. Not shabby , but hardly remarkable.

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CDNN has the B-Square side-mount on sale for $10, their part number BSQ14600.

www.cdnnsports.com

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The first article I am aware of on the .30-30 Ackley Improved is in the Robert Hutton series from Guns & Ammo. Hutton was searching for the ideal 300 Meter cartridge for International shooting. The series of tests involved just about every factory cartridge and wildcat that could have been thought of at the time.
PO made up the rifle, an FN Mauser with 26” barrel. He also chambered a 20” Model 94 for the cartridge.
I believe Dr. Henry Stebbins beat Hutton to print by mentioning the Ackley .30-30 Improved in his book on Rifles.

The article by Hutton: A New Look At The .30-30 was in the May 1961 issue of Guns & Ammo.
The goal of a 180 grain bullet at 3,000 fps was not achieved.
In the bolt action rifle it was found that accuracy improved as velocity increased right up to the point of primer popping.
Hutton commented that he shot his smallest ever .30 caliber groups with the .30-30AI. Also the smallest .30 caliber group he had ever seen. The smallest being 5 shots in ¾” using 35.0 grains of IMR 4198 and the Sierra 168 grain International bullet.
Hutton discounted any velocity increase with the Improved cartridge in the lever action rifle and said the advantage of the cartridge in the lever action was improved case life and improved accuracy.

There was at least one Improved .30-30 prior to the Ackley version – this one with a 35 degree shoulder. I have one in my collection and have posted the picture on the Beartooth forum in the past. I have searched quite a bit and have not found an earlier article on Improving the .30-30.


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Originally Posted by william_iorg
The first article I am aware of on the .30-30 Ackley Improved is in the Robert Hutton series from Guns & Ammo. Hutton was searching for the ideal 300 Meter cartridge for International shooting. The series of tests involved just about every factory cartridge and wildcat that could have been thought of at the time.
PO made up the rifle, an FN Mauser with 26” barrel. He also chambered a 20” Model 94 for the cartridge.
I believe Dr. Henry Stebbins beat Hutton to print by mentioning the Ackley .30-30 Improved in his book on Rifles.

The article by Hutton: A New Look At The .30-30 was in the May 1961 issue of Guns & Ammo.
The goal of a 180 grain bullet at 3,000 fps was not achieved.
In the bolt action rifle it was found that accuracy improved as velocity increased right up to the point of primer popping.
Hutton commented that he shot his smallest ever .30 caliber groups with the .30-30AI. Also the smallest .30 caliber group he had ever seen. The smallest being 5 shots in ¾” using 35.0 grains of IMR 4198 and the Sierra 168 grain International bullet.
Hutton discounted any velocity increase with the Improved cartridge in the lever action rifle and said the advantage of the cartridge in the lever action was improved case life and improved accuracy.

There was at least one Improved .30-30 prior to the Ackley version – this one with a 35 degree shoulder. I have one in my collection and have posted the picture on the Beartooth forum in the past. I have searched quite a bit and have not found an earlier article on Improving the .30-30.


The Beartooth Bullets site seems to have disappeared, any idea where it went?

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Main page


http://www.beartoothbullets.com

Forum

https://www.shootersforum.com

Go to the last post in this thread for the picture of the two Improved .30-30's. The early one is 22 degrees.


https://www.shootersforum.com/gunsmithing/57521-chamber-reaming.html


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Tech notes appears to be unavailable.

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A test I did in 2010:

[Linked Image]

Savage 219L-D single shot break action 30-30
1 in 12" twist
26" long.
7 pound rifle

220 gr HNDY round nose moly W748 2.92" 26" barrel, 30-30
Quickload prediction:
33 gr 51 kpsi 2176 fps
34 gr 56 kpsi 2232 fps
35 gr 62 kpsi 2287 fps
36 gr 68 kpsi 2340 fps
37 gr 75 kpsi 2394 fps
38 gr 83 kpsi 2446 fps brass and primer still look good
39 gr 92 kpsi 2498 fps primer very cratered, case full of powder, ball powder compresses a hair below 2.92"


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Now this is an interesting test. You’re pressure is up in .300 Winchester Magnum territory.
Was this new brass, once fired or used brass?
I would like to have measured the PRE on these cases. .4221” or .4222”? I don’t know if the 219 Savage has an oval cut chamber as the lever action rifles do. The Winchester and Marlin rifles have the rear of the chamber cur oval to facilitate chambering.
Would make for an interesting comparison of the Quick Load estimate and what you might see at the pressure ring.

I believe, based on the estimates I would have stopped at a 35.5 grain charge.
Have you looked at the locking lugs on your rifle. My father had a Savage shotgun similar to your 219. Dad shot this one a lot with various insert barrels. The .45 ACP and .222 Remington being his favorites. Some of his loads left a mark on the locking lugs and he took it to heart – backing off on his experimenting.

Your experiment says a lot for the extractor on the Savage 219.
We have done nothing similar to this with the standard .30-30.
Dad modified a Lyman 311284, 210 grain bullet mold to round nose. This bullet now weighs 215 grains with gas check and lubed. I load it light and 5.8 grains of V.V. N310 will give us 963 fps from the 26” Buffalo Bill Model 94.

The 220 grain Sierra HPBT Match bullet ahead of 26.0 grains of Hodgdon Varget gives us excellent accuracy at 1,829 fps – 1 ¾” at 100 yards if the light is on our back using the Lyman receiver sight. 2” to 2 ½” if the light is not so good. The target is a 3” black rectangle on off white paper with a half round cut in the bottom of the rectangle. Raise the bead up into the half round.

The 220 grain Hornady JRN bullet ahead of 33.0 grain of Hodgdon Varget gives us 2,084 fps with similar accuracy.
Funny how the round nose bullet perfoms better at higher pressure in this Model 94.

Perhaps of interest, the Peters 180 grain factory .30-30 was advertised at 2,120 fps from the 26” in 1940.

You are now in the company of “Three Fingered Phil” Sharpe – “That Old Thutty-Thutty”, American Rifleman, March 1952. A 31” Hi Wall Phil and his friend loaded to above an estimated 60,000 CUP looking for a ½” group from a .30 caliber rifle. They didn’t get their ½” group but they had no brass problems and no sticky extraction.


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Back in 1999 my father [chief engineer of gun and vehicle design at PACAR 1948-1986] was still alive. He and a mechanical engineering professor helped show me how to calculate the strength of my 45/70 handi rifle.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.guns/BlTMnBlXF44
If you hear guys at a gun show talking about the strength of an action, they will say, "It was designed for....", but that belies that a Stevens 410 break action shotgun calculates per me as much stronger than a Sav 110, Win 70, Rem 700, or Mauser 98.

So when I saw the similar to handi rifle, Sav 219L-D, I could see how strong it was. I did not realize what a piece of junk it is. Frank De Haas hated it, and I did too and soon as I took it apart and tried to put the bent sheet metal back together. My opinions on the Sav 219 is the old ones are good. The last ones, the 129L-D are terrible.... but strong.


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William_Iorg,

Was this with the regular or the AI version? I assume AI? Interesting you chose the 220 grain RN bullets. If like other RN they are probably undersized ahead of the channelure. This might help to reduce pressure, but not to the level you are documenting. Whether the 219 is a thing of beauty or not, it must be hell-for-strong, as must the brass.

I am fresh out of 170 gain RN but have a supply of HOR 180 SP bullets which I will try as soon as I get the 325 rifle up and running as an AI.

I hit a snag today when I notecd the barrel locking nut is cracked through. Had to sear for another. Once this is sorted, will rechamber for the AI version and begin recording the results.

Thanks for the info.

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My first 30-30 was a model 340C Savage. It had a 18 1/2 inch barrel and shot really well though it had a oversize chamber and cases stuck with all but the most mild loads. Using pointed bullets it was necessary to trim the cases so that the ogive of the bullet wasn't inside the case mouth. I shot it with 150 gr. bullets on top of 29.0 grains of 3031 and took several deer with it. Presently my Contender Carbine in 30-30 AI is a favorite, case life, accuracy and velocity are all just right. Ready to hunt with this year.


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I got a couple 340 Sav rifles in 30-30, one for $75 in 2005 and one for $119 in 2016.

I got in contact with Leroy Weisner. They seem like cheap guns to me, but that old guy is into them. He is smart. I could not figure out how to get the barrel off without the special nut wrench. He said to put pin gauges in a crescent wrench.

https://www.leeroysramblings.com/Gun%20Articles/stevens_325_savage_340_bolt_act.html


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I am opening up a new thread bases on some testing I have done with the 30/30 AI with LeverEvolution components. It will be titled: 30/30AI_Finding out for myself. Opinion appreciated there.

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Surprised no talk of 375 Win? I've had two Marlin rifles chambered in this, one factory, one JES rebore, and my reloads were pushing a 200gr .375 JFN slug at 2400 fps, zero pressure signs, 220gr bullets were not much slower. Talk about a deer thumper. Plus you just use starline 38/55 brass, the short stuff. This thing was a HAMMER and easy to load for with factory brass and a straight wall cartridge that loaded like a pistol round. JES does a lot of these, it's just a 30-30 case blown out straight (as I remember). But it's also an entirely different power level from a 30-30. Might be too much.

Also worth noting that my boring 336A with it's 24" barrel gives 2390 fps with most factory 150gr loads...It's way faster than a 20", though goofy looking.

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I put this rifle up for sale on Gunbroker. If anybody would like it, will sell as a package, rifle, reloading dies, a few pieces of brass. Asking $400

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Didn't see it mentioned, so I'll add it to the thread.

Most of the published figures I've seen for the increase in case volume are 5 percent. Using Mule Deer's 50-percent rule, that should yield ~2.5 percent increase in velocity without increasing pressure. Or a little more than 60 fps over a 2500 fps non-AI velocity. Saw on another forum where someone ran Quickload on the two cases and came up with 60 fps increase with a 150-grain bullet.

So if you're serious about 150-200 fps, or even 200-300 fps that some claim, it can only be accomplished with significantly greater pressures. How much greater, you can start to guess at and maybe start to test with Quickload and a strain gauge system. Personally, I wouldn't do that to a pre-G2 Contender or a Marlin.

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Good reason or not, I enjoyed a 30/30AI after reaming a Handi Rifle’s chamber. I cheaped out initially by using Lee standard 308 Win FL die as a neck sizer. Figured if the rifle was interesting enough I would buy an actual 30/30AI die set later. The rifle was easily under MOA capable grouper before reaming to AI, and if anything at least as accurate after if not more.
Final thoughts: Increased velocity possible because one can or may load to higher pressures. The benefit of the AI barrel chamber is ease of extraction beyond what one gets with extraction with a standard case when higher pressures and velocities are loaded up to. This is due to the minimal taper of the AI case. It doesn’t ’wedge’ itself tightly in the chamber like the tapered factory case does.
Now, the loads I used with a good bit of 3031 under 150 BT bullets in the AI case and still gave easy extraction had to be more stress on the Handi rifle’s action. I stopped Loading hotter because it seemed logical that I was approaching 308 Winchester speeds in a case (30/30) that had less margin of safety. I even started trying 375 Winchester brass but I was as mentioned, encroaching on 308 territory, a case designed for higher pressures.
SO, it was fun to play with a 30/30AI and if you want to go ahead and make metal chips. But if you want a faster 30 caliber, they are easily obtained buy just buying another rifle in 308 or whatever floats your boat.
I still like the 30/30 Win, and even have a couple of super strong single shots in a Ruger No.1A and a Browning 1885 high wall (28” octagon barrel).
I’ve thought about reaming them to Ackley Improved but I didn’t think about it too long.

Last edited by Alaninga; 10/17/21.
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I've not looked at it with the 30-30 but to me, the biggest benefit to the AI case in the rounds I shoot it in is less trimming. If it was a round I wasn't going to shoot much it would be less of a "plus" to me. I hate trimming brass.

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Originally Posted by wheelerdan
I am opening up a new thread bases on some testing I have done with the 30/30 AI with LeverEvolution components. It will be titled: 30/30AI_Finding out for myself. Opinion appreciated there.


I looked for the thread and did not find it. But I did see where you'd listed the rifle on GunBroker. What were the results? I take it they weren't all that great.


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I would be more tempted in .30 to shoot the 307 Win. Brass is available, reloading is the only option you have. 200 fps+ over the 30-30 and 150 fps faster than the AI wildcat. I would be more tempted to just rebarrel to a 7-30 Waters. It is a dandy tube feed lever action chamber. Shoots flatter and has less recoil than the 30-30. That’s my 2 cents.

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