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consistancy is accuracy #14085045 08/28/19
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ihookem Offline OP
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I shot some bad groups today but got back to the bullseye with my TC Hawken. I think what went wrong is I keep my Hawken in the basement and it is cool and damp enough that when I go to shoot it I notice some moisture on the barrel. I think the moisture , also inside the barrel is gunking up my barrel and making the dirt stick to the inside. I noticed after 7 shots I could hardly get the ball down it. . It gunk's up about 6-12" from the muzzle . I also noticed I am getting low shots and concluded it is cause the nipple hole is getting dirty enough to make the hole smaller I figure it is not getting good spark and therefore less velocity. Cleaning the nipple hole seemed to get me back on bullseye. Anyone else have weird things happen that mess up accuracy?


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
300 BP

Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14085191 08/28/19
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Pappy348 Offline
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You don't say what powder you're using, but with black, I don't expect to get more than a few shots off before having to wipe the barrel. I use Ballistol with BP and 777, either diluted or straight. I pick the nipple every time before capping. Consistent pressure on the bullet also matters, I think, but I don't bounce the ramrod like some, just push on it firmly.

Wiping the barrel out with dry patches, then popping a few caps should get rid of oil or moisture.

Find what works with your setup then stick with it.


What fresh Hell is this?
Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14085420 08/29/19
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ihookem Offline OP
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I was using Old Eyensford Black powder. I dry patch it almost every shot too. Sometimes I spit patch it but I dont see a difference . I started realizing you seem to have to send a pick down the nipple every times cause all the sudden it is half closed up. I did get it back on the bullseye at the end. Just have to be consistent. I also push the ramrod down till I am 2" from being packed and then i give it a good final push instead of punning it down like some do.


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14085543 08/29/19
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dragonfly Offline
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If it were me, I'd find another place to store the rifle then the basement. Most basements are damp. You say you've got gunk in the bore. Most likely you've got rust as well. Just saying.

Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14085544 08/29/19
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Pappy348 Offline
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Tuesday I dialed in my Renegade .54 for my son's upcoming CO elk hunt using 777. I could go all day with that by just dry-patching it and keeping the flash channel picked.

I was a little sour on 777 because I had some go bad in an unopened jug, but it does work well in sidelocks. About 15 years ago, he killed two very nice bucks in VA in a week using 777 and PBs in another Renegade, a .50.


What fresh Hell is this?
Alpha

Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14085816 08/29/19
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DigitalDan Offline
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If a fella wants a caplock to perform he will stick with BP and do the things that have worked for centuries. BP subs are not your friend for many reasons.

Proper lube
Damp or dry patch as required
Pick the nipple
Clean with water based solutions, soap and water works
Dry the bore and oil before storage, dry patch before shooting


If storage in the basement is necessary, use a safe or cabinet with closed doors with a hot rod.


I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14085846 08/29/19
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gnoahhh Offline
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Also, is this with conicals or patched round balls? My wheelhouse is centered around PRB's and spit patch which effectively cleans the bore with each loading. I've gone all day countless times in offhand matches wherein I never touched a cleaning patch to a bore, and experienced zero deterioration in accuracy or ease of loading. Conicals won't do that unless they're a super tight fit, and who wants to have to pound his bullet down the bore? The expedient to that adopted in the mid-19th century was to use hollow base conicals of a diameter sufficiently small to be loaded into highly fouled barrels, and then depending on the powder explosion to swell the bullet skirt to fill the rifling. My advice: target shoot/plink with PRB's and save the solid conicals for hunting.

What size powder charge do you use? The more powder you burn, the more fouling you get. A wise man told me once that the ball only needs to make it to the paper and then put a hole in it. For a day of plinking/competition I never shoot more than 40 grains in a .45 and 50 in a .50. Save the full snort loads for hunting, if you feel you must. That protocol also undoubtedly contributes to my experiences described above.

Another factor is humidity. Shooting on a really humid day tends to keep the fouling soft and less of a problem. Granulation of powder contributes to a degree also- the finer the granulation the less fouling.

As for picking nipples. I don't. I don't even know where my pick is right now. If you're using a hot cap and your powder is good quality and small granulation (I use 3f for everything anymore) your spark channel/path should stay clear for a day's worth of shooting without having to mess with it. If not, somethings wrong with either the design or the execution of that flash channel.

Lastly, what shape is the bore in? TC's aren't known for their beautiful bores. (Run a borescope into a couple sometime, and then compare to a higher grade gun.) If the bore is full of chatter marks it'll induce fouling buildup more quickly.

...And get that thing out of that damp basement!! (If moisture from humidity in the clean barrel remains a problem, simply swamp it out with alcohol before starting to shoot.)

Last edited by gnoahhh; 08/29/19.

"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14085900 08/29/19
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Sharpsman Offline
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Consistancy is accuracy!

Not necessarily so....because one can consistently do things wrong!!

If you're going to 'consistently' leave the rifle in the basement....just go ahead and leave it outside in the rain! Maybe the charcoal in the bore will magically disappear!


"There ain't no freedom....without gunpowder!"
Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14086042 08/29/19
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bigblock455 Offline
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yep very wrong way to store your muzzy and very poor prep before loading it. If its damp, you know the bore has wetness and if its dirt in there... why isn't it being cleaned out prior to loading?

Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14087142 08/29/19
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ihookem Offline OP
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I decided to keep it upstairs. for now on. Keeping it in the basement became a problem for about 2 months . When it was cool outside it didn't matter , but the last two or three times out I figured it must be moisture, or at least could deb moisture and still not so sure but can't think of anything else. If it is cooler outside than the basement it does not matter. As for shooting it, I put a patch down it before I shoot. It is quite clean. As for gnoahhh, I only shoot round balls cause I can't get much accuracy from 2 conicals I tried. I shoot 50, 55 and 60 gr. of Old Eyesnford but have backed down to 55 the last time I was out cause I see no difference I have also shot 40 gr. with no problems at all. I guess I could try to get a bore scope and would not be surprised if the barrel was not so good. I bought it used and the gun store guy said they are all checked with a bore scope before it goes up for sale. I found that was not true cause I found a fair amount of rust before I cleaned it but nothing was black. The nipple was very hard to get loose so , yes, the barrel could very well be compromised. My next purchase will be a Green Mountain barrel that is a 1/66" or 1/70" twist. This will eliminate any chance of a bad barrel and may or may not improve accuracy but surely wont hurt . They are about $260 bucks or so. As for Sharpsman, The barrel does not stay moist in the basement it only gets damp for a while when I take it from my basement that is 60 degrees to hot and humid 80 to 90 degrees. It is only moist for about 20 minutes till the barrel acclimates to the heat and humidity like a cold drink on a humid day. I plan on using roundball for deer hunting and see no problem . Where I hunt it is so thick , you will not see a deer more than 40 yds away anyway but will use 60 gr for hunting.

Last edited by ihookem; 08/29/19.

But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
Bravo

Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: gnoahhh] #14087236 08/29/19
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Pappy348 Offline
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My "spit" is the same 1-4 Ballistol-water mix I clean BP with, although a light application of straight Ballistol works well too. I gave up on hot water cleaning years ago while futzing with a .54 flinter.

Going tomorrow, if I can get an appointment, to buy some Old Eynsford for the new musket and caps. Seems many prefer FFF for target shooting even with the .58, so I'll get some to try. Gonna buy some FF too for my hunting rifles.


What fresh Hell is this?
Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14089147 08/30/19
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gnoahhh Offline
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I even use FFFg in my .72 smoothbore Brown Bess on those rare occasions I actually shoot it anymore.

It's nice to have a horn full of 3f for all usages- it works swell for priming pans as well as main charges. Saves on messing with a separate priming horn filled with 4f.


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14089236 08/30/19
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kaywoodie Offline
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Yup! FFFG in all my guns. Was just contemplating 10 more pounds from Powder Inc.


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Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14091172 08/31/19
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Terryk Offline
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I use a damp patch between every round. It just makes the residue soft, and hard scale never really builds up. I can shoot 30 rounds and #30 feels like #2. Same resistance. Again damp patch, not wet and dripping. That might block ignition. If I feel the bore is too wet, then I dry patch. I guess there is a price tp pay, if I get the bore too damp I'll get a misfire.
I also do a pretty good flush before I leave the range to get 90% of the carbon out. I clean the rest at home with simple green cut with water. If it will sit, the I finish with balistrol.
Maybe I should add I only use blackpowder and flintlocks.

Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14091642 08/31/19
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ihookem Offline OP
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I am surprised by so many using 3F . I guess I should try some too huh? I could likely go down to 40 gr. with a 50 cal. roundball for practice huh? For hunting loads , I imagine 60 gr. is plenty .


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14091828 08/31/19
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gnoahhh Offline
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Sounds like a plan. In truth my favorite ML combo for deer back in the 80's-90's was an old Ithaca Hawken .50 cap lock, slow twist, which could be counted on for cloverleaf groups with PRB's at 50 yards. Practice/plinking/match shooting charge: 50 grains Goex FFFg, .015" pillow ticking/spit lube, soft lead .490 ball. Hunting load: the same, but with bear grease patch lube. A couple dozen Maryland deer dropped from that 50 grain charge, even a couple long-ish shots. I called it my "50/50" rifle. Nowadays my go-to is a .45 Ohio-style rifle, PRB, and 60 grains 3f- same results (a bunch of very dead deer).


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14092339 09/01/19
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kaywoodie Offline
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Most would be surprised how little powder they can get away with when hunting and still make an ethical and efficient kill.

Btw, inherited 6 lbs Goex FFFG, 5 lbs Graf FFFG, and 2 lbs Goex Ctg. yesterday! A nice windfall !!!!


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Jagdverein der lustigen Hüte

Hunting with wore out guns since before it was trendy!
Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14093066 09/01/19
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gnoahhh Offline
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Enough for a weekend, kaywoodie? smile


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: gnoahhh] #14093268 09/01/19
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kaywoodie Offline
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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Enough for a weekend, kaywoodie? smile


Back in the day!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣


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Jagdverein der lustigen Hüte

Hunting with wore out guns since before it was trendy!
Re: consistancy is accuracy [Re: ihookem] #14119025 09/11/19
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I have good luck with RS and this simple tip -

I run a damp not soaked patch of TC bore cleaner followed by a dry patch every other shot at the range.

I give it a proper scrub and a light layer of TC bore butter when I'm done (I dry.patch the bore butter out before I shoot again). That every other approach keeps my rifle shooting accurately pretty much indefinitely.

And I wouldn't store a gun anywhere damp on principle alone. Bad karma....

Good shooting!


Work is what you do to finance your real life.....
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