Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Blackhawk spring kit

I have a new Bisley 44 mag with 3 3/4 barrel being returned from repair shortly for a crooked front sight.
The trigger was heavier than I prefer, so I was thinking about Wolf springs.
The factory spec is 23 pounds main spring, and 60 ounce hammer spring. Wolf sells various weights, but I think a 19 pound main spring and a 30 ounce hammer spring is most popular. I was thinking of the 19 and 40 ounce hammer, because the 30 ounce combo gives under 3 pounds according to a sampling on youtube.
I was hoping for around 3 pounds.
So what spring weight do you guys use and recommend?

I usually bend the factory trigger return spring to get a lighter pull, but leave the mainspring stock.

Here's a tutorial with some good visual on what the trigger return should (generally) look like, when you're done.

http://cylindersmith.com/triggerspring.html

The 'creep' in Ruger triggers is caused by a deep full-cock notch on the hammer. I correct that myself but freely admit I screwed one up before I got the feel for it. I think most people would be better off having it done by a revolver smith with experience on New Model Rugers. You can also get a hammer/trigger/spring kit from Power Custom that accomplishes the same thing w/o sending the gun off.

https://www.brownells.com/handgun-p...r-new-vaquero-trigger-kit-prod25444.aspx

As it turns out I went for a Sunday ride with the wife to a winery, by a big gunshop. Anyway I bought a new Bisley and it has a ton of creep. I hear the lighter springs make this perception worse, so it might be off to be honed down. I'll take it apart, clean it up, and probably mess with the hammer spring.

I like the 30 oz coupled with heavier, not lighter mainspring. In my experience a lighter mainspring leaves you with a mushy feeling trigger pull, where the heavier creates a snappier more crips feel as the hammer is falling harder/faster.

I don't mind the cost of having a gunsmith do the work .. not at all. I do object to the delay. Once I've paid for a new gun I don't want to wait 3-12 months while it sits in a gunsmith's "in box" awaiting attention.

I, too, "f-ed" my first one up and had to have a gunsmith repair my mess. I was trying to free-hand it. Since then I bought the alignment pins from Brownells so I can assemble the trigger/hammer on the side of the gun and view what changes are needed and how I am progressing. Moreover, I've kept as small stash of replacement triggers and hammers on hand .. 'cause eventually I'll probably foul one up again.

The 30 ounce return springs are good. I've used 17, 18, and 19 pound hammer springs with complete satisfaction. Wolff, Wilson, doesn't really matter, they all work well and improve the gun's handling quite a bit. Generally the aftermarket springs are longer than the Ruger factory spring. I tend to cut them to factory length which reduces them even further (Hooks law). I've done easily 3 dozen Ruger new model single actions w/o any misfires. While I'm in there, I polish the sear surface on the trigger to smooth it up but leave the shape / angles alone. I work over the sear notch on the hammer. To do this you really need either the Brownell's alighnment pins or Power Custom's jig.

I think my next adventure is to move on to double action .. maybe a GP100 ..

Tom

I bend the trigger springs to lighten but use over power Wolff hammer springs of 26# for dependable accuracy. Do not reduce the hammer spring. I get down to 19 oz and average 1-1/2# pulls on Rugers, BFR's.
The transfer bar can be too short for this and if your finger kicks to drop the bar you can get a hang fire or no fire. I make my own transfer bars to cover the pin.
I messed up once by heating a spot to fix fit and it broke. The whole bar must be hardened and tempered again. My SBH has shot with my bar for near 98,000 rounds now.
Pull the hammer to full cock and see how much the bar covers the pin. It should be near the top.

Making a bar by hand is not easy but I contacted Brownell's long ago and they might sell one to fit. These bars vary with each gun too. Be prepared of cost scare. Hardening and tempering is a must. Done right after a failure will teach you, like heating a spring to bend, it WILL break.
What is not understood is a weak hammer spring messes with ignition and accuracy goes south. A primer needs a certain impact. Shooting IHMSA I stopped hitting steel to find the hammer spring took a set. I bought Ruger springs by the dozen. The old spring was 1/2" shorter. I went to Wolff over power and still need a change after time.

Glad I asked. I guess there is no 100% right answer, but I read many times that it is best to leave the hammer spring alone.
I also read that just bending the trigger spring does wonders like the link Sarge provided. Since I have creep, it looks like the hammer spring modification cures some of that.
So when I get time I am going to try the trigger spring modification. I ordered three 40 ounce trigger springs from Wolf this morning. I thought that was better than the 30 ounce option, because 30s seemed to give trigger pulls way below 3 pounds. I figure if the 40 is too heavy I can try bending the tail end to lighten.

I can generally get New Models down to 3.5 pounds with little-no creep and no 'push-off'. I leave them right there and a lot of shooting burnishes the contact surfaces for a stable 3 pound, entirely safe and shootable trigger. I don't want or need anything lighter than that.

I love light triggers. Yesterday I shot my SBH to center the Ultra Dot for deer. I got 1" groups at 50 and last was in the bull. I put up a line of black walnuts on the rail. Dot is larger so I had to pan off and move back but I took all off with one shot each. Now I need to tape a walnut to a deer.
No creep and a clean break is good if a little more. Creepy and rough pulls are not good.

Wolf took over a week to ship the springs, so I just tried things out today. With a 41 Magnum Bisley from the 80's, I was getting 4.5 pounds on my Lyman digital trigger scale.
On the factory hammer spring I did the bends according to the "cylindersmith" link provided by Sarge. That brought the pull down to 3.5 pounds.
I then popped in the 40 ounce Wolf spring with no bends. It brought the pull down to 3 pounds 4 ounces, but it was really consistent compared to the bent factory spring. The bent spring varied by a couple ounces, and the wolf was very consistent.

On a separate Bisley in 44 special, the factory weight was 4 pounds 4 ounces, but with a bunch of creep. I did the factory bend trick, and since I gave the tail a fiercer bend it came down to 2.5 pounds. Even with the kink bend in the trigger side, the creep remained the same. At 2.5 pounds the creep is not as apparent if you take up the pressure quick. It is still as creepy if you purposely pull slowly. I did not try the Wolf springs in it yet. I bought 3 springs so I might spil one in to see if there is any difference in creep.

I am waiting on UPS to deliver my new 44 Magnum with 3 3/4 inch barrel. It went from the dealer, back to Ruger for a crooked front sight. I'll measure before and after Wolf spring on that one too when I get time. I imagine I'll put a small bend in the tail to get it a smidge below 3 pounds if it is like the Wold spring I installed in the 41 mag. I have to cut some grass while it is still light out, so maybe tomorrow.

To get rid of creep means you must remove some metal from the hammer, springs do not do it. A Ruger hammer can be filed or stoned. After you will have a sharp edge so just remove that edge with a swipe or two with a smooth stone, I like ceramic for it and to polish sear surfaces. Be careful to not change angles. I don't touch the triggers.

Good data Terry- thanks for going to the trouble.

I guess the first question is what is a 3-3/4" barrel on a ,44 mag good for? Flame, fire and no better then a .44 special +P. Recoil will increase to .500 levels.
I had a funny thing happen when shooting my BFR .475. 7-1/2". At 50 last week I had shots touching and adjusted to center. I found they were Lee 400 gr bullets. NOT mine. I found mine and shot this morning today the first shots touching and 2 clicks down got center. Many large calibers need 5-1/2" to 6" at least but I want at least 7-12". A real short barrel is a one shot at a bear since the gun will be 90 degrees up so you will never get another while the bear has your head in teeth.

I guess that velocity depends on the load. If you google short barrel 44 mag loads, probably 100 FPS compared to a 5 1/2 barrel. Seems like plenty of loads to get a 250 grain slug to 1250 fps, and for my area that will flop anything. Bears over 300 are pretty rare, and deer over 150 just as sparse.
I also carry a SW 329 PD lightweight pistol and it has a 2.5 inch barrel, same as the Ruger Redhawk Alaskan.

I saw a video on the same 3 3/4 Blackhawk where the Buffalo Bore 340 grain bullet (340 not 240) was going an average of 1231 FPS on the guys chronograph. 1140 FPE is enough to make it through the slats of a PA whitetail. A tad better than a 44 special. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xumQoyyIiLM

According to the "cylindarsmith" link, the springs can be bent two ways. Far end away from the trigger, adjusts weight, and a Z bend of the trigger side reduces creep. This is true in my experience, the Z bend reduces some creep. I also think the creep is reduced bu the spring diameter or friction. It seems the Wolf springs have less creep with or without the Z bend. I do think my 44 special Bisley flat top needs a stone, but that is on the back burner for now.
Pics below are from the cylindarsmith PDF.

That bend really does wonders and I also bend the legs that go around the pins.

Not so much the loss of power. 3 things happen though, first spin of the bullet is reduced, short guns are harder to aim and recoil goes way up.
I think spin is the most important for stability so ranges are shortened. 1/2 gr of powder can change things from a tiny group to center of elephant. I still think as barrels get short, twist should speed up. The DE has 1 in 18" and the BFR .44 has 1 in 16". Ruger is 1 in 20".
My old IHMSA SBH has a 10-1/2" barrel and I use my 330 gr bullet that needs 1316 FPS. I tried Unique to around 1100 FPS to get about 2' patterns. You can't burn a full load of 296/H110 in a short barrel.

Sorry I am not catching some of your points. Spin is due to twist, not barrel length. I don't think length has anything to do with stability given appropriate bullet hardness and rifling depth. In fact a slower bullet from a shorter barrel should need less twist. For example. a 1/60 twist is dandy in a 62 caliber flintlock with a 325 grain ball. In a typical flintlock barrel of 30-40 inches or so, the bullet does not make one complete spin. I think most would go to a 1/72 twist at 62 caliber, than 1/48. Anyway weight and hardness of the bullet are integral in the stability equation. Anyway for a 240 grain slug a 1/20 is dandy in any length.

Shorter guns may be easier to hold due to balance, so saying longer barrels are easy to hold is subjective. In some cases like match 22 rifles, shorter barrels reduce dwell time reducing the need for follow though. That is why they make sight extensions and keep barrel short. A person could also claim the weight of a BRF in any length is harder to hold, but again that is subjective. I know my wife can't hold a heavy pistol, but does better with lighter models.

Recoil is hard to define, but as the barrel gets shorter (with the same load) the bullet energy goes down. I think you stated the loss of power and said the level was 44 special-ish. So recoil should also be reduced proportionally. Of course shorter barrels usually mean less mass, so that is part of the real perception. Moment arm leverage is more for a longer barrel, so that causes more flip, but more mass helps dampen the flip. Lighter pistols kick more due to mass, and grip design has a lot to do with perceived recoil. With my paws, I feel less recoil in a Bisley than a plow handle. That is why I bought the 3 3/4 SBH, it came is a Bisley grip. I would have liked the 4.5/8 barrel better, that is why I just bought the 44 special 4 5/8 in a Bisley.

Spin depends on velocity so when you lose 100 fps spin is reduced. With my bullet if I lose 100 FPS I also lose 3600 RPMS. If I lose 200 FPS the loss is 7776 RPMS. Short barrels just do not burn all the powder.
You bring in a RB with a very short bearing surface but if you shoot Maxi Balls, 1 in 48 will handle them along with a RB. Now an inline for bullets in a sabot will go to 1 in 28" or so. The heavier and longer the bullet being shot from AR's are getting 1 in 7 to 1 in 8" rates.
Look at the 45-70 with most for hunting having 1 in 20 but for heavy BPCR bullets they will be 1 in 18, The BFR revolver has 1 in 14". Even with a 10" barrel it is extremely hard to find a powder that works. In fact only one powder does work, SR 4759. Out of production so I stocked up.