Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers Favorite 45-70 bullet for deer/Black Bear

Just acquired a marlin 1895, new to the big bores. I’m using a peep so my shots will be around 100yds or less. Interested in those that hunt with a 45-70 What have served you well in the field? I’m not recoil shy and don’t plan on doing much shooting from the bench.

God Bless,

MM

405gr .459 cast WFN PB or GC @~1200/1300fps - RL7/Starline brass.

I have a large supply of Remington 405gr JSP. I load them to 1800fps from a Guide Gun, 46gr of H4198, Starline brass, WLR primers, 2.55" COL. Lee Factory Crimp.
I don't believe that bullet is available anymore.

Couple things.

Speer 400 grain JFP. I found accuracy around 1550 - 1600 fps. I got 3-shot groups under 0.7" or better, center to center at 100 yards, with 52 grains of H4895, Winchester brass, and Federal 210M match primers from a stainless marlin guide gun. It shot very well in an 1895 GBL and in an 1895 Cowboy rifle.

RCBS 405 grain flat point, gas checked, sized 0.459. Actual weight was around 425 grains. With 47 grains of IMR 3031, again, WW brass and Fed 210M primers, groups were around 1.5 inches at 100 yards with the ss guide gun. Didn't shoot many (any?) in the other two.

For lower recoil yet, the Remington 405 grain factory ammo shot under MOA in 3 of the 5 Marlin .45-70s I've owned.

Hardcast does not require high velocity to be effective. Try it.

I use black powder with 500 and 530 gr grease groove and paper patch bullets in my 45-70's, you may want to try RL-7 powder under the 350gr Hornady jacketed flat point, not a deer or black bear alive I wouldn't shoot with that bullet.

Thanks for the input guys, shot 2 types of factory ammo, 300gr and 325. I’m going to top out at 350 gr. for reloads, I’m not really recoil shy and those pack plenty of punch on my end.

I shot a 300 gr hp the full length of a mule deer and the recovered bullet weighed 186 gr. Muzzle velocity was book value 2100 FPS, don’t know how fast it was going at 90 yds

Don’t neglect the lighter bullet in a 45-70

250 grain Barnes TSX

I'm going to try these to see how they shoot. Have you had any luck hunting with them?

Yes, they work awesome on whitetails. H4198 produces one hole groups at 100 yards out of an 1895 SBL

Good. Have some of that, plus N120 and RL7 to try.

Thank you.

I like a 300 grain cast bullet. Less recoil and it works nicely.

I shot a doe with my "primitive" 45-70 BPCR fitted with a VX-3 3-9x40 CDS, set up for the 250 TSX over Vv n-120. It's a Barnes (Marlin) accuracy load at 2,550 fps out of a 24" barrel. I never clocked it out of the 30 BPCR barrel. That big bullet blew thru the deer, scattering pieces of lung tissue on the far side. She made a few leaps, blowing blood like a fire hose before she piled up. It trashed both lungs, blew the top out of her heart.

I shot a pig at 100 yds. The bullet left a pattern on the far rib cage, like a broken window. There was the exit hole, with fracture lines in the rib cage, several inches in all directions, radiating from the hole. I've not seen that before or since. Also blew lung tissue out the far hole.

With the Barnes load and the dedicated CDS, I can put that bullet on a pie plate at 300 yds all day long. That was the requirement at a previous deer camp to qualify a gun for a long shot. Those 300 yd. groups were around 5" or so. Not bad for a big bullet that looks like an ash tray turned backwards.

DF

Not so primitive, primitive weapon. I got it used; it had a trigger job, came with a spread sheet with multiple loads of all kinds. and really pretty wood.

What powder are you using for that 300 gr cast bullet? I've got some to try. Was thinking that a fun, light load could be built with a 300 gr bullet.

Thanks, Guy

Favorite 45-70 loads are

1) 405 gr Remington JSP over 47.0 gr VV N-133, and 2) 350 gr Hornady FN over 50.0 gr VV N-133.

Not because deer need that much to pull down...it's the occasional 300-400 lb hog seen here in my part of Texas that needs it.

If deer were my only concern...my little 260 Remington would get the nod all the time.

Bingox2.
And you can eat right up to the hole

Anything you can fling out of a 45-70 will kill any deer DRT with a good shot. I used the old standard 405 grain Remington jacketed flat points and they were devastating. Get them moving over 1400fps and nothing will stand there and take it. I had mine cranked up a little higher.........and they killed at both ends of the gun. Just find a bullet and load that shoots well, and stick to it. No need to re-invent the wheel, the 350 fp and 405 fp bullets are fine from any maker..

I load a Remington 300 gr hp to 2000 fps with RL7. Deer just drop when hit.

Yes. If it fits a 45-70 barrel it will be fine. Absolutely no need to hot rod 350-405 grain slugs as such will kill at both ends. They will give more than adequate penetration at 22 LR velocities like 1,200 fps.

In my Marlin LXR 24" Bbl 45-70. I make & use the Lyman mold 330gr HP plain base.. . Cast from straight scrap wheel weights Brn 10.5 to 11.0 hardness. I use enough IMR-4198 to drive the bullet about 1650 fps. Out of this rifle it delivers excellent accuracy ( about 1.5" ) at 100 yd with a 2.5X scope. . This bullet has shown it's ability to not only take deer cleanly , but elk also within 150yds. Will easily shoot completely thru mature muley bucks even at acute angles. . It will do this with very reasonable recoil for a 45-70. As stated absolutely no need to hot rod the 45-70. If you wish to shoot the 400 gr or heavier bullets which I don't see necessary for deer, no need to exceed 1250 fps, If you do so recoil can become brutal. Remember, , squeeze the trigger. Best to you..

In my 1895SBL, I've settled on 2 bullets that shoot to the same POI. One is the cast performance 405gr wlngc over 50grs of Varget. The other is 45grs of reloder 7 and a hornady 350gr FP. The 405gr does an even 1500fps out of my SBL. I have not chronied the 350 hornady.

Some say Varget is to slow for the 45-70, and I do get some unburned powder. However, I get very good accuracy and 1500fps and a 405gr hard cast will do anything I need it to. I have not killed any game with it yet. It's also fairly easy on the shoulder. I tried max loads just because, and the recoil in my opinion is not worth the extra FPS..

I'm mainly a deer hunter with the occasional black bear and hog thrown in. I used the 405 REM FP and 400 Speer FP quite a bit, pushed up to about 28,000 CUP per Brian Pearces data, but settled on the 300 grain Hornady Hollowpoint at no more than Trapdoor levels. Actually about 1600fps. Expansion is much better and deer drop faster.

Went to the Lehigh 380gr WFN copper solid at ~1500fps...for anything in lower US.

Got a Win 1886 (Jap) and a Marlin (Remington) in 45-70 and a 45-90 1895 (Win).

I gotta say almost any bullet will likely work. I mostly shoot ~ 400+ grain cast up to 500+ grain. I also shoot 350 grain jacketed.

That Marlin is super light. It isn’t a bench gun. But of the three that’s the one I’ve shot most. My friends don’t like to shoot that Marlin with 405 grain cast at full load.

Lyman aperture sights on 45-70 and very spendy sights for the 45-90 for BPCR shoots.

If I were to pick one bullet it would be a flat nose cast with gas check and I like ~ 400-405 grain best.

Ken,
How fast are you pushing these out of your SBL?

I have killed everything from whitetail to cape buffalo .405 jsp Remington fp 49.0 gr IMR 3031 in my Marlin 1895ss. Of which I stockpiled 1000 when they were still available in bulk.
My buddy shot his 458 WM into my dead cape buff just to see what difference in penetration there would be compared to my 45-70 405 load both our mushroomed bullets were in fact just under the skin on off side shoulder. No difference at all.

With the above posted and the Remington 405 not available in shops anymore I would look hard at a 300 gr Speer as a good all around bullet pushed around 1800 fps

Barnes data shows 2,550 fps over Vv. n-120 and that's Marlin, not Ruger #1 load. Out of my "primitive" BPCR, it's a real killer. I can put them on a pie plate (4" groups) at 300 yds. all day long.

I've killed WT's and hogs. It blows a huge hole, even lung tissue blown out. One hog had broken ribs on the exit, rib cage looked like a broken window, with multiple fracture lines running out from the large exit hole. They don't shoot as accurate in my Marlins. The very long Badger barrel on the Browning BPCR is excellent, will group these bullets around an inch at a hundred.

The VX-3 3-9x40 CDS is set up for this round. Really not that primitive, but adheres to the primitive season rules. I'd call it "primitive on steroids"...

DF

mogwai

Calculator says that load starting at 2100 fps is still rocking along at 1997 at 100 yards.
YMMV

One of the warehouses online had the Remington 405 grain JSP in bulk boxes of 500 a few years back. I bought two of them for no reason in particular and loaded some of them over 48.0 grains of IMR 3031 CCI 215 into Starline brass with a good rolled crimp accurate killers on anything I am likely to shoot at in the lower 48. Recoil is stiff but not unreasonable an well under max in a Marlin.That load and bullet has killed everything for me out of both a Marlin 1895SS and a Buffalo Classic single shot up to including a 500# black bear, caribou and several elk. Buy those bullets up if you can find some they are inexpensive.

Remington 405 grain bullets on GB right now.

I used a cast Lyman GC'd 445 grain over a case full of IMR4064, Win primers.It is accurate and will drop most anything that walks on most of the continents. I was shooting it out of a Siamese Mauser.

I used a cast Lyman GC'd 445 grain over a case full of IMR4064, Win primers.It is accurate and will drop most anything that walks on most of the continents. I was shooting it out of a Siamese Mauser.

I love the bullet action of the Hornady 350 grain FN if you can launch them at 1900ft/sec or more. Hang together well yet still expand. Good balance of penetration and wound channel along with great accuracy.

My"go-to" was the Speer 300 jacketed. It seemed to hold together better than other 300 grain bullets. They call it a hollow point but it is actually just a dimple in the nose and not a deep cavity like the Remington. I used a top end load of Re-7 under them and deer ell where they stood. Likewise performance in a 450ME.
They will come apart if you hit heavy bone so no shoulder shooting. For a rib cage shot, they are great.

NEI, 480 gr., looks a lot like an elongated Keith type SWC, cast 16-1. Can't tell you what it does other than kill things dead where they stand, never recovered one....to include a head on shot at elk. Penetration was from brisket, out ham. Everything I've shot with it folded up where it stood.

Even the standard old round nosed 350gr Hornads are tough customers, back in the day, and with a Bud that wanted MAX loads, I put together some in his 1885 Browning 45-70 with RL-7 that bumped 2400 fps, he literally blew the hell out of deer, pigs, and one or two black bears, I told him they would be fine and may even penetrate more at 2-2100 fps, no way, he said.

I have 50 rounds of the flat nosed 350's loaded at 2150 fps in a 458 Win Mag for around the thickets hunting, haven't hit anything with them yet.

I think you will see some pretty quick kills at 2150!

I bet so, trouble is, it's so fun to shoot, I may have to load another 50 before this fall's hunting season, it's built on a 98 Mauser action sitting in a syn stock with all metal cerakoted, it's an all weather/all game rifle.

The 350 Hornady flatpoint, as others have mentioned, will work perfectly for your needs. I load mine with I-4198 which depending on your load, works well between 1600-to 2000 fps. Internet search the 45-70 and that bullet, plenty to read on it in hunting situations.

In a bolt gun I'd be tempted by the 300 Barnes original spitzer. It will let you hang on to some speed at distance. (b.c. 0.291)

Started at 2400fps, you'd have 3837ft pounds at the muzzle
Sighted in at 175 yards you would be 2.2 inches high at 100 and at 200 yards you would be 1.8" low and still have 1857 ft/sec and 2297 ft pounds. I used this bullet in a 458 magnum for several years and really liked it. It's making me think about a BLR in 450 Marlin.

10-4 North, Thanks, one thing about our hobby, endless projects abound.

You load up a lever gun or a lightweight bolt with any bullet over 250_grs to north of 2000fps and it will thump on both ends.