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458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? #14159540 09/27/19
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rost495 Offline OP
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This should be good.

Anyway have the chance to start helping/guiding on the peninsula in the spring. I have a 458 mag I've shot pigs and deer with, 350 federal factory soft points. Have some Hornady of the same bullet I think, for reloading.

But for big stuff that needs to go down now, I lean really hard to Barnes almost all the time.

After looking, my mind says 450 barnes TSX.

I'm open to hearing suggestions though, but I don't like overly expanding bullets period and certainly not for this use. Partition even has left a bad taste at times.. But again I'm willing to hear all comers. I am no fan at all of ballistic tip type performance no matter the bullet brand....

Need to decide, work a load up and do some practice.

I do have some hard cast heavy lead that I was going to play with, big meplat, but I"m not sure thats the best choice when it might be up to me to help solve a problem.

Thanks, I think, Jeff


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
BP-B2

Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14159645 09/28/19
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Jeff, am going through my fairly extensive collection of 458 ammo for this upcoming bear season. The factory loaded Norma 500 gr Swift ammo is only showing 1850 fps across my chronograph. Deadly I am sure but not what I want. My old 500 gr Trophy Bonded and Woodleigh Bullets are around 2050 and Buffalo Bore 450 and 400 gr loads with the excellent Kodiak bullets between 2200 and 2400 fps
Or factory Nosler 400 gr at 2100 fps.

What I have learned is that with the 458 is that with any good bullet, from 350 gr and up, is that they all work well.

As my load with the Woodleighs work well and I have quite a few, I will probably use them.


Phil Shoemaker
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Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14159824 09/28/19
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I didn’t like the 350 Hornady, had one leave the jacket under the hide of a Kodiak blacktail on the entry side. The whole jacket!
I switched to the 350gr Speer MagTip after that. Probably a fluke deal with the Hornady but I never had it happen with the Speer. They can be driven 2400 or more pretty easily, I used H4198 to do so.

Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14160484 09/28/19
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I have always like the 500 Hornady bullets in my 458 and the new bonded DGX ones like I used in Zimbabwe are fantastic.
But I never found that the 350 Hornady bullets held up all that well at 458 velocities .


Phil Shoemaker
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Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14163040 09/29/19
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rost495 Offline OP
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Thanks for the replies.

Phil- any comments on powder with a 450ish...? Spring and fall seasons should not be extreme temps I don't think, as such almost any powder would work I think, but barnes book suggets TAC, which has been really temp stable for us in small rounds, and I like it, but any flies on a ball powder for this use? Or are you a factory ammo guy maybe ?

Thanks much for your time and input.

Jeff


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
IC-A

Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14166678 09/30/19
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This site is an amazing source of experience based information. Once you learn to separate the wheat from the chaff. I don't own a 458 win mag but still enjoy the quality of knowledge available here.


mike r


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Wish you were better

Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
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Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14166710 09/30/19
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Jeff, I have always had good luck with IMR 3031 and 73 grains easily gave me 2200 fps.
With the 500 gr bullets it's hard to beat AA 2230


Phil Shoemaker
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www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14167240 09/30/19
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The Alaska Bulletworks 450 grain FMJ Kodiak at 2150 fps worked well for us on Cape Buffalo in Africa and should work well on large bears.
They did shoot through some buff, so be sure of what is behind your bear before firing.


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Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14167243 09/30/19
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The Alaska Bulletworks 450 grain FMJ Kodiak at 2150 fps worked well for us on Cape Buffalo in Africa and should work well on large bears.
They did shoot through some buff, so be sure of what is behind your bear before firing.


CRS, NRA Benefactor Life Member, Whittington Center, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS
Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14167620 09/30/19
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A good softpoint puts bears down a lot quicker than solids !
Which is desirable as wounded bears can cover a lot of rugged, wet, brushy country in a short period of time and leave little in the way of a blood trail .


Phil Shoemaker
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www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
IC-B

Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14168599 10/01/19
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rost495 Offline OP
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Thanks for the replies!

3031 I have used and can use again. Was just not sure of Ball powder like TAC. Tac has worked really well for various uses since its been on the market.

But the smartest thing here i bet is grab more 3031 and get rolling so to speak.


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14173893 10/03/19
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Phil do you think going lighter to 350 or 400 grains allows a faster follow up shot, this is my recollection of the 458. This was also in the F&G report on bear rifles the 375 won points over the 458 for follow up shots in their tests.

Are there any negative trade offs for the lighter bullets assuming they are Kodiak, Woodleigh and the like.


"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14174635 10/03/19
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They should but I never noticed a big difference. However I did when I used the 505 Gibbs. During a charge both the slowness caused by the long bolt throw and the additional recoils became very apparent.


Phil Shoemaker
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CFII
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14178301 10/04/19
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Your .505 observation confirms a suspicion from my own experience. I like the .375 and 9.3 because they have sufficient power with recoil gentle enough for true rapid fire; for me anyway. I once considered a .458 but thankfully tried one out first. I quickly determined the recoil was too much for me to shoot as fast as I felt I should be able.

Before long I plan to have a .416 Taylor made up and load it to mimic the .450/400 just to have a bigger bullet I can still shoot quickly.

Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14178374 10/04/19
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Ya know - sometimes even here on the Fire, some awesome info can be had.

Thanks all.

Guy

Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14183079 10/06/19
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Originally Posted by rost495
Thanks for the replies!

3031 I have used and can use again. Was just not sure of Ball powder like TAC. Tac has worked really well for various uses since its been on the market.

But the smartest thing here i bet is grab more 3031 and get rolling so to speak.




I use TAC in my 458 Lott, it has been the best powder I have found. I supposed it would work well in the Winchester too. I want to say 77 grains with a 450 Swift or TSX but not positive on that load. Worked outstanding in Africa. I used 430 hard cast on elk in AZ and it was perfect. I tried the 480 DGX or whatever Hornady called those abortions. They came apart in an elk and then veered off, had to follow-up a bull about 300 yards that crawled into a river bottom after a DGX failed. Maybe the new bonded ones are better.


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Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14184492 10/07/19
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rost495 Offline OP
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Thanks


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: 458Win] #14186383 10/08/19
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Originally Posted by 458Win
They should but I never noticed a big difference. However I did when I used the 505 Gibbs. During a charge both the slowness caused by the long bolt throw and the additional recoils became very apparent.


Mr. shoemaker you should write a book on your Alaskan guiding experiences and wild animal encounters. I enjoying reading about guns, bullets and hunting. I would buy a book from you. Good stuff


"When guns are outlawed,only the outlaws will have guns".
Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: remingtonman] #14186644 10/08/19
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[quote=remingtonman

Mr. shoemaker you should write a book on your Alaskan guiding experiences and wild animal encounters. I enjoying reading about guns, bullets and hunting. I would buy a book from you. Good stuff
[/quote]

I second this idea. Those winters are pretty long which should allow some time for writing. Also just the chapter on the guns you have owned would be fascinating to someone like me. It could be in the lines of Sarber, Waugh and Whelen. I bet JB would coach you on self publishing and maybe even act as editor. (I am sure he will appreciate me volunteering his services)


"When you disarm the people, you commence to offend them and show that you distrust them either through cowardice or lack of confidence, and both of these opinions generate hatred." Niccolo Machiavelli
Re: 458 Win Mag Big Bear Bullet? [Re: rost495] #14186678 10/08/19
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I have never hunted the big bears, so cut me some slack if this is a stupid question. But, why wouldn't a double-barrel be a good option if fast follow up shots are sometimes called for?

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