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Originally Posted by 458Win
While many consider the 410 a kids gun, I have learned it is more of a show offs gun.
Which might explain its allure .


Or a pre made excuse for missing?


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The .410 has a mystique??

Who knew.



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I remember being very young walking through the fall woods with a .410 H&R in hand and a pocketful of those long 3 inch shells. Vivid in my memory they were green, Remington "power piston." I thought they were very cool. Still do. Mystique? Yes, for me.

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Originally Posted by battue
As mentioned, disagree on the learning and it making you a better hunter.

It wouldn't take long before the misses would have you quitting.

My perspective doesn't change, in that for a one gun battery I would come up with something other than the .410. Dad started me with and old SxS 12Ga something that reliably worked and a German 98 8mm, that he worked out a stock for. Got two bangs max out of the shotgun and 3 or 4 out of the 98. We didn't sneak up on much other than Squirrels. Rabbits were taken on the run and Pheasants on the fly-who would have thunk, that could be any kind of learning curve grin- behind a neighbors pack of Beagles. Deer were everywhere at the time and the 98 was an excellent option for sneaking up on them. Although the truth was it wasn't all that hard, because practice was easy, repetitive and frequently successful. All three being basic to learning.

To answer your question: A beater Ithaca 37 16gauge.




I did my share of missing and I didn't quit, so that doesn't hold water, so to speak.

I admitted that the .410 wasn't the best shotgun, but that's what I had, so I had to learn to use it. And I'll say it again..... I think I'm a better hunter because of it.

We too sneaked up on squirrels, ran rabbits with dogs and sneaked up on them, hunted quail with a dog or walked them up, sneaked up on ducks and jumped them up, dont have pheasants, and didn't have deer until I was 13 yrs old. By the time we had a deer season, 3 whole days that first year, killing one wasn't that hard..... sat still, be patient, and be quiet. Didn't have to take a 100 yd shot with a rifle, didn't have a rifle, so I used what I had and it worked fine. Dead is dead.

I would have liked to have had a pump shotgun. I could have went Bang-Bang-Bang and bought a lot more shells. But, I had a .410 and I learned to make my one shot count, most of the time.



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We differ in many ways, another example being sitting still most of the day while Deer hunting. For myself, it is a recipe for boredom. Anyway, congrats on what seems to have been an interesting childhood.


Last edited by battue; 10/02/19.

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Yeah, I guess it all depends on what you had and where you grew up. And for what it's worth.... I use to sit on deer stands most, if not all day. Not anymore. I hope I've gotten smarter since I've aged somewhat. Depending on what's going on, who's playing football, what the weather is, about 2-3 hrs and I'm ready to head to the house. I'm also bad about taking a Louis L'Amour western and reading it, while sitting. whistle


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Originally Posted by Clarkm
Most break action 410s are good for a great deal more bolt thrust and pressure than a 458 Win Mag in a Mauser 98, Rem700, Sav110, or Win M70.


This is a ridiculous comment. Go to the Hodgdon or Alliant web site or the Lyman shotshell reloading manual and you will find that the maximum pressures listed for .410 loads are about 1/4 of those for a .458.


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There's several comments above about sitting in a deer stand. Most of my deer hunting was done sitting in a stand. Was it boring? Well, maybe but much of the time I was too busy shivering and trying to fend off hypothermia to feel bored. I know campfire members hunt in different areas and the hunting can be very different. When I was young, I followed the family tradition to stick it out as long as I possibly could. I did that for two reasons. One was because I really wanted to get a deer - and this was the best way by far. The other reason I wanted to be one of hardiest of hunters who stayed in the stand from before dawn to after dusk. Getting out of the stand and walking around was a way to show you didn't have what it took. Stand hunting in the deep woods is hardly relaxing. A good way to not get a deer was to read a book or even just stare in one spot. Stand hunting means constant vigilance. Constantly looking all around you and very slowly turning your head to see all around you. Many times, I spotted a deer just because I happened to look that way. I suspect over the years there were dozens of deer who walked within sight but were gone within a few seconds. It involves a lot of discipline to restrict your movements and make as little noise as possible. One of the reasons I was so happy when I got my deer is then I could spend more of my hunting time walking.

I'm not saying every season was bitterly cold but a lot were and I'll never forget how cold I got. Even now, I'm remembering sitting in a snow-drenched stand on a very cold day with the H&R .410 across my legs. Earlier in this thread I mentioned wounding a deer with the .410. I remember now more of what happened. I was in the stand with my Dad. About five trotting deer came within sight. He whispered, "Deer". I know he wanted to me to get a shot but I was not in a position that I could shoot. So, he took a shot and dropped one. That turned them around and they ran across my line of sight. I threw the .410 up and dropped a running doe (though heavy brush) at 50 or so yards. That was the first shot I ever fired at a big game animal. I've already told the rest of the story - we went over there and there was a pool of blood and a blood trail leading away. We followed it a good ways but the blood trail eventually stopped. I didn't get. I realize had I been using a 20ga., there is a greater probability I would have had it. I never hunted deer with a .410 again, but I still enjoyed carrying it in pursuit of grouse and squirrels. So maybe a 20 gauge would have been better but it was a .410 that was the fixture in my youth.

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if i don`t kill the critter or pest with my 410 or its to big i smack it with a 223. but if i bird hunt we just use 12- 20 gauges reason ammo is cheap and with kids 12- 20 gauge cheap ammo is better ! if i was the only shooter in the house i would probably get a 28 gauge but the gun and the ammo would be used by the boys to much ! i buy ammo buy the cases now we go thru pleny shootin trap and hunting 10-15 cases and i still load 1000 rds. but boy they sure smile when we unload ammo ,and do they like Winchester AA TRAP AMMO !

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Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Originally Posted by Clarkm
Most break action 410s are good for a great deal more bolt thrust and pressure than a 458 Win Mag in a Mauser 98, Rem700, Sav110, or Win M70.


This is a ridiculous comment. Go to the Hodgdon or Alliant web site or the Lyman shotshell reloading manual and you will find that the maximum pressures listed for .410 loads are about 1/4 of those for a .458.

While your comment is correct, it's not at all related to the comment by Clarkm who commented on the strength of the break action assembly.....not the force of the ammo.

Last edited by vapodog; 10/03/19.
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Speaking of .410's, any opinions on the Hornady critical defense round which includes two .35 caliber round balls and a .41 caliber FTX slug?

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/835704329

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My Dad was old school. He bought his boys a shotgun upon their 12th b-day and you used it for everything including deer. That's how my Grandfather did it for his boys too. It used to be common. He got me a 20 gauge Wingmaster which I did really well on the birds and small game with. Oddly enough he got my younger brother a bolt action 410 which I really don't remember him having any success with.

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Originally Posted by moosemike
My Dad was old school. He bought his boys a shotgun upon their 12th b-day and you used it for everything including deer. That's how my Grandfather did it for his boys too. It used to be common. He got me a 20 gauge Wingmaster which I did really well on the birds and small game with. Oddly enough he got my younger brother a bolt action 410 which I really don't remember him having any success with.


Not surprising about your brother. I think bolt action and 410 are probably the absolute worst combo for successful wing shooting.

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Originally Posted by vapodog
Originally Posted by IndyCA35
Originally Posted by Clarkm
Most break action 410s are good for a great deal more bolt thrust and pressure than a 458 Win Mag in a Mauser 98, Rem700, Sav110, or Win M70.


This is a ridiculous comment. Go to the Hodgdon or Alliant web site or the Lyman shotshell reloading manual and you will find that the maximum pressures listed for .410 loads are about 1/4 of those for a .458.

While your comment is correct, it's not at all related to the comment by Clarkm who commented on the strength of the break action assembly.....not the force of the ammo.


I suspect that if you fired a .410 load with 50,000 or 60,000 psi in a break open shotgun, you would peel the chamber open like a banana and probably bend the firearm "off face."

Break open big game rifles, usually doubles, fire cartridges which are loaded to lower pressures than similar rounds intended for bolt action rifles.

Whatever the virtues of a .410 might be, containing high pressures is not one of them.


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Originally Posted by moosemike
My Dad was old school. He bought his boys a shotgun upon their 12th b-day and you used it for everything including deer. That's how my Grandfather did it for his boys too. It used to be common. He got me a 20 gauge Wingmaster which I did really well on the birds and small game with. Oddly enough he got my younger brother a bolt action 410 which I really don't remember him having any success with.


I suspect your brother was quite envious of your Wingmaster 20 gauge. I'm curious - has he pursued hunting to the extent that you have?

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Originally Posted by Nostalgiafan
Originally Posted by moosemike
My Dad was old school. He bought his boys a shotgun upon their 12th b-day and you used it for everything including deer. That's how my Grandfather did it for his boys too. It used to be common. He got me a 20 gauge Wingmaster which I did really well on the birds and small game with. Oddly enough he got my younger brother a bolt action 410 which I really don't remember him having any success with.


I suspect your brother was quite envious of your Wingmaster 20 gauge. I'm curious - has he pursued hunting to the extent that you have?




So envious he begged me to sell it to him after I moved on to a 12 gauge. I did and he never really seemed to get into hunting much beyond Deer. Since then he went down the wrong road and is currently in prison and as a felon his hunting career is about over I should think. I'd love to have gotten that 20 gauge Wingmaster back but it was pissed away years ago.

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My 1st shotgun was a 410 double I got from my dads aunt in exchange for labor around her place when I was an early teen. I do not remember the make but it was most likely from Sears or Western Auto or Wards. I killed at least one pheasant and numerous rabbits and a few quail with it. I would often shoot 3" shells in it even though it only had 2 1/2"chambers. As I recall back then "the 50's" 410's were cheaper than 20 or 12 GA shells. I later sold it to my BIL.

This past Spring I decided to scratch the 410 itch and bought a Beretta 686 410. I must admit I am amazed at how well the 410 will bust clay targets if I do my part. It is fun to turn them to dust on occasion. My scores with it at Sporting Clays are not too much worse than if I am using one of my 28 GA's. I also am happy to have it now that I am recovering from my 2nd rotator cuff surgery on my right shoulder. It will be getting a workout as soon as the doc lets start shooting again.

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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by Nostalgiafan
Originally Posted by moosemike
My Dad was old school. He bought his boys a shotgun upon their 12th b-day and you used it for everything including deer. That's how my Grandfather did it for his boys too. It used to be common. He got me a 20 gauge Wingmaster which I did really well on the birds and small game with. Oddly enough he got my younger brother a bolt action 410 which I really don't remember him having any success with.


I suspect your brother was quite envious of your Wingmaster 20 gauge. I'm curious - has he pursued hunting to the extent that you have?




So envious he begged me to sell it to him after I moved on to a 12 gauge. I did and he never really seemed to get into hunting much beyond Deer. Since then he went down the wrong road and is currently in prison and as a felon his hunting career is about over I should think. I'd love to have gotten that 20 gauge Wingmaster back but it was pissed away years ago.


Well... one wonders if his life would have been different if he too, would have been given a Wingmaster 20 gauge at age 12? That early success and enjoyment with hunting during formative years can have an impact.

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Originally Posted by Nostalgiafan
Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by Nostalgiafan
Originally Posted by moosemike
My Dad was old school. He bought his boys a shotgun upon their 12th b-day and you used it for everything including deer. That's how my Grandfather did it for his boys too. It used to be common. He got me a 20 gauge Wingmaster which I did really well on the birds and small game with. Oddly enough he got my younger brother a bolt action 410 which I really don't remember him having any success with.


I suspect your brother was quite envious of your Wingmaster 20 gauge. I'm curious - has he pursued hunting to the extent that you have?




So envious he begged me to sell it to him after I moved on to a 12 gauge. I did and he never really seemed to get into hunting much beyond Deer. Since then he went down the wrong road and is currently in prison and as a felon his hunting career is about over I should think. I'd love to have gotten that 20 gauge Wingmaster back but it was pissed away years ago.


Well... one wonders if his life would have been different if he too, would have been given a Wingmaster 20 gauge at age 12? That early success and enjoyment with hunting during formative years can have an impact.



You make a valid point. While a lot of my friends were starting down the wrong path I was too addicted to my hunting dogs and my 20 gauge to follow along with them. I don't know if it would've been as exciting with a 410.

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