Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters "Allure" of the .410

I once had the owner of my LGS tell me "I'll take a .410 in trade every chance I get. 410's and 243's are always a quick sale". The 243 makes sense for a number of reasons but considering what we use shotguns for I've always wondered what makes the 410 so popular? And yes I've owned one or two before and have found them to be a decent squirrel gun. And they're fun if not humbling on Clays. But it always seemed to me the 28 gauge should've been the popular one and the 410 should've faded out.

A lot of mystique with this 410. A pretty rare lever gun from the past:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/831056259

And yes, sniffing a paper shotgun shell after firing is a joy that should cost a lot more than it does

Mystique: "Mystery combined with reverence and mystical power."

One can point perfectly with a .410 and still miss. Mystique? I don't think so....

I agree on the 28 gauge, always shot them pretty good on the skeet field. I’ve heard the skeet shooters call the .410 the “idiot stick”.

I alwayss thought the 410 was for those that couldn't hit a squirrel or sitting grouse with a 22.

The 28 gauge is better for wing shooting IMO.

I use a .410 O/U for upland hunting and love it's light weight. If one goes to "Ballistic Products.com" and pays his dues for reloading this shotshell, he finds that it's a fairly adequate upland hunting tool. Use the right wads, the right powder and you'll be surprised how well it keeps up to the 28 Ga I like #7 shot to keep the pellet count up and find that it kills pheasants quite nicely. It also works well for younger shooters learning the "ropes".....but make no mistake about it.....it's not a Kids gun....it's a serious hunting tool.. If you get one, get a good one.....

Well, I disagree on the Kids part. Last thing I would do is give a Kidd a .410 and expect them to hit much. A .410 is something to be used by accomplished shooters that know how to shoot.

I have one of those Marlins, it used to be my grandfather's.

He was initially given it to protect the truck farm they were hired to work during the Depression. They were given a place to live and a small portion of the crop as pay. When it was eventually foreclosed on, my grandfather was given the gun in lieu of crops. He was able to get a job right away so did not need to sell the gun. The gun ended up with one of my uncles before my grandfather died so it wasn't one of them stolen after his death. I ended up with it upon my uncle's death a year ago.

The 410's popularity is based in large part on nostalgia. Many of my generation and older started out with a 410 and the "idiot stick" bring back fond memories as the mind tends to forget all the bad. I suspect future generations will not see the 410 in the same light and its desirability will fall off.

I have three 410s, the Iver Johnson single shot that I started out with; a standard Browning Citori that I bought in the early 1980s; and the Marlin I inherited. The first still sees some use shooting pests in the yard, the Citori is mostly a target gun now that the woodcock season opens after grouse become legal game. It gets occasional use on doves and will often use it for dog training when I'm the gunner and bobwhites are being used.

The Marlin is a safe queen. It sits in the Buffalo Bill museum as a research subject. I don't know if it is on display or in a back room but I do know it going there opened room for another gun! I've sent a few guns there, it kept me from having to buy another safe which my wife would have quickly noticed.

I accept the technical reasons why the 410 is a poorer choice for most applications. For many of us there is an attachment component that is not logical, but potent. I have a young boy connection to the 410. Other than a .22, it was the first gun I hunted with. An H&R single-shot was my first bird and big game gun (deer). I can say it was an exceptionally poor choice for deer. I suppose the 410 slug is about on par in power with a 110 grain 38 special. At a young age, I knocked a deer over with a 410 slug at 50 or so yards. I recall my Dad was shocked I hit it. We thought I had it as we saw it go down and didn't see it get back up. When we went over there, there was a pool of blood and blood trail. We followed it a good ways but eventually the blood trail stopped. I was darn disappointed. The following season, I was sitting in the deerstand with a .303 British.

I have many pleasant memories of carrying the H&R 410 hunting grouse all day through the deep woods. The first shotgun I bought with my own money was a Winchester M1200 12 gauge slide action. My memories of carrying that through the woods all day are not as pleasant. I did find it a heck of a lot better on ducks. For grouse, I ultimately found the 20 gauge Remington M17 to be the best compromise. More powerful than the 410 and the Remington was a quick and light-handing fast repeater. Many times, the fact that it had a magazine tube filled with shells came in very handy.

Seems like that should read "mistake of the .410" ? I've had a few. They are good for rabbits where it's really thick and you don't want to put too much shot in them. Other than that, can't dependably and decisively kill a squirrel out of the top of a tall hickory when you're standing right underneath. Perhaps with that new tungsten super shot they would work decently.

Word is TTS changes their capabilities significantly.

So what do the gun writers think of the .410?

My .410 is a little Savage 220 I bought because it got in my way in the LGS. Nicely redone years ago, by its appearance. I've yet to shoot it, but my grandson did use it to miss a squirrel.

Might take it for a walk this Winter and hope for a rabbit.

OK, a couple of you take exception with the word "mystique". Perhaps I should call it the "allure of the 410"?

The allure of the .410 mainly exists in competition skeet. Other than that it has a very limited following.

I don't know about that. So many guys I talk to have them.

Nostalgiafan,

I owned and hunted with several .410's over the decades, but gave up on them after finding the 28-gauge was far more effective on any kind of gamebirs from doves on up, without having to resort to expensive, extra-heavy shot.

Started out with a single shot H&R .410 as my first “bird gun”
Killed a bunch of doves, quail, and ducks with it as a kid. Probably made me a better hunter.
And I’ve killed a lot of doves and quail and several pheasant with my old Winchester Model 42 in .410.

I do prefer a 28 ga over a .410 nowadays but it’s still a lot of fun to hunt with.

The H&R Topper in .410 was the foundation of shooting education for both my brother and myself. Gun is still in the family, near about 65 years old at this point and still in good functioning state. It's primary target these days is iguanas and it hasn't lost an argument yet. And ya, I've killed pigs with it. And doves, quail, ducks, bunnies and squill. A bunch of them.

Outside of the Skeet fields it is good for snakes. If you are going to hunt Birds with it, keep it inside 20 yards max, and one should have a better than good retriever.

Mossberg pump 410s seem to be pretty popular and I see Walmart carries them

The .410 seems to be a Northern Ontario favourite for ground swiping grouse in the Fall.

Jim

Most break action 410s are good for a great deal more bolt thrust and pressure than a 458 Win Mag in a Mauser 98, Rem700, Sav110, or Win M70.

I have done the math. I have done the tests. That does not mean a 410 choke likes to see a 400 gr 458 bullet at very high velocity.

my first shotgun was a 20guage H&R topper at about age 10, first quail shot with that. foolishly a few years later i traded it in on a 870 16guage wanting more fire power. Always regretted that, which is the reason every time i run across one, if the price is right, i buy it.

I have a number of .410's. I have migrated down from 12guage to .410 for popping dove, etc. Just a lot more fun to me.
one of my favorites belonged to an old woman that had to get rid of her guns moving into a rest home. It is a breakopen single shot .410 that when opened barrel folds over into the bottom of the buttstock. just perfect for the floor of the truck.
it would have been built during the early part of the last century. come to think of it, it did do a squirrel in a couple of years ago.

Here they are thought of as snake guns.

Dad made this critical and damaging mistake when I was in second grade. He traded in the .32 Colt that he had when he was the town marshal in Varina (yes, that's an r, not a g) to get it. Somehow, it turned me into an acceptably accomplished shooter who took some pheasants with it and found hitting them incredibly easy when I "grew up" and moved on to gauges requiring less skill.

For general snake and rabbit shooting I find the 410 just fine and generally have no problems taking the somewhat tougher squirrels with one. I have one of the cheapie's that Walmart sells, a break open that will fold back to the stock and it is my Grandsons favorite gun.

Yep, similar shot charge in a light weight gun that patterns MUCH better yielding better scores ...

Have a couple but ammo prices make them damn expensive to shoot.

I have taken a lot of game with a 410 as large and far away as with bigger gauges

I think 410's should be more popular.

jwp,

Contrary to what a lot of hunters believe, it's easier to kill bigger birds with the .410 than smaller birds. This is because they're bigger targets, which results in more hits from the relatively sparse pattern. This is also why the 28-gauge is even more effective than the .410 on larger birds: The shot charge is only a little bigger than the .410's, but the 28 patterns more evenly--with less shot-stringing, so more of the shot arrive at the same time.

At the other end, the 28 works better than the .410 on smaller birds, where more pattern density is desirable. It's also why 28-gauge averages on skeet (pretty small targets) are significantly higher than .410 averages, despite the relatively short range.

I don't deny that a nicely conditioned vintage Harrington & Richardson single-shot in 28 gauge has much allure. Nope, I wouldn't deny that at all.

Edit: same comment for a Savage M220.

H&R 28g was exactly what I grew up with. Used mostly on doves. ( And also had a Savage 219 30-30. )

I haven't seen a 28 gauge single for sale for many years.

But lots of 410's.

Bruce

Skeet averages define the inefficiency of the .410. A fragile close target and it can’t keep up.

Of course Wayne Mays ran 200 .410 100 birds straights with the .410. However, out of 1000xXXXX rounds to keep it in perspective. Few will ever equal it. Which more or less proves the .410 on flying game is something best left to very accomplished shotgunners. Kids starting out?

This would be an interesting proposition.

One woman I shot with in Mexico used a 410 Superposed and her bird to shell ratio was far better than mine. The men would defer to her and all close birds were hers. Just about ideal when you can pick your shots and the number of birds is irrelevant.

I think they’re popular around here because lots of old timers had one growing up that they used to shoot rabbits, squirrels, and quail on the ground. Back in the late 20’s through the late 40’s around here lots of poor folks foraged for a living. They usually wanted the cheapest gun that gave them the best odds of bringing something edible home.

My great Gramps was a 4 and 10 man, that’s what he called them anyway, fed 8 kids a zillion rabbits with a Stevens Dreadnaught. When he died I bet he had 12 different single shot 410s in the closet he’d picked up here and there and he hadn’t hunted anything in years. They just reminded him of the old days and he liked them.

My great Grandad on the other hand was a little better off and didn’t want pellets in his rabbits and squirrels. For birds he had a 12 gauge, first a Remington M10 and later a M11 and finally a Ithaca M37. But when rabbits or squirrels were on the menu they were to be shot with a 22. And anywhere but the head was a wasteful place to shoot one. He was even known to shoot ducks off the water with a 22 through the head.

I started with one of Gramps’ 410s and it was a terrible handicap for a small boy. My first two dove seasons I managed one on the wing each year. I had much better luck holding tight until they’d land on the pond bank and ground sluicing them. When I went to a single shot 20 my 3rd year my average skyrocketed almost instantly. When my son is ready in the next year or two I’ll find him a 28 or a 20 with very light loads, I don’t know if he’ll have the stick with it that I did if he’s not getting any results and I want to bolster his odds.

Best friend’s Dad growing up hunted with a Winchester Model 42 Pump in .410.
Bird limit on doves back then was 10. Every time we went out, he’d kill 10 doves with 10 shots. Every time.

Most adults I have known that use a 410, are sure to tell
everyone that they use a 410. I always figured that was the reason for using it.

One old guy that ran the shotgun ranges near
Huntingdon used a Browning skeet gun with his 410 barrels all the time.
And he was extremely good with it at skeet.
A machine really, he barely moved the gun, just called and broke birds,

The reference to a grandfather above reminded me my grandfather used to always refer to the .410 as the, "four-hundred and ten."

Fun memory. I hadn't thought of that in a long time.

I’ve kinda always wondered the same thing Moosemike. Remember going to a gun auction a few years back that had a bunch of .410s and it seemed that now matter what make or action they were selling for $250-300 (had several Mossberg pumps and every one of those sold for $275 or more - even when you could get new ones for a little over $200??). I’m a .28 gauge junkie and use a 1905 H&R single shot quite often these days for birds - bird numbers are way down in PA and don’t like the weight anymore so this improved cylinder choked 4.5lb gun comes in handy when I take the setter for a walk😄

PennDog

I like to dove hunt with one, it’s fun, easy on your shoulder!

I think it's just the novelty that makes 410's popular.

They're cute little buggers that's for sure.

I learned to hunt with a Winchester model 42 410 used it into my 20's never found it lacking.

We prefer the .410 for rabbits in front of Beagles as the ranges are short and they don't shoot the rabbits up too bad.

#5 shot is pretty effective farther out that you would think possible.

A bud in HS used a single shot one day to kill several quail as that was his only shotgun at the time. those 7 1/2 shot did good in the woods we were hunting.

The only .410s that I've used very much have been Savage combination guns.

1 of my favorite woods loafing guns is a .22M/.410. It is lighter and a bit more compact than the Savage 24s in 20 gauge, but not as nearly as useful or effective.

EDIT: I have a set of .410, 28, and 20 gauge Briley Tubes that came with my Remington 3200 skeet gun, but I've never shot either the .410 or 28 gauge tubes.

My first experience with a .41 was when I was 11 years old. I was visiting a friend who had one, a 24 Savage with Tenite stock. We were out wandering around with it and I shot a sparrow with it. First thing I ever shot with a shotgun.

My father used a 42 Winchester for snowshoe rabbits for a while. I'd love to have one of those.

Back in the '70's, my brother and I had quite a pack of running Walkers. Every weekend in the winter we would be out running coyotes and foxes. One day we took a local bar owner with us. He was a coon hunter and thought he'd like to try this other hound activity. We put him on a watch and, the first race that day, a red fox ran by him and he killed it. When I went around to round up the dogs and pick him up, I noticed his gun....a single shot .410. I asked him, "Jim, is that a .410." "Yeah," he said, "your brother told me to use buckshot, but I couldn't find any .410 buckshot so I'm using slugs."

I have a .410 accessory barrel for my 99 Savage takedown .303. I took the .303 to Quebec caribou hunting a few years ago and, after I tagged out on 'bou, spend some time wandering the tundra killing spruce grouse with the .410 barrel. Great fun.

Any time there is discussion about the 410 there are those who feel it belongs in the hands of an experienced shooter and those who consider it a kids gun. Count me in the former. I know several shooters here started out with 410s and became competent shooters. For everyone of them I wonder how many kids started with a 410, got discouraged and quit hunting. I'll bet the number is high but we don't hear their stories. I consider myself fortunate I started with a 20 gauge rather than a 410. A 410 is great fun within it's limitations but saddling a kid with an ill fitting single shot, better suited for ground swatting grouse and rabbits, isn't doing them any favors when trying to teach them to shoot aerial targets.

PennDog's 1905 H&R 28 gauge has a lot of novelty going for it too. I was filled with envy when he mentioned that piece.

If you ever shot a 2 pound Cobray 410 shotgun with 3" magnum and 2 square inches of butt, you have felt the recoil that lingers a long time.

Same here. All kids in my family learn to hunt with a savage model 24 in .22lr/.410. I've taken birds, rabbits, squirrels, deer, all with shot or slugs, and .22lr.
I loved that combination gun. Iron sights, selective hammer, side lever release. My brother ended up with it, and I got the A5.
I will have another one, sooner or later.

Was thinking it was the blood, but YMMV.

One thing often ignored when giving a youngster his first shotgun is fit. It's a tough thing to riddle because they are usually still growing. That said, the gauge doesn't matter if the fit is poor.

After shooting a clump of Love grass from the hip inadvertently while lowering the hammer on my .410 as a little fellow I’ve come to kinda dislike the notion of a hammergun for a kid too. That doesn’t have much to do with 410s except that most of them happen to be singles with hammers. Good thing it was beaten into my brain to be aware of where I was pointing it at all times.

Baby sister got to start with my single 20 after I graduated to a repeater. Her average was far better than mine when I started with the 410. Of course I once sat across the pond and watched as she patiently waited for 3 or 4 to get all bunched up on the bank before she loosed load of 8s into them to she may have been stacking the odds.

I almost had a deal worked a while back that sadly fell through. Was trying to talk a guy out of a 28ga 11-48 that had a 26” IC barrel and a stock that had already been chopped off way short for a kiddo or tiny woman. He had a 20ga too with a normal stock and the plan was that I’d get the pair and use the stock off the 20 on the 28 until Jr got big enough and then put the shorty on until such time as he outgrew it and then swap back or let him have the 20. Best laid plans and all that...

i have a Spanish side by side 12ga with savage 410er inserts that live in it almost year round. it constantly amazes me. have taken ruffed grouse with it at 30 yards with #6's three inch. is the only 410 i have at the moment. have had several Stevens single's and many model 24's

That's the 410 I had.

I like the 410 for skeet and Sporting Clays. Shot some squirrels with one long long ago, along with some rabbits and barn pigeons.
My most fun shotgun to shoot is a Rem 1100 .410. What a hoot, absolutely no recoil, everyone I let try it, smiles and laughs at how it feels.
Also have a Mossberg pump and Ted Williams (Stevens) side by side.
I agree I'd never suggest a 410 for a youngster 28ga or 20ga much easier to hit with.
Ammo expensive yes, but I reload and its dirt cheap to reload for. 800 shells out of a bag of shot.
I enjoy shooting mine.
I also have 12's, 20's and a 28ga, and use them all.

I disagree with you..... I learned to shoot with a .410 break-neck. Yeah, I missed a lot, but after learning to shoot and kill things with that gun, it was easy once I graduated to a 12 gauge. It also made me learn to hunt.... had to get closer to kill things. Taught me be patient, learned through trial and error how to stalk, how to judge distance, etc. All in all, I think it made me a better hunter. Teaching a kid how to kill a deer at 100 yds or more with a rifle, doesn't teach them much. Teaching them how to kill a deer at 25 yds or less with a shotgun requires a lot more skill. I'm not saying a shotgun wont kill game at distances beyond 25 yds, but if you kill a deer at that range, you did several things right.

+1

Very important points made here.

I don’t even think 410 slugs are legal for deer here. Of all the hoorah that gets raised around here by guys who don’t think a 223 is enough gun for deer, I’d wager it’s 10x the deer gun a 410 is. I might try it for the novelty as a challenge but I shoot pigs with 38 specials and 9mm for the heck of it and deer with a stick bow. I’d almost view it as setting a kid up for failure or a lost deer.

I just don’t like the idea of starting kids bird hunting with a 410 due to the degree of difficulty involved. Get them frustrated and they may not want to go anymore. Around here the lions share of our bird shooting is doves on waterholes or coming into feed on cut crop fields, not much stalking or woodsmanship involved but lots of opportunities to get some shooting in and practice gun handling.

Of course lots of us started lots of stuff the hard way and we turned out okay. YMMV

I too use the Savage combo gun. This one in a 22/410 o/u. I use it a lot. I take it to the bush on our yearly whitetail hunt which is usually the better part of a week or more. Once the deer tag is filled I carry that little gun around. Many a Ruffy has fallen to this gun. Light, easy to carry and lots of power for it's intended use.

For many years, .410 slugs were not legal here for deer. But that oversight has been corrected. The only issue I have with .410 deer slugs (foster type) is they are harder to find, never seem to go on sale, and cost as much as 12ga. Sabots.

My brother shot a Buck with a 410 slug when he was 12. It was close enough that he saw fur fly on impact but they never had blood and didn't recover it. Claims he had a behind the shoulder hit.

I learned to hunt with the same Essex 410 single shot belonged to my grandfather, then my father. My 3 younger brothers also learned to hunt with it as well. The little gun has to be at least a 100 years old, and when my father died and we were dividing up his guns between us boys, it was one that I choose. It was then the gun that my son learned to hunt with. So, four generations of our family cut their hunting teeth on it. My son has 3 girls, and the oldest 2 deer hunt, but so far have not expressed an interest in shunting with a shotgun.

I still shoot it today, as it is one of my varmint guns that I use around the farm. I have problems with rabbits getting in the crops that I grow in the high tunnel in the cold months, and I often have to shoot several, and the little 410 works perfect for that. I've even been kicking around the idea of getting one in a double or pump, but I'm not ready to retire the original one just yet.

While a few deer have been killed with the .410 slug, it's ft-lb of energy is somewhat of a handicap. Many of the foster type slugs only weigh 85 grains and for a slug of .410 diameter, that's a recipe for low penetration. Further the velocity retention is not what we would like for shots of any kind of extended range. While there are many testimonies of deer killed with it, it simple is a marginal choice for deer hunting.

One would be far better served with a 20 Ga

I acquired a .410 single-shot over 30 years ago and thought I might like it for squirrel hunting. I used it for a few seasons and gave it up. The ammo was too expensive. I let one of my sons hunt with it, but he switched to a 12 GA as soon as he could.

I will say that .410 is a great entree into shotguns for a wee one. However, it causes far too many disappointments as a proper hunting arm for a yute. Mine liked 20 and 12 and still do.

You can make those boys with their 12 gauge cannons feel bad if you shoot well with your 410

On a dare, we spent a morning shooting geese with .410's. Max loads with #2 Bismuth. Stakes in the decoy spread denoting 20 yards distance, expert calling, and the willpower to let them get in really really close before shooting. We found that the .410's killed just fine, and after that incorporated at least one .410 Day into every season just to break the monotony of whacking them with 12's. Mind you, every gunner in our group was/is an accomplished waterfowler not prone to "skybusting", and our venue is my buddy's farm situated smack in the middle of Maryland's best duck/goose country (which is saying a lot) which meant plentiful birds and the opportunity to pick and choose the shots. Moral of the story: the .410 can be an efficient hunting tool, if used within its limitations.

I need to get back on a skeet field with the .410 barrels of my Beretta O/U multi-barrel set.

first deer i ever killed was with a mdl 24 savage and a 410 slug. double lung and just as dead as if i had used a 458 win mag.that started a lifelong affair with the mdl 24.
maybe deer were weaker or the 410 was more powerful in 1958.

Having mentioned it was the tool of my youth, and the H&R Topper is now a lizard killer, there is a tale i between.

Also mentioned that fit is central to success earlier, and my brother and I both had to learn a bit while we were growing. Time passed and the gun was passed to his son who had conveniently already grown a fair bit, being 6'+ in his early teens. We took him quail hunting over a weekend and he hardly missed. Killed near as many quail as the grown ups. His failure at the end of the hunt was espousing that it was too easy and kind of boring.

Kids.....

The price on store bought .410 shells is ridiculous.A friend of mine uses 444 Marlin cartridges and loads his own.He made a tool to crimp the edges of the cartridge over a cardboard end wad he stamps himself with a 444 cartridge with a sharpened edge that he uses as a type of cookie cutter.He uses to plunk squirrels with.

i own around or more dozen 410`s just a fun little shotgun ,i also was born ,raised and still live in the country we have in the past and still do use a 410 to get rid of critters that need to be shot.here`s my collection of 410`s > 22/410 savage made in the 50`s,410 marlin bolt ,2-single shot 410`s,Remington 410 - 870 a new 22/410 Savage , and my favorite critter killer o/u 410 Stevens,Winchester 410 lever, 410 T.C. pistol, 410 derringer,plus i just purchased a couple more cases of 410 ammo too " just in case ?"

Is your O/U Stevens a M240? With tenite stocks? Side by side hammers? Also, what's your experience of shooting the 410 derringer?

Thanks

I use a .410 to shoot pests in and around farm buildings. I'd hesitate to shoot a 12 inside a barn, for instance.

I started my kids on .410s just to get them used to the noise and recoil, and with the understanding they should use one of my large gauge guns when they wanted to do any real wing shooting. They both had no problem graduating to 12s for FFA trap.

Fooling around with a hand trap, I was surprised to find that it was easier than I had anticipated to hit a flying clay bird with a .410.

THE Derringer i just purchased but we plan on doing some testing with it, son fell in luv with this derringer . the Sevens o/u 410 is a newer type and just a great little shotgun and handi.

That's why God gave us MEC.

On the topic of cool vintage 410's, here's a Stevens Model 240. Tenite-stocked (it must be very light to carry) and the double hammers are cool. In my experience, these are rarely encountered:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-model-240--410-o-u.cfm?gun_id=101112032

Anyone have one?

Ah, the 410 Creedmoor.

Well it's sure no .270!

Oops.

Sorry.

Actually I have nothing against the .270. I just lapsed into a moment of group think.

I bought some Brenneke 3" Magnum style.410 slugs because Brenneke slugs have long been advertised as the best option for smooth bore shotguns.

It's what we do!!! LOL

Well, that and the need to scatter shot all over the floor when you get out of sync.

I've owned (and still do) several MEC reloaders…..and the spilling of shot is definitely not the fault of the product.

I've taken several bucks with foster slugs in a smoothbore .410. Savage model 24. There was no doubt about the damage. Last buck was dead inside of 20 yards.

Feels good in the hand. Fun to look at. I prefer a 28 for hunting though.

Which is why I eventually sold all my .410's. The 28-gauge fills the same niche--low-recoiling, lightweight shotguns--with noticeably more versatility, especially at ranges over 25 yards. I hunt upland birds in both thick cover and wide-open country, often in the same day, and the 28 works better, because it patterns more evenly and, on passing shots, the shot doesn't arrive in a long string but a tight swarm.

While many consider the 410 a kids gun, I have learned it is more of a show offs gun.
Which might explain its allure .

I grew up in East Texas. .410's were "squirrel guns" for a lot of "old timers", and .410's shooting slugs were what armed a lot of youngsters on deer stands. The only thing I've ever owned and used that shot .410 ammo was a Contender .45/410.

Mike Holmes

One of the founding principles of teaching a skill, for Kids or adults, is you start with easily accomplished goals and give them the tools to learn and succeed. When it comes to shotguns, a .410 is not the first tool to place in their hands.

I’ll throw targets for you two at 25 yards, and you use the .410 shotguns mentioned. It would be interesting to see exactly what you learned. Now you don’t get to sneak up on them. You don’t get to shoot them sitting in the box.

The fact you can kill a Deer with a .410, has little to do with giving a novice the best tool for success, when you start them on the path of becoming an accomplished Deer hunter.

A .410 is very handy around the farm. I've killed many things over the years with them. Most animals you only need a few pellets to do the trick. #4 is #4 whether it comes from a 12ga or a .410. I've got two .410s and would never part with them, although I'd like to add a nice O/U in 28ga for bird hunting.

Yep, folks are pretty impressed when I use one on an armadillo or skunk out the back door. Sometimes I even open the screen first.
I did start out as a kid with a .410. If I remember right, it was the first gun I ever had. It was also my Dads first gun. My grandparents paid me a bounty on every rabbit I shot out of the garden and every snake around the hen house. Made enough to keep buying shells. As a kid growing up on a farm in a target rich environment, it was safer than a 22 and probably more effective. But, I was pretty much a show off even as a snot nosed kid, so I guess it fit. Spent much of my other shooting with my grandpa's 12ga and a bunch of 16ga slugs. The slugs would fire, but with a lot of gas escaping so the slug was slow enough to see, like a fast BB gun. Have to use a rod to knock out the split shell after each shot. The good ole days of unsupervised kids and guns.

I've a couple or three over the years. Never hunted with any of them, preferring the 20ga for wingshooting and a 22 for wabbits.

Always easy to flip/sell.

A lot of people on here have use for the 410 I see. I have yet to hear anything that wouldn't be handled as well or better by a 28 gauge though.

Most people on here had use....

I bought a cheap yildiz 410 for my 7 year old, cut the stock down and put on a limbsaver. It's a lot of fun, even let him try hitting clays with it. Wish shells were cheaper. Good buddy bought the 28ga ou yildiz from academy, he's put over 2000 rounds through it without a hiccup. He uses it on everything other than ducks.

Never said that a .410 was the best shotgun..... said that I believed that learning to hunt while having to use a .410 me a better hunter.

If you want to wear your arm out throwing targets at 25 yds, that's your business. I'll shoot as long as you'll throw.

I agree that the .410 is not the best tool for successful deer hunting. I can think of a lot of guns that would be better..... what would you suggest you give to a 10 yr old? 1 gun to hunt deer, squirrels, doves, and quail. Kinda puts a different perspective on it, doesn't it? Especially when you have to buy your own shells. I think Dad knew what he was doing..... cheapest shotgun shells, learn to shoot, learn to hunt, one shot, no bang-bang-bang!

As mentioned, disagree on the learning and it making you a better hunter.

It wouldn't take long before the misses would have you quitting.

My perspective doesn't change, in that for a one gun battery I would come up with something other than the .410. Dad started me with and old SxS 12Ga something that reliably worked and a German 98 8mm, that he worked out a stock for. Got two bangs max out of the shotgun and 3 or 4 out of the 98. We didn't sneak up on much other than Squirrels. Rabbits were taken on the run and Pheasants on the fly-who would have thunk, that could be any kind of learning curve - behind a neighbors pack of Beagles. Deer were everywhere at the time and the 98 was an excellent option for sneaking up on them. Although the truth was it wasn't all that hard, because practice was easy, repetitive and frequently successful. All three being basic to learning.

To answer your question: A beater Ithaca 37 16gauge.

I was told along time ago that the 410 was for expert shooters and tend to believe it. My ex BIL was one of the best shooting son of a gun with a shotgun. He'd take his 410 and put many a hunter to shame when we'd go hunting and they'd make fun of his pea shooter!