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What are your thoughts and experiences with the 45/70 for bigger game, like elk, moose, bear, bigger bear at modest ranges ?

I've only killed deer with my 45/70, and of course it worked just fine. But... for bigger, heavier game, what's your choice and why?

Commercial ammo, or handloads, either way.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Love the voice of experience, but also very interested in well-reasoned opinions.

Thanks! Guy

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not a gun writer but do have close to 60 years shooting and loading the wonderful 45/70.
best bullet i have found for Elk/moose/bear is the hornady gummie tip. have 11 elk, 3 moose and 2 bear all one shot and drop. your loads need to be worked up for your rifle.
next bullet i like is the old 405g cast hard. have shot them through both shoulders of an elk. i find myself without a 45/70 for the first time in close to 50 years. my wife says i act like a junkie in withdrawls. if she could only know how i feel eek


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Hard cast, wide metplat, 410 to 440 (or so) grains, pushed to 1600 to 1800 fps. That should work well for most applications! memtb

Last edited by memtb; 10/05/19.

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Not a 300 hp grain pistol bullet.

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Originally Posted by Cascade
What are your thoughts and experiences with the 45/70 for bigger game, like elk, moose, bear, bigger bear at modest ranges ?

I've only killed deer with my 45/70, and of course it worked just fine. But... for bigger, heavier game, what's your choice and why?

Commercial ammo, or handloads, either way.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Love the voice of experience, but also very interested in well-reasoned opinions.

Thanks! Guy


NICE looking set up!


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and the gospel of envy,
its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
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Guy,

My experience, both personal and observed, with the .45-70 is with flat-nose bullets, whether jacketed or cast, of approximately 400 grains at the original black-powder velocity of about 1300 fps. The animals have includes feral pigs of 100-150 pounds up to mature bull bison. All have succumbed quickly to heart-lung shots.


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Deerstalker has sure had very impressive results in his .45-70 with the Hornady, "gummy tip" bullet. I have a box of them (the loaded cartridges) but have yet to try them. What experiences have others had with this bullet in the .45-70?

Personally, I think they look silly and are devoid of the nostalgia factor. A box of Remingtons with the 405 grain soft points has the aesthetic factor in my book. However, performance is not unimportant. Hence my curiosity.

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What MD said.

Unless you're wanting to be sure the gun went off when you jerk the trigger. I like the Lyman 457125 and BP, 30:1 alloy. It leaves a mark, trust me. They say it runs around 500 grains depending on what your source reference is, but with the softer alloy I get about 530 gr. There is load data out there for smokeless that runs comparable pressure and velocity in case you're askeerd of Lord Black.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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PS: The rifle is named "Thumper". Probably weighs a couple or 4 pounds more than yours.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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Dan - very nice looking bullets (and rifle). About what velocity do run them at?

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My buddies in Texas just used the 300gr Factory loads on deer/hogs. My friend up here, who has always used a first run, straight grip 1895 uses nothing but the Hornady 350RN in handloads. He has killed mule deer and elk with it. I liked how the Federal 300 Speer ( they call it a "Plinker", can you imagine?) shot in my 45-70s I have played with.

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Originally Posted by Nostalgiafan
Dan - very nice looking bullets (and rifle). About what velocity do run them at?



Thanks, I kinda like it. laugh

Been using published loads for reference, gleaned from various Lyman load books. I have not run these over the chronograph because of the card wad. The rifle has a 28" barrel which is likely a fair bit longer than the levergun in the OP.

Full charge of Swiss 1.5 FG (~65 gr) with a .030 card wad is ballpark 1125 fps w/12.3 KPSI.
My friend Muffin did this early in the load development process with this load. Bag rest, 100 yards: His 5 shots are centered, I contributed the two high right holes plinking at an adjacent target. This was the day he named it Thumper.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

60 gr of Swiss 1.5 and 6 grains of IMR 4759 w/card wad was the load used for the target in the previous post. ~1,250 fps and 16.5 KPSI

I have loaded some rounds but not tested them yet with IMR4895. 42 gr., Estimated velocity of 1350 fps and 18 KPSI.

Last edited by DigitalDan; 10/06/19.

I am..........disturbed.

Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain


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Dan -

Thanks for the photos and information. I'm a fan of the, "big bullets moving slow" side of the equation. I don't go as far as believing smokeless powder is just a passing fad. I do enjoy the easy clean-up.

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I had a 1886 repro by Browning a few years back.Killed few elk with using 400 gr Speers I think they were. Could have been 405 Remingtons and 3031 powder. Kinda ho-hum . I got tired of lugging a 13 # rifle around. A person needs to pay attention to the three classes of loads for different types of rifles. Not sure,but I imagine anything commercial is downloaded for the least storngsetof the firearms like the old Springfield Trapdoor

Last edited by saddlesore; 10/06/19.

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I started using a .45-70 to kill deer around 20 - 25 years ago. I started and stayed with the 400 grain Speer flat nose. I guess I've used some of the 405 grain Remington bullets as well. I started with Varget and it seemed the more I used the more accurate my Guide Gun was. I stopped at a load that was about all I wanted of a good thing. While it's no real fun to shoot, it will put three of those 400 grain Speers in about 1 1/4" and I can kill a deer easily out to about 200 yards. It seemed that the hot rod loads would sometimes make the Speers come apart in the early years. I think they hardened them up a bit though, with hot loads in mind and they seem not to act so much like varmint bullets now as speeds approach 2000 fps.I wouldn't hesitate to use that set up on anything in NA.

If I still had the time and facilities to play with stuff like I used to, I'd get about a 400 grain mold and go cast, albeit with smokeless powder.

I am a big believer in using "normal" for caliber bullet weights, seldom going much above or below the accepted norm. I personally have never had any interest in 300 or 350 grain bullets in the .45-70, but for those who do, more power to you.


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My 2 cents worth.
I now have a Browning BLR, 450 Marlin having traded off the Marlin 45/70 for it. Same downrange results except I prefer a clip to the tube magazine.
The Speer 350's work as well as anything I have tried.
Scout scoped the recoil is sufferable and is decently accurate
It is my truck and saddle rifle, sure beats most anything I have tried. The Marlin has such a thick forearm, to thick for a under my leg saddle scabbard, butt back & off side. Bugged me.
The 45/70 is an interesting chambering, tons of history and good for campfire chatter. Every serious shooter should give it a go. Good luck

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1st - I am NOT a gunwriter.

2nd - I don't have a 45/70 anymore.

3rd - I never used mine to take an animal.

Having said that, here is what I did.

I cast my own, paper-patched bullet, 500grns worth, and used Reloader 7, off the top of my head about 33 grns worth...

Rifle was a Marlin Cowboy gun, 26" Bbl

Normal/everyday velocities were running about 1250-1300fps highest I ever got was 1600fps, recoil was stout...

These were shot into damp sand, at the lower velocities, top one 450grn bottom 500....

I'm pretty sure that these would work on just about anything short of stuff that will eat you, lots of buffalo were killed with about the same weight and velocity, probably with a little harder alloy.... as to whether it would work on dangerous stuff..... ask a gunwriter!

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

PS: If Dan had told me that my target was going to be published I would have tightened that group up a little.......

PSS: Dan has nice guns!


Last edited by muffin; 10/06/19.

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Believe me, there is no need to hop up a 45-70. Factory ammo (like 405 grain Gov slugs) traveling at about 1,230 fps will end to end anything in North America. They're also pleasant to shoot. I decided to hot rod mine, and am looking for someone to shoot up the remaining 85 rounds I loaded up.


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Originally Posted by 1minute
Believe me, there is no need to hop up a 45-70. Factory ammo (like 405 grain Gov slugs) traveling at about 1,230 fps will end to end anything in North America. They're also pleasant to shoot. I decided to hot rod mine, and am looking for someone to shoot up the remaining 85 rounds I loaded up.


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I have been packing a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 since about 1990, but I have never shot a critter with it. Just packed it in the off season when not hunting because it carries so easy and delivers a powerful pay load. It has spent many an hour on hikes, ATV rides, salmon streams in the wall tent by my cot for what ever nights in griz country brings, etc. The seven round peep sighted rifle is a down right comforting piece of artillery that has a reputation for putting big critters on the ground with a cast bullet at about 1,300 fps mv. I am sure it still works.

Are heavy cast bullets the best choice for moose, elk, and big bears? Ya got me and I will never shoot enough big stuff with it to prove one way or another. But it has been proven to be plenty sufficient. But how much penetration do we need? Just enough right? Long ago hunters showed what a good tough jacketed bullet could do and acceptable calibers have been getting smaller for awhile.

I have shot quit a few 350 grain Hornady's and carried them for a few years and a friend of mine took a few moose with the 405 grain Speer. But, a long time ago I switched to the heavy jacketed 405 grain Super Bonded bullet from Alaska bullet works and seated them in WW brass over a case full of H322. I still have about 80 of them left and will load up the same style of bullet in 350 grain version in new Starline brass when they are gone. I believe it will cover any thing I would need a 45-70 for.

I wanted to try the 350 grain FP Barnes X, but Barnes will only sell them to Buffalo Bore, Rude!

I always read good things about the discontinued 300 grain Nosler 45-70 bullet. In truth, I think about any 350 grain bullet would do for bison, moose, elk, bear.

Me and my 71 year old wife don't quite get the access to moose and caribou that we did in younger years. Our moose this year could of been taken with the 45-70 had I brought it that morning. I have also noticed that even though our moose are not getting any bigger they get heavier each year, old age. I have confidence that I can make any reasonable shot to close to 500 or so yards with my scope sighted .338 and don't have the same confidence in my shooting at over 150 yards with my 45-70.

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