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Most of the time, Remington trigger malfunctions as a result of gunk getting inside will manifest itself with the trigger sear and firing pin failing to cock in the first place, so the cocking piece will just ride the cocking cam down to fired position as the bolt handle is lowered. In order for the rifle to fire when the safety is released, something has to initially hold the sear up into reset position for the firing pin to be cocked after the bolt is closed. If gunk is inhibiting trigger lever/connector movement such that it fails to pivot back into position under the sear when the bolt handle is raised, it simply won't remain cocked when the bolt is closed. This could cause an AD as well if the bolt is worked vigorously enough.

Greydog's explanation of the trigger being pulled while the safety is engaged and the safety failing to raise the sear to allow the trigger lever/connector or lever only to return to reset condition would certainly be one cause of a rifle firing when safety is released. As GD said, this would be a faulty trigger from the get-go; in a properly functioning trigger, the safety should always hold the sear up with sufficient clearance to allow the trigger to reset itself in the event the trigger is pulled while the safety is engaged.

However, GD's scenario isn't the only condition that can cause a 700 to fire when the safety is disengaged. I've seen 700 triggers that eventually developed the fire on safety disengagement issue that left the factory dimensionally correct and were initially functioning perfectly. There are a couple of conditions that can cause this to happen even if the safety properly holds the sear up in clearance position to allow trigger reset.

One cause: as GD mentioned, the trigger is pulled while the safety is engaged, and even though the safety is properly holding the sear in raised position to allow the trigger lever to return to reset position, the aforementioned gunk that worked its way down into the housing prevents the trigger from pivoting back into reset position. Then, the safety has now become the "trigger," and when released...bang.

ANOTHER scenario where this can occur:
1. Rifle sits dormant and uncocked for a period of time. Being uncocked, the trigger lever is thus in forward (uncocked) position for an extended time.
2. Gunk has managed to work its way into the trigger or previous oils inside become gummy and varnish up over time, locking the trigger in uncocked position.
3. On next use of the rifle, the safety is engaged immediately after the bolt handle is raised or engaged at some point prior to the bolt being returned to battery and closed. The sear still raises up properly when the cocking piece is held back by the cocking cam, and the safety holds it in that position before bolt closure. The safety is now holding the sear cocked and not the trigger lever, which never reset in the first place and again, the safety has now become the "trigger."

Every design involves making a series of conscious tradeoffs. The 700 trigger was designed as a self-contained unit to make it easier and more economical to assemble and still have a nice, adjustable trigger pull. By having the trigger assembly as a self-contained, enclosed unit, it was easier to precisely control the geometric relationships of the sear engagement surfaces, providing a nice crisp trigger without the need for individually hand-fitting the parts and yet installation of trigger assembly to receiver involves only driving in 2 pins. The downside is that any fully enclosed mechanism is naturally more susceptible to getting debris or gummy oil films trapped inside. This isn't necessarily a "design flaw" per se; enclosed triggers are just less tolerant of contamination, and this applies to not only the Remington trigger, but many other enclosed triggers as well.


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All that said, I completely agree that Remington has screwed the pooch numerous times, both at the design and quality control stages.


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Originally Posted by RifleDude

more economical

READ: Cheap. Same goes for not having the safety lock the bolt, sheet metal extractor and bolt handle manufacture.


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Don't disagree overall jorge, but I personally like the 2-pin install, self-contained trigger concept. Despite the obvious cost benefits to Remington, there are real advantages to rifle loons like me. Because of the popularity of the 700 and resultant aftermarket parts availability for it, a lot of Rem footprint custom actions are available that use the 700 trigger mount design, and likewise there are a ton of really nice aftermarket triggers that drop right in. The huge selection of great aftermarket triggers wouldn't exist if manufacturers were more tightly constrained on mounting design. There are plenty of things I despise about Remington, but the self contained, 2 pin trigger assy ain't one of them. Good design ideas and cost saving measures aren't always mutually exclusive to each other.


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Remington should have either listened to the trigger's designer about their modification and safety issues or chosen a new trigger. Any way you look at it, the 700 might make for a good platform to sink money into, especially if you are into paper punching, but for all the issues I've listed, I consider it a substandard rifle. I own ONE and won't own another...


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My scenario is the scenario which existed in every single one of the Remington 700 triggers which I replaced under warranty. Now, in some of these, the trigger may well have been functioning when the rifle left the factory and ceased to function properly due to wear or damage but the safety did not work properly when they came into the shop. This was probly due to wear of the parts which, in turn, may have been due to soft materials or flawed geometry. To put things in perspective, this amounted to probably a couple dozen triggers over roughly fifteen years (1978 to 1993) where I was doing Remington warranty work. During this period, I worked on many hundreds, if not thousands, of Remington 700's, 600's, 660's, and 40X's. I hasten to add, these were not all warranty jobs. Warranty repairs on these models were actually quite rare given the numbers sold. Early 700's had very few extractor failures and I saw, possibly, a half dozen bolt handles which came off. All but one of these were broken off when the owner used an assist to open the bolt and the missing handle was the least of their problems.
In only one rifle was the sear connector the cause of the problem and, on this particular trigger, the sear connector broke at the hole through which the over-travel screw went. I would not be surprised to learn that other triggers suffered this same malfunction since that hole weakened the connector and might have contributed to heat treat problems at that point. Nonetheless, this was the only trigger with this particular flaw which came into my shop.
I saw many examples of triggers which would not reset because the weight of pull screw was backed out too far. In these cases, the sear connector did not reset but neither did the trigger piece since you can't have one without the other.
It has, quite frankly, never occurred to me that someone would engage the safety before the bolt was in battery. If the trigger is one in which the safety locks the bolt shut, the safety cannot be engaged with the bolt open so this might be an example where, in an attempt to make unloading the rifle safer, the engineers introduced another potentially unsafe situation.
While much has been made of the potential for problems with Remington trigger, with their evil sear connector, I continue to repair triggers on other makes with precisely the same issue; the rifle fires when the safety is disengaged. This has occurred on Winchester Model 70's, Sakos, Shulz& Larsen, Weatherby, Colt Sauer, Browning, and a host of others. For some reason, all of these other companies have gotten a pass while Remington is villified. I think this is primarily due to propaganda put out by people like Jack Belk whose reasons are not altruistic. GD

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Have you done a search here for accidental misfires on (fill in the blank rifle) while the safety is disengaged? (there aren't any) and it still does not alter the fact of all the other aforementioned maladies of the 700..


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I degrease the trigger mechanism and then store it in the safe muzzle down to let gravity do what it does best. I have owned a 700 Classic in 35 Whelen since it became a factory cartridge in 1989 iIrc.
Pete Jackson a Remington gunsmith told me that it is best to use 3.5-4.5 lbs as a safe minimum weight.
Mine has never given a problem.
whelenut


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Loan it to Pedophiler the PaDDiler.......or Gooseschitt...

When they go out hunting, maybe only one will come back and the other will spend the rest of their worthless existence
and the State Bed and Breakfast for Convicts...


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i enjoy these threads on the 700. given i have been using them since the 70's, have four or five or more of them, and have never had a problem. Never use the safety either, as i don't carry them hot with a round in the chamber.
I only put a round in the chamber when i am ready to shoot something.
Having said that, i think i am going to get a can of spray brake cleaner, and give all of them a squirt.


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Another contributing issue is that many 700 owners think that if a little oil is good then a lot more is better. A light coating of oil is plenty and more just runs down into the trigger and causes gummed up triggers. I feel the safety on the bolt like the Model 70 Winchester is a better design. Remington could easily make the same kind of safety for the 700 and remove the safety from the trigger with almost no design effort but don’t. I’ve got one M700 and when I replace the barrel I’ll be trueing the action and will add the three position bolt safety then.


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