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looking for new bow. #14190760 10/09/19
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ihookem Offline OP
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Here is my problem, like many archers here, I can't pull back my bow very well anymore. I have a Mission Endeavor set at 47 lbs . I can pull it back but the first few practice shots are quite stiff and hurts my rotators to pull back 47 lbs when it is warm outside. When it is cold outside it gets even worse . Last year I could not pull my bow back on a nice buck and had to let it walk. I pulled my rotator cuff real bad trying to shoot the deer. I got to figuring , if I buy a Mathews Triax , I could likely get the same arrow speed at 38 lbs pull with this bow . Does that sound right? The Endeavor is rated at 316 FPS. arrow speed. and the Triax 343. I read that you can rude the pull 1 pound and reduce arrow speed by 2fps. This means I could reduce a Triaxs pull 13 lbs , down to 34 pounds pull and get the same arrow speed. Does this sound right . and is this Triax really that efficient , and now bows that much better ? I just have to ask.


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
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Re: looking for new bow. [Re: ihookem] #14191134 10/09/19
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All things being equal it could very well be.


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Re: looking for new bow. [Re: ihookem] #14191505 10/10/19
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tzone Offline
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Time for a cross-bow.


It ain't my fault.
Re: looking for new bow. [Re: tzone] #14191626 10/10/19
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Originally Posted by tzone
Time for a cross-bow.



Probably a better investment, IMHO, if you are not able to recover the shoulder strength.

My first thought - lower your current bow to 40 pounds, and dial it in, add weight to the arrow if you are worried about penetration at the lower poundage.

By the time you buy the Triax, and get the correct spined arrow for the lower poundage, and test all over a chronograph - it's going to cost a bit for that much equipment change.

Yeah, the new bows are more "efficient" aka faster, but keep in mind that the IBO speed is based off of an industry standard arrow, typically around 300 grains, and most hunting set-ups are typically pushing at - or over - 400 grains of arrow weight.

So, your actual bow speed with a hunting arrow is most likely going to be closer to 305-320 - or less - with the Triax.

I think you're going to see very little return for the investment - does WI have a minimum poundage for bow hunting?

Last edited by AH64guy; 10/10/19.
Re: looking for new bow. [Re: ihookem] #14193015 10/10/19
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ihookem Offline OP
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Yes , Wisconsin has a 30 lbs minimum. I thought about a crossbow and figured if I buy this Triax , it will sure be my last compound.


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
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Re: looking for new bow. [Re: AH64guy] #14193728 10/11/19
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Originally Posted by AH64guy
Originally Posted by tzone
Time for a cross-bow.



Probably a better investment, IMHO, if you are not able to recover the shoulder strength.

My first thought - lower your current bow to 40 pounds, and dial it in, add weight to the arrow if you are worried about penetration at the lower poundage.

By the time you buy the Triax, and get the correct spined arrow for the lower poundage, and test all over a chronograph - it's going to cost a bit for that much equipment change.

Yeah, the new bows are more "efficient" aka faster, but keep in mind that the IBO speed is based off of an industry standard arrow, typically around 300 grains, and most hunting set-ups are typically pushing at - or over - 400 grains of arrow weight.

So, your actual bow speed with a hunting arrow is most likely going to be closer to 305-320 - or less - with the Triax.

I think you're going to see very little return for the investment - does WI have a minimum poundage for bow hunting?


Agree buying a new bow for what little you will actually see out of it is not a great investment.


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Re: looking for new bow. [Re: ihookem] #14194589 10/11/19
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If he wants to try bowhunting one more year, before going X bow........how much is that worth?

It's not just an investment in gear.

It's about living.

And the price to do what he wants, is totally up to him.

IMHO bows depreciate bad enough, no bow is an investment.
Some are better than others at holding value.

Paid 980 for my Blackwidow new, shot it a ton, won some shoots, killed deer and when injury forced sale (had to go back to compound for a bit).........sold it for 600.
Quiver and arrows too.

So it "cost" me about $100 a yr to shoot a custom built bow................man that was a friggin' BARGAIN!

Re: looking for new bow. [Re: hookeye] #14194692 10/11/19
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Originally Posted by hookeye
If he wants to try bowhunting one more year, before going X bow........how much is that worth?

It's not just an investment in gear.

It's about living.

And the price to do what he wants, is totally up to him.

IMHO bows depreciate bad enough, no bow is an investment.
Some are better than others at holding value.

Paid 980 for my Blackwidow new, shot it a ton, won some shoots, killed deer and when injury forced sale (had to go back to compound for a bit).........sold it for 600.
Quiver and arrows too.

So it "cost" me about $100 a yr to shoot a custom built bow................man that was a friggin' BARGAIN!



Good points. Kinda how I've ended up with a bunch of rifles, a couple pretty nice, when a RAR would get 'er done. My only advice would be to actually try one set up as he describes and compare it to his current one dialed down. Might not be much difference, and he could use the money saved for something else nice he would enjoy.


What fresh Hell is this?

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Re: looking for new bow. [Re: hookeye] #14194888 10/11/19
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Originally Posted by hookeye
If he wants to try bowhunting one more year, before going X bow........how much is that worth?

It's not just an investment in gear.

It's about living.

And the price to do what he wants, is totally up to him.

IMHO bows depreciate bad enough, no bow is an investment.
Some are better than others at holding value.

Paid 980 for my Blackwidow new, shot it a ton, won some shoots, killed deer and when injury forced sale (had to go back to compound for a bit).........sold it for 600.
Quiver and arrows too.

So it "cost" me about $100 a yr to shoot a custom built bow................man that was a friggin' BARGAIN!



I'll play along! You are right it is about living. You are also right it's totally up to him. And again you are right bows are a horrible investment.

Now back to reality!!!!!
When I say an investment, it is in the terms of gear not financle gain. Similar but different.
It is about living as it should be. But living can and will happen with the bow he has just fine.
And last it is all up to him, however he is seeking advice here. So some good people with solid knowledge have given him their take on it. Which clearly the OP was seeking or he wouldn't have made the post. Now you have made good points too.


Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
Re: looking for new bow. [Re: ihookem] #14195495 10/11/19
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I know guys that had to go xbow and wish they coulda tried one more year for a big one w reg bow.

Dont know how much that would be worth.

Im trying for a P&Y w recurve while I still can and its a battle. May never happen.

Body falling apart....have a year or few left tops.

So i can sympathize w the OP

Bravo

Re: looking for new bow. [Re: ihookem] #14195502 10/11/19
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Looked at Mission and Ravin x bows.....$$$$$.
When recurve is no more, might squeak a yr or so w compound. But even then itll be short lived. Surgery will proly kill all vertical bow usage

Re: looking for new bow. [Re: ihookem] #14202651 10/14/19
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ihookem Offline OP
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I decided to turn my bow down one turn, what a difference that made. I went from shooting 47 lbs to 42 lbs . At 23 yds it shoots about 5" lower, but dont really notice the difference in speed of the arrow. I might just go get a Mathews yet but want one more deer with my Mission Endeavor. The bow was $330 bucks 7 yrs ago and a good bow but only 3 deer with it so far. I will likely get a Mathews Triax after this season.


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
Re: looking for new bow. [Re: ihookem] #14204311 10/15/19
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Buddy has shoulder issues. Healed up enough to drag out the Triax. Said it was comfy ( was worried it wouldnt be )

Re: looking for new bow. [Re: ihookem] #14204935 10/15/19
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ihookem Offline OP
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Thanks Hookeye, Glad to hear it is a good bow for bad shoulders.


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
Re: looking for new bow. [Re: ihookem] #14205698 10/16/19
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Noticeable difference in the penetration of your arrow into your target from 47 to 42 pounds? Arrows need to get in there to work!


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Re: looking for new bow. [Re: ihookem] #14209872 10/17/19
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ihookem Offline OP
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I noticed that the arrows go into the foam target a little less, like 4" or so.


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
Re: looking for new bow. [Re: ihookem] #14219542 10/21/19
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Just a little update on my potential bow purchase . I went to the bow shop, I find out my bow is 59lbs draw to my surprise . My fish scale says 45lbs but no matter. the owner had a Mathews Triax and he set it up for 55lbs and 25" draw length for me. Nice of him to change his personal bow up for me to try out. So, his Triax, my same arrows and the Triax set at 55 lbs. shot the arrows at 236 fps. I shoot my bow, it was at 60 lbs, @ 24 1/2" draw. To my surprise it shoots the same arrows at 230 fps. SO, with the Triax with 5 lbs less draw weight an extra 1/2" of draw for a little help it only managed to shoot the arrow 6 fps. faster. I was amazed and he seemed perplexed there was so little difference. I was all but ready to buy a Triax till I shot it. Noticing right away , I didn't notice any difference in arrow speed. The Triax is surely a smoother , better feeling bow with a dead backstop and that could help accuracy but for that little difference I will not be buying the top of the line Mathews Triax. I watched many Youtube vids about how amazing the new Triax is. Brother in law went from a Mathews Creed to a Triax and says it was night and day . I wonder out loud if this is all a bunch of hype. Also, I went to another Mathews dealer closer to home. The owner there said I would be unhappy with a Triax cause many loose so much arrow speed when they go to a short dew length but the Mathews Avail keeps most of the arrow speed cause it is already set up for shorter draw lengths . Has anyone ever hear of this ? I checked into the arrow drop difference of 5 fps at 30 yds and shooting my old bow will drop my arrow 30" and the Triax would drop in 29" so I am only loosing 1" trajectory on a 30 yd. shot. I dont think many people know this stuff and bow dealers dont care to tell them.

Last edited by ihookem; 10/21/19.

But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
Re: looking for new bow. [Re: ihookem] #14300204 11/21/19
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Well everyone , I bought a new Mathews Avail. I compared it to my 8 yr old Mission Endeavor. I still like my Mission but the Mathews is a superior bow. With my arrows @ 54 lbs draw with my Mission I get 231 FPS. With my Mathews @ 52 lbs I get 251 fps. I gained 20fps with 2 lbs less draw weight. I am happy I got better performance . I am not sur sit was worth $1,008 . I did trade in an old bow noone else wanted and got $100 for it. I also badly needed a $150 string for my Mission Endeavor, however. I shoot my new bow more accurately , it is a better fit and quieter too. It is a nice bow. I am glad I did not get the Mathews Triax. With my draw length @ 54 lbs I was only getting 236 fps with the Triax. The reason is my draw is only 24.5" and the Triax draw has to be set down so much further cause the cams are so big and I was told that is why the Avail is better for shorter draw lengths.
I still might get a crossbow for when it really gets cold.


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
Re: looking for new bow. [Re: ihookem] #14307300 11/24/19
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Cam rotation has a lot to do with the results you are seeing. A cam that tops out at a shorter draw achieves full rotation vs one that tops out at 30 or 31". That's why your avail is more efficient.


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Re: looking for new bow. [Re: ihookem] #14320821 11/28/19
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Thanks 280Ackley. One of the Mathews dealers didn't know that or didnt say. The dealer I went to explained that to me so I went with him but was not my regular bow shop.


But the fruits of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, Gentleness and self control. Against such things there is no law. Galations 5: 22&23
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