Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Realistic accuracy expectations

Talley LW’s too... Oh the horror!








P.S. I have a Leupold on my muzzle loader.

I, and others have tried to explain 10 round groups multiple times. If you really want to know why 10+ round groups are important for any rifle where accuracy matters-


Can you accept as a starting point that it has nothing to do with how many shots you fire at an animal?

Living dangerously. I have talley lwts on my primary hunting rifle. Need to get some dye for some periodic ndt testing. Once every 2 months? (grin)

Well said form. A lot of these jackwagons dont get it. It doesn't matter how many times you explain it to them. A good rule of thumb i like to use for any rifle regarding number of shots fired goes like this:

3 shot groups: sub moa
5 shot groups moa
10 shot groups: 1.5 moa

However, the more shots on target will tell you more about the rifle, shooter, load and true zero.

Johnny,

As you mention, nothing says the shots have to be fired as quick as you can accurately get them out of the barrel. In the interest of babying the throat on my rigs, I typically fire three or five rounds at the same POA until I have ten shots. I let the barrel cool after each 3 or five rounds. The end result is ten rounds at the same POA, which is a much better statistical indicator of how well the rifle does than a three shot group.

That being said, as far as group size goes, I’ve not found it to vary significantly whether I let the barrel cool or not, provided I’ve got a mechanically sound rig to begin with.

Give it a try. It’s a real eye opener.

John

I agree with you John, and I agree with Formid as well. It's not an ego or bragging thing, but the number of medium/big game animals I've killed over the past 46 years is a few hundred, and I've never fired a 10 shot string at one sitting in my life. This is likely the source of my hard headedness I guess. I've missed a few animals like everyone else, but don't make a habit of it and certainly couldn't blame the rifle. For the record, when proving up a load worthy of taking it to the field, I do fire a few 5 shot groups at 2-300 yards, letting barrel cool in between. I guess I can chalk it up to good rifles, good mounts, and scopes that don't wiggle much. If I were a precision long range guy I'd probably feel a little different, and I don't like super lightweights or skinny barrels either, for my use. I also believe shooter error, reloading error, factory ammo error, wind (even at 100 yds) etc can factor in to variations in larger gruops as well.

The primary reason so many big game hunters don't care about 10-shot groups (or even 5-shot groups) is that by definition big game animals are relatively large targets. Even a pronghorn (one of the smaller big game animals in North America) has a vital area the size of a volleyball--about eight inches in diameter. Three-shot groups of even 1.5 inches at 100 yards are plenty small enough for hitting a volleyball at 300 yards, which is about as far as most hunters have any business shooting at pronghorns.

At longer ranges more precision can be required, depending on the size of the animal. But I normally shoot 10-shot groups when testing varmint rifles, especially those used on small burrowing rodents--and then I do shoot 10 rounds as fast as the rifle can be precisely aimed, because barrels can get warm on prairie dog towns, even if we bring two or more rifles to swap them out. I want to know if the barrel will wander as it warms up--and as a general rule want 10 rounds under an inch, and the more under an inch the better. Even a big prairie dog is a pretty small target, especially when you often don't get to shoot at the entire dog.

If your rifle doesn't put them ALL into an inch at 100, you're going to miss some PD's at 200 yards due to the rifle, not the wind or your hold. If you want to hit them consistently at 300, the rifle needs to put them ALL into less than 3/4" at 100. If you want to hit consistently beyond 300, even more accuracy is required--unless, of course, you're one of those PD shooters who only counts the hits, and doesn't care whether they expend several shots (or several dozen) to accidentally hit one at longer ranges.

Believe it or not, there are quite a few PD shooters like that, including a good friend of mine--who has no idea of the level of accuracy of his rifles, since he doesn't believe in shooting groups. I strongly suspect he thinks group-shooting wastes barrel life--but shooting several rounds at a prairie dog doesn't--as long as he eventually hits the dog.

From another conversation:

10-4 on the varmint rifles JB. Makes perfect sense.

Some great shooting there Jackmountain!

A good trick I've seen, but not done as yet, is to shoot a 3-shot group, put another target precisely over the first, then shoot another. Rinse, repeat, until you're satisfied. The bottom one tells the truth.

The top target when you get done is for your wallet (or maybe not!).

Straight out of the Social Media Sniper’s Handbook.

Great shooting rifle, not necessarily the shooter!
That rifle started as a nightmare. 4" groups, light firing pin strikes, FTF's, ejection issues, feeding issues....
Worked through everything with the help of a LOT of knowledgeable guys on this forum, except the accuracy.
Kimber took it, sent it back with a 3 shot 1 1/2" group shot with 40gr nosler's and said nothing wrong with it. Spent a year at a 'smith that I won't get into...
But in the end I couldn't be happier with it and It'll never be sold.

Chapter two is "it shoots in the .2's regularly, as long as I do my part"

My original question was based on groups I shot this weekend with the 7-08AI in the picture. It's been a little more finicky... definitely prefers free recoil. Groups of 10 @ 1" best to maybe 1 1/2" at worst. Hunting rifle, so plenty good, but wondered if I was settling too easy and should be demanding more from it. Really thinking about full length bedding it just to see.

10 shots in 1.5” is a pretty good goal for a hunting rifle in my opinion.

My main rifles will do that, when they don’t it’s on me and not them.

Personally, for a lightweight like that, I don’t think I’d be chasing any more accuracy if it consistently puts them 1”-1.5”.

I always ask myself, would I see or benefit from any more accuracy from a field position?

I’ve begun 20 shoot groups. Cuz I’z better than you stupid fûckers.

😂😂😂🤣🤣😂😂😂 maa put a really nice shootn rust in the middle of the coffee table for me so I can rest whileS me’s shootn. (Little Popeye at the end).

Jack good shooting!

No Hawaiian shirts were harmed during that range session Fred

I love that shirt. It’s going deer hunting in November.