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If you load, I’d think some x39 loads could be more emphatic under 100 than the Grendel, if that’s a consideration....but any of those at the ranges you seem to anticipate, are more than adequate. I’d say whichever one he likes shooting and shoots the best, and proceed accordingly. JMO

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I'd narrow it down to 6.5G and .223. Of the deer we've killed with those, the 6.5G gives performance nearer to conventional deer cartridges. The .223 kills them fine though. If all I had was a .223 I wouldn't be bothered by it.

When I say "we" I mean our kids of about the same age and size. The point I push is not shooting the centerfire at targets. Use the CZ Scout 22lr for that. Switch over to the 527 on deer. That's what we do with ARs.

The 6.5G in a 20" happens to have noticeably less muzzle blast than the 16" .223, btw.

If you load, 100gr NBT looks good. I have not tried it because I try real hard not to take up loading any more cartridges than I already do.


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OK I do reload and am probably fully set up for reloading any of these cartridges. Lighter Hunting bullets in some cases may need to be acquired. Honestly I feel I would be doing well with any of these with a barnes ttsx bullet. Major reason I favor the barnes is generally the bullet weight for a good hunting bullet tends to be fairly light and in turn yielding a little less recoil. With the 223 I will favor a nosier partition or a Barnes TTSX.

As for practice rifle will likely be primarily a CZ 452 in 17HM2. I likely have a lifetimes supply of ammo for both him and I for the HM2. not so much with the 22 rimfire. we can work in a 22 rimfire as well though.


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Do not discount the 300 blackout for kids. Under 100 yards with the 125nbt they are plenty enough for deer. Plus no recoil

My hunting buddies daughter uses one with barnes 110 tac and has shot 3 deer. All three DRT

Mine practices with subs suppressed or a 22lr. Then switches over. If you already have one I wouldn’t discount using it

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Originally Posted by kevinJ
Do not discount the 300 blackout for kids. Under 100 yards with the 125nbt they are plenty enough for deer. Plus no recoil

My hunting buddies daughter uses one with barnes 110 tac and has shot 3 deer. All three DRT

Mine practices with subs suppressed or a 22lr. Then switches over. If you already have one I wouldn’t discount using it


OK with the 300 BLK in mind a few concerns.

1st the short barrel scares me from the standpoint it just seems to easy for anyone let alone a youth to place a finger over the barrel & pull the trigger shocked
2nd with this short barrel I sure would like to use a moderator for 2 purposes, quieter of coarse & the longer length should go a long way to reduce the chance of #1 What would it take to make it legal for a youth to use a moderator in this country? ATF in all their wisdom makes it illegal for a youth to protect their hearing with a moderator under any circumstances if I understand things right. Grr May a youth use a silencer to hunt with the owners supervision? If not what do we need to do to afford them this hearing protection measure?

One of the main reasons I like the Grendel over the Blackout is the longer barrel goes a long way towards making the report quieter for the shooter. That short barrel sure does bark un-nessisarly without a IMHO

Last edited by Hunterapp; 10/14/19.

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Unless you’re talking under 12”, that 300 will have far less blast than a 20” Grendel, IME. maybe I missed where the 300 is a pistol? A 300 burns all its powder from most loads in under 10” or so, and case volume to bore, its very quiet at even supersonic, unsupressed.... at least compared to even 223, much less a Grendel.

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Originally Posted by hh4whiskey
Unless you’re talking under 12”, that 300 will have far less blast than a 20” Grendel, IME. maybe I missed where the 300 is a pistol? A 300 burns all its powder from most loads in under 10” or so, and case volume to bore, its very quiet at even supersonic, unsupressed.... at least compared to even 223, much less a Grendel.

i think hes more worried about a shorter barrel being more point-able in any direction by a kid, not muzzle blast. safety concern. counterpoint is that a shorter barrel is easier to handle, especially for a smaller person, i.e. a kid.


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Actually seems like he’s worried about them getting a hand in front of the muzzle....which is a stretch for o grown man on most 16” repeaters. Anyhoo, I’m not tracking on this concern, at all.

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Quote

2nd with this short barrel I sure would like to use a moderator for 2 purposes, quieter of coarse & the longer length should go a long way to reduce the chance of #1 What would it take to make it legal for a youth to use a moderator in this country?


You being with them as the owner if the Suppressor.

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When I recommended the 300blk I wasn’t necessarily recommending a SBR. Although it would be handy in the treestand.

Mine is a model 7 in 300blk with a 16” barrel. With the suppressor on it there is no recoil, and the noise from supersonic loads won’t ring your ears. I just switch the stock back and forth between a youth stock and the factory kuiu stock as needed.

Subsonic are crazy quiet, and the kids can practice very comfortably with them

For anyone to use your suppressor You just have to be present with them, and they need to be legal to own or posses a firearm. For kids that means under adult supervision.

Last edited by kevinJ; 10/15/19.
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Things have really changed, back in the day we were happy to have ANY gun to go hunting.


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Originally Posted by kevinJ
When I recommended the 300blk I wasn’t necessarily recommending a SBR. Although it would be handy in the treestand.

Mine is a model 7 in 300blk with a 16” barrel. With the suppressor on it there is no recoil, and the noise from supersonic loads won’t ring your ears. I just switch the stock back and forth between a youth stock and the factory kuiu stock as needed.

Subsonic are crazy quiet, and the kids can practice very comfortably with them

For anyone to use your suppressor You just have to be present with them, and they need to be legal to own or posses a firearm. For kids that means under adult supervision.



Well I have not applied for a tax stamp yet So I do not have a suppressor, That being said it looks like the Grendel and the 300 blk are very comparable in terms of recoil all else being equal. If I had a suppressor the 300 BLK would defiantly be the go to gun. As things stand for this season I am leaning to the Grendel with 100 gr TSX at 3700FPS or so.


Yea I would have been glad to shoot any of these when I was his age. though I had to wait another 3 years as we could not hunt deer until we were 12. Model 760 6MM Rem is what I started off with. And I was Glad to have it. Worked like a champ IMHO. Still i prefer a bolt action and have become very fond of the CZ 527 to be sure.



Last edited by Hunterapp; 10/15/19.

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If he’s 9 you definitely want a low recoiling round, otherwise he may never want to go again or learn to flinch.

I suggest a 243, 257 Roberts, 250 Savage or factory low recoil rounds in a 25-06 or 270.

AR-15 platform Grendel will work, 6.8 SPC too

Good luck and happy hunting


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That 6.5/1002700 will be far louder and have more blast, than a 308/1252300....suppressed or not, 20” vs 16”, too. That’s why my wife’s AR is a 300 BLK (unsupressed) 16”. The recoil is a non-issue for her, but she hated the muzzle blast from even my 20” 223; 6.5, and 6.8 ARs. She’s only 5’ in heels.

Last edited by hh4whiskey; 10/15/19.
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Just ask him which one he likes to shoot most.
There's no need to overthink everything.
I bet he already knows the answer.


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I definitely wouldn't buy a .223 for deer hunting. You can kill a deer with a 76 Ford pickup also, but I wouldn't buy one of them for hunting deer either. There are just better choices IMHO.

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Purchased the 223 for varmint hunting and later realized they're are some bullets that will allow the 223 to be an acceptable deer rifle in the right hands. My 9 year old son probably won't fall in the class of the right hands as I am seeing things now. On the other hand I see the 7.62 x 39, 6.5 G and the 300 BLK as very adiquit in a competent hunters hands. I feel under a mentored situation we can meet this bar quite readily.


As for hh4whiskey statement on the 308 cal 125 GR Partition @2300, I suppose we could load a 6.5 cal 125 GR partition for the 6.5 G to the same effect. This I am taking into consideration as well.

With proper hearing protection I expect either the 100 gr TSX @ 2700 or a 125 gr Partition @2300 from a 24 " barrel; - Amount to a horse a piece from the sensitive shooters prospective. We may give both a go in the real world to see how this plays out. Either should do a fine job on game.


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It’s different burn rate powders and pressure curves for the 6.5 vs the 300.

The 300 was BUILT for short barrels, fast powder burn, etc. Its bore to case ratio is vastly different from the 6.5. Even IF you use a 20” barrel and have equal velocity/bullet weight, the Grendel is most likely louder and has more muzzle blast. Now, you could cook up some short barrel loads for the Grendel, to mitigate, but you’d likely give up performance, due to bore/case physics. Bore to case ratio is a big deal for blast/noise under 20”, IME. My 357 max will run 180s to well past 2400 in 16”, with less noise (and often FELT recoil) than my 6.5/6.8 ARs, and even my 5.56 versions ....at least for noise.

Just put muffs on them and roll, but don’t think the Grendel is somehow ‘softer’ on the shooter than the 300. They’ll both have light recoil. The Grendel will likely have more blast, no matter what you do, short of a suppressor.

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hh4whiskey - Thank you for your input. Lots of good choices on how we get the job done. Sounds like you deserve a chance to give the Grendel a chance also. My son & I will give both the Gr and the Blk a chance & we will see what catches his fancy. Starting to regret not applying for a tax stamp yet so I can finish the suppressor purchase.


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LOL....it’s not about giving the Grendel a chance. It’s about the physics of it. They are what they are. By all means, give him the opportunity to see what HE likes, and the Grendel can for sure extend his range (if desired), and be far more versatile. It just wasn’t DESIGNED with mitigating blast in short barrels as a consideration. The 300 was.

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