Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire What Did The Confederate States And The Indians Had In Common

I guess if you consider killing all the men from age 8 and up and raping and using the woman and children as slaves as pestering?

Yankee war criminals burned out Mennonite farmers in the Shenandoah valley.
Who does that?
Sheridan, Sherman, Lincoln... all war criminals.

not to get too far off topic, but to remain here on the earth with all the humans, we know the pirates/muslim raiders did well with madagascar. somebody imported slaves from africa, before that it was polynesian island.

anyways, the arabs as a ocean going group needed a base in the south of africa. they brought lot's of ideology, and needed workers.

later, the french with their viewpoints took over the island. the malagasy hung on to the best of their ability. a small island, at risk.

without good madagascar vanilla where would we be as we tried to enjoy our frozen ice cream in the hot summer of the south?

my point is that we humans don't mind killin' when it's perceived it's a required function in order to fulfill the mission orders.

is it right, or is it wrong? ask the conquistidors, they probably know?

good post Gus. people will kill people for what they have it will allways be like that

Conquered people hold grudges for a long time.


mike r

With good reason,...considering the situation that the conquerers have placed the country in.

Currently,...America is a Yankee paradise,....and every day it becomes even more so.

my ancestors, north of hadrian's wall were denied a lot of good beef that they thought they were worthy of having.

but they survived. the roman legions were not to be messed with, but only dealt with in a manner like the viet cong dealt with the french.

Someone needs to smote them damn yankees.


mike r

The Houston Astros smote them damn Yankees just yesterday! As a long time BoSox fan, I'm usually glad to see the Yankees getting smote regardless who smites them.

Yes, that is exactly what they had in common. The South wanted to leave the Union in peace, and only fired upon Fort Sumner because the Yankees refused to vacate it. The Union army, led by Grant, Sherman, and Sheridan, burned the countryside down, killed civilians, raped women, and justified it all in the name of freeing the poor slaves and preserving the Union. When in fact, it had more to do with punishing the Confederate states for not letting the North and the Federal government tell them what to do, and when to do it.

On the other hand, the Federal government's treatment of the Native Americans ranks right up there with any atrocity committed anywhere, by any other world government......and that includes the Holocaust, Stalin's purges, Pol Pot's, the Armenian's, and others. To put it in simple terms, the Indians were killed in order to give their land to the White man, plain and simple. The same Yankee generals that had helped destroy the South were the main culprits in destroying the Indians. Our government tried justifying it as expanding civilization, but in most cases it was simply confiscation of Indian lands without any rhyme or reason. I don't see how anyone can blame the Indian for fighting the spread of the White man as he did, or for the methods he used. Whites have fought against Whites for centuries and used the same methods, yet the Indians were condemned for being "savages."

You can't change history, what happened is in the past, and the past is best left alone. But, we can learn from the past, and hopefully not repeat the same mistakes. Both the Confederacy and the Indian wars are history, and will always be the topic of discussion. I think they were the result of a Federal government who believed in keeping it's citizens in line.......and that has not changed an iota in all the years since. The target of the Feds was once the Confederates and the Indians, today it is the Conservative White person, and if those of us who identify that way are not careful, we will go the way of the Indian and the Confederate.

H’ell, give it back to the Indians then. Just destroy and burn any improvements made over the years. No more checks and subsidies. I am sure they will make out just fine. Sarcasm😂

The winners of the conflict determine who is a war criminal.

And winners write the books.

So if the south would have won, I wonder what would have happened to the north? Would the north have been burned and pillaged or would they have left alone.

The purpose of my post was not to say "give it back" or anything remote. We can't change history even if we could. I'm just bringing out the fact that our government, which we all hold in such high esteem, has had a past record of screwing and doing away with anyone who didn't agree with it.........case in point, the CSA and the Indians.

We need to keep that in mind, and remember that it could happen again.

Excellent post... As to the indians, consider this; Throughout most of the former Spanish Empire, compare those countries who assimilated the indians and those countries who eradicated them (or almost) when it comes to successful nation states....

Mostly what happened to the Indians was they were inundated by a sea of Whites that no power on earth could contain, many treaties were made in good faith which thirty years later would become totally redundant due to a massive influx of settlers.

This redundancy time decreased as the decades went by because population increase is an exponential process, took two centuries for the Frontier to reach the Appalachians, fifty years after that to inundate to the Mississippi and beyond, just 20 after that to occupy the whole rest of the Continent.

Meanwhile Indian populations were melting like snow from epidemics. Didn’t help any that, up until the very end, indians eerebutchering each other. Also didn’t help that when the Indians hit back at the Whites, most of the victims were women and children.

An estimated 2,000 Whites murdered, often savagely tortured beforehand from the Pennsylvania Frontier during the French and Indian War. Twenty years later an estimated 7,000 Whites murdered, often grotesquely tortured, along the Ohio Frontier during our Rev War. In one of the greatest bloodlettings in North America as many as 800 settlers, mostly women and children, murdered over a three week period during the 1863 Santee Sioux uprising.

The War of Seccession? Two- thirds of the US population, including significant areas in the South, willing to fight and die to preserve the Union.

Governor Alonzo de Leon in his memoirs (1690’s) specified one of the main reasons the natives of Northern Mexico were so easily subdued and put under the control of the church (he needed “workers” not only for his ranchos, but all his running buddies silver mines) was their decimation by european disease.

As a point of fact, he stated it worked too well. They had to import additional "workers" from elsewhere.

Remember the peon system was alive and well in New Mexico up until the 1840’s!

The only difference is the Spanish used the locals on the mainland for their "workers”. The ones on the carribean islands succumbed pretty quickly to those afore mentioned maladies.

Some don't know enough history to make an educated comment.

You are correct... nothing will change the outcome. North won and the South lost, simple as that. But, what most people, and that includes a lot here on the 'fire', dont know is what caused the Civil War. It wasn't slavery.

"Mostly what happened to the Indians was they were inundated by a sea of Whites that no power on earth could contain,"

Spot on Birdy!!! Everyone these days punks on Andrew Jackson as an indian hater. He wasn’t. ( He was a British hater! Killed lots more Brits than he did Indians). If anything he save the Five Civilized Tribes from almost certain annihilation by their removals. He told the chiefs " If I could build a wall 100 feet hight and a 1000 miles long the white man will find a way to go around, over, or under it!” Jackson knew there would have been a war of total destruction against them. Some of the natives were actually acceptable to the plan.
Pushmataha of the Five village s of the Choctaws in Mississippi ( commander of all Mississippi state troops at New Orleans) hunted bison in what is now Oklahoma as a young man, The Americans wanted to move them to SE Arkansas. He said no! That was the land of the Quapaws. But suggested his old hunting grounds in SE Oklahoma. At the time it wasn’t claimed by anyone. He loved that area and thats where they went. He knew it was better land than where they were!!!