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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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They show both units in the 7mm08 data. It varies by powder.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The max loads that they show for a Creed, are moderate loads for Reloder 26. Another option, but nothing special, in my opinion. Time will tell.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it.
A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck.
Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
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It would be nice to have another temp stable ball powder available. Several are very good, as is. I always liked WW760 but, in a 30-06 load I had it lost about 120fps around 32 degrees. Of course, one just had to work up a "winter load" as well as a "hot summer load"...its all fun! 
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Pretty tough to beat the price on the stuff too.. Might have to get me some of it. i have a 7-08 begging for some load work. looks to be $2/pound more than the other ball powders? Or are you comparing the price to stick powders? Yeah, I was comparing it to stick powder prices.
Semper Fi
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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They show both units in the 7mm08 data. It varies by powder. You are correct; I wasn't paying good enough attention. When you wrote that, I knew you were right, based on your past performance...  DF
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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Some of the 7-08 speeds Hodgdon is posting push the 7RM. Of course a reloader can always out run a small block 7-08 with a big block 7RM....  Displacement matters. But 120's at 3,200 fps,. 139's at 3K are definitely 7RM class. I notice that they're running StaBall at 59K psi, whereas other powders are typically around 50K or less for the 7-08. They do run 4451 at 58K. And, they're using Rem 9 1/2, mag primers, but that may be because its a ball powder. Ya reckon StaBall has such a smooth pressure curve that they can add the extra pressure without issue. Or, is this just another way to sell a new powder. This is an interesting development, for sure. DF I believe you're making the mistake of directly comparing the numbers for PSI and CUP. According to a certain regression plot (Denton Bramwell) 50,000 CUP correlates to about 58,000 PSI. Given that proportion, could one multiply CUP x 1.16 to get into the psi ballpark? DF
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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According to a certain regression plot (Denton Bramwell) 50,000 CUP correlates to about 58,000 PSI.
Given that proportion, could one multiply CUP x 1.16 to get into the psi ballpark? DF It's not just a constant of proportionality. There's an offset term as well. PSI = -17902 + 1.51586*CUP
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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Thanks for the formula. Should have known it wouldn’t have been that simple.
DF
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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According to a certain regression plot (Denton Bramwell) 50,000 CUP correlates to about 58,000 PSI.
PSI = -17902 + 1.51586*CUP
Of course that’s correct but to put it in an Elementary Equation for US laymen.......  CUP X 1.51586 minus 17902 = PSI Note: Mr Denton states that is for rifles and it’s not the same for handguns (pistols). Now, don’t ask me why/how ! Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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What I find interesting is 140 gr. bullet out of the 7-08 at 2,976 fps without a compressed load and below 60K psi. (59,300 psi). That's pushing near 3K speed with a 140 out of a 7-08. I'm using 48.8 gr. RL-17 to push a 140 Hunting VLD out of my 6.5-284 at 3K fps. I know the larger 7mm bore will shoot the same wt. bullet faster due to greater total surface area on the bullet for greater net energy at the same psi. But the 284 case has near '06 powder capacity vs. the 7-08 with .308 powder capacity. I'm currently shooting 140 gr. Hunting VLD's out of my 7-08 with BG, just not at 3K. Now if this new stuff shoots as accurate as BG.... DF
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
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According to a certain regression plot (Denton Bramwell) 50,000 CUP correlates to about 58,000 PSI.
PSI = -17902 + 1.51586*CUP
Of course that’s correct but to put it in an Elementary Equation for US laymen....... CUP X 1.51586 minus 17902 = PSI Note: Mr Denton states that is for rifles and it’s not the same for handguns (pistols). Now, don’t ask me why/how ! Jerry Thanks for translating the professor's formula into simple Loony terms that a Redneck can understand...  DF
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Honestly, how are they different?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
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Honestly, how are they different? To you, no difference....  Maybe a little easier to understand with the X rather than the dot for multiplication. That is for us who count on our fingers, pull off our shoes to toe count for higher math... DF
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Campfire Tracker
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Some years ago I attempted to understand the differences between fps and cup. My conclusion was they both measure pressure but are as different as torque and horsepower. Personally I would not trust the above formula to be safely accurate across the various cartridge configurations.
Jim
BE STRONG IN THE LORD, AND IN HIS MIGHTY POWER. ~ Ephesians 6:10
Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
the creed of ignorance,
and the gospel of envy,
its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Have you read Denton's paper that went along with the formula?
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Campfire Tracker
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mathman
Sir, it was around 2004-05 when I attempted to understand them. That understanding has carried over to today. I don't specifically recall what nor whom I may have read. I do remember that various formulas were proposed and some of their authors quite vigorously defended them. None of these, however, fully agreed with nor gave the same numbers as the others. I'd not argue that Denton's paper is absolutely inaccurate. As I said, "Personally, I would not trust the above formula to be safely accurate across the various cartridge configurations." Admittedly after 80 years of use my rememberer and recaller don't always agree.
If the powder companies portray a willingness to agree with his formula then perhaps I could be more trusting.
Jim
BE STRONG IN THE LORD, AND IN HIS MIGHTY POWER. ~ Ephesians 6:10
Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
the creed of ignorance,
and the gospel of envy,
its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
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Posts: 204
Campfire Member
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Just got a reply from Winchester on StaBALL 6.5 via Email that says "This powder will be similar to H-4350".
Just waiting to see what other new powders come along and when there is a new powder burn rate chart published.
Hope that helped.
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Campfire Tracker
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Just got a reply from Winchester on StaBALL 6.5 via Email that says "This powder will be similar to H-4350".
Just waiting to see what other new powders come along and when there is a new powder burn rate chart published.
Hope that helped.
Similar in what way? We need more context.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Just got a reply from Winchester on StaBALL 6.5 via Email that says "This powder will be similar to H-4350".
Just waiting to see what other new powders come along and when there is a new powder burn rate chart published.
Hope that helped.
Similar in what way? We need more context. Doesn't seem like much of a mystery to me when reading that. Similar in burn rate, load data, and temp insensitivity would be likely. What else could they possibly be talking about?
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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In the 708 with 150gr. bullets H4350 and StaBall aren't even close in max. load or vel.
Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam.
C.O.L. Grs.
Vel. (ft/s)
Pressure
Grs.
Vel. (ft/s)
Pressure
Winchester StaBALL 6.5 .284" 2.800" 43.6 2,628 43,100 PSI 48.5 2,908 58,900 PSI
Hodgdon H4350 .284" 2.800" 42.0 2,549 40,600 CUP 45.4 2,724 51,500 CUP
It's a great life if you don't weaken..
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