Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles 1-9 .223???

I am not a fan of fast twist .22’s.. Anything I want to do, I can achieve with the old 1-14 or 1-12... But that said, I have the hots for a full length stocked rifle... Just saw a CZ with at that style stock and 1-9... My use for the rifle would be prairie dogs, gophers, etc... How accurate would it be with say a 40 gr. Vmax???? I had a 1-8 22-250 AI .. It shot 55’s great but I never checked the speed.. The only heavy bullet it was accurate with was 75 gr. Horn, but it ripped about 1/3 of these apart before they made it 100 yards.. I doubt this will be a problem with a .223, but will it deliver good accuracy with lighter bullets???? Thanks..

Not an apples to apples answer for you but I have had Tikka T-3's in 223 with 1-8 twist, 1-10, and 1-12 twist. My bullet of choice in the 223 has been 40 gr Nosler BT first, and Hornady V-Max second, and I also have shot a few Sierra 50 and 55 gr bullets in them and accuracy was always sub-one inch 5 shot groups with any of those. Velocity on the 40's is right at 3750 - 3800 fps, I never chronographed the 50 and 55 gr since I don't normally shoot them. I would expect that you would be shooting them at about the same velocity so I don't see why you would have a bullet issue.

drover

WCH,

It will shoot those 40's just fine.

I have a 1-9 CZ .223, it shoots 40 gr NBT's great. Shoots 65 gr Sierras too and lots in between. Buy it.

I have several Remington 1-9's and they shoot anything between a 40-75 just fine. I also have a 1-12 Remington, and have only tried one heavy bullet in it, a 68 grain HP, and it did not shoot worth a dime.

Yep...

Just cause it will shoot heavy bullets doesn't mean it won't shoot light ones!


Ive killed a bazillion gophers and PDs with light bullets in fast twists...it works REALLY good!

ever hear of the 53 V max ????????

9 T will shoot 40's up to 69's easily......and accurately

Try some Fiocchi Extrema 40gr Vmax. My Ruger Hawkeye AW likes it pretty well, as did a Vanguard S2 1-12.

My son shot a chuck at 225 with it and it blew juice all over.

About $20 per 50 online.

I have a m70 Coyote with a 9 twist bbl that has over 11,000 rounds down it, mostly 40 gr Vmax with 28 grains of H335 in Win brass.

I had it punched .223AI a couple years ago and it continues to shoot well with 40's right at 4,000 fps.

It will blow up some of the thinner jacketed bullets such as the Hornady 50 gr SX's and the Sierra 50 gr Blitz bullets.

The throat is cracked for 6" or so according to a local smith with a Hawkeye fwiw.

Many thanks guys....

WyoCoyoteHunter: Every time I get to thinkin I am the "smartest guy on the block" I prove to myself I AM NOT!
A few years ago I am minding my own business when a Remington 700 VTR (Varmint/Tactical/Rifle) comes along in caliber 223 Remington at a great price and I pick it up.
Unbeknownst to me this Remington 700 VTR in 223 Remington comes with an unmarked twist rate of 1 in 9 inches.
Oblivious and ignorant I proceed to mount a Leupold 3.5x10 variable on it and load up some Berger 40 Varmint type bullets.
It shot them rather well and I decided to see how well it would shoot the Berger 52 grain Varmint type bullets - it shot them even a "tad" better!
Anyway at about this time I get to talkin my Rifle up to a Varminting friend of mine and he relays to me that this Remington 700 VTR should not be shootin as well as it did with the small bullets I am using in it because of the 1 in 9 twist it has.
I questioned my friends contention and we adjourned to the Remington online catalog and sure enough it is twisted much faster than the dozen or so other Remington 700's in 223 Remington I own.
I say give those 40 grainers a try - they work for me (the Berger 40 grainers anyway).
Best of luck to you.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

WYC,

To add a little more color, I have a light profile 16: 1/9 barrel that really likes benchmark behind the Nosler 40gr Hollow point flat base Varmadeggdons lit with the CCI 400.

Thanks for all the info... Bought the CZ before we left for Montana... Today, I picked up 1000 Top Shot brass at Cabela’s.. Haven’t scoped it yet, but we will be home Tues or Wed... I will get a glass on it and give it a try.. Hope it shoots as good as it looks & feels.. Trigger seems good, the fit seems good, now if it just shoots.. I am sure it will with something.. We will know later next week.. Hope to get it up and running before we leave for our annual whitetail hunt a week from tomorrow.. Have a great weekend...

WyoCoyoteHunter: Not to change the subject to drastically but do you have experience/confidence in/with the "Top Shot" brass?
I have been seeing it here and there but have not tried it yet.
Good luck.
Let us know how your new rig/ammo shoots.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

My Hawkeye with a 9 twist shoots 40 gr Nosler BTs extremely well.

"Top Brass" is just once-fired (supposedly) military brass. I've seen it, but never checked to see if it was all matching headstamps. I wouldn't think it's anything special in any way.

VG, I have used it in my new .223 the one before this, it shoots into about 1/2”. Good enough for gophers...

RR, I am not shooting benchrest this brass has been fine in a custom .223.. Maybe nothing special, but it saves me a lot of work when I can be shooting!!!!!

If it works for you, then use it...I'd say it's working plenty good enough. It just seems like it could be hit-and-miss (pun intended), but maybe their sources keep things well sorted.

I was once given about 100 6mm Rem cases, all R-P headstamped. As you probably are aware, the headstamp style can be changed up from time to time, and I noticed that there were three different peoduction eras represented in this bucket of brass. I found that there was about a 20-grain spread in case weight across the whole batch and I think it's safe to assume case volume varied accordingly. That's one reason I am leary of brass of unknown origin.

Shot the C Z today with 50 gr. Vmax and H4895.. After getting it shot in, I shot just two 3 shot groups.. One was about an inch.. But my goldens were walking around in the truck and made shooting a bit tough.. I did some shooting with another rifle, and before leaving tired another 3 shot group from the CZ.. The dogs were in the sage chewing on a bone, so it was a bit easier.. Three 50 gr. Vmax went in to about 5/8 or 1/2 inch.. Good enough for now.. I didn't buy this one for high volume shooting, but mostly for truck carry or night hunting if I get the chance in Texas this spring.. Also, I just wanted a full length wood stock. I am well pleased... It does feed a bit rough other wise it seems like a good rifle... Thanks for the info...

Mine shoots light bullets very well. It also shoots 73gr ELD match bullets very well... 1 in 9 works great in the ol .223 rem. I prefer 1 in 8, but sometimes "beggars can't be choosers"...

BSA, what powder are you using for the 73? Benchmark perhaps?

From experience with my Rem 700 LTR with 9" twist I can tell you if the rifle you're considering doesn't print small groups it won't be because of the 9" twist.

I'm running AR comp. I use that load in my bolt guns and my AR's. It is consistently accurate. I like using that powder because It drops from the powder measure very well, so I can load quite a few (about 300+ per hour) on a single stage.

Thanks, it is on my list to try.

I started using AR-Comp a while back for this and that. When I saw the powder for the first time, I must have jumped to the conclusion that it wouldn't meter well through my UniFlow, so I began using my Chargemaster by default when I was loading AR-Comp. Just the other day I was loading up some .223 for my pig killer ARs and decided I should see how well it really does meter, and I was pleasantly surprised.

I'll do it the easy way, thank you very much!

Loaded some up tonight using Benchmark...25 grains... over book max, but the rifle nor brass seem to notice and its the more accurate than lower charges...shooting at 300, 500 and 600 meters at our local range..

I'm hung up on Benchmark lately, mainly due to the fact that a pound of it is selling at Bi Mart from for like $22 a pound..
Sportsman's Whorehouse its selling for $32 a pound...

and to my Buddy Andrew.....AR Comp is never a bad choice....

neither is 3031, 4064, or IMR 4895....and RL 15

That's a damn good deal on benchmark. I've tried it a long time ago in my Ruger hawkeye 223, but never got the accuracy from it that I did with H335... That Hawkeye is a 1 in 9 twist and very accurate. My m77 mkII varmint was also a 1 in 9 twist. It shot very well with just about any bullet powder combo I threw at it... I don't see much of a handicap in that twist rate in the good ol .223 rem. Recently I was at the range talking to a new club member, he was shooting a rifle I saw posted on the local gun forums (you probably know which one I'm talking about). Anyway, he was shooting a very nice winchester model 70 varmint pushfeed. This rifle has the blued receiver and fluted stainless heavy barrel. It was a one year rifle, I believe. Anyway, this guy is a new hand loader and was working on a "ladder test". His groups were horrendous for what the rifle should be capable of. He was trying different bullet weights and powder and recording everything the chrono spit out. His buddy, who was also a new hand loader, was giving him advice and telling him not to worry about the 5" groups he was getting. He said, "pay more attention to the extreme spreads and SD's". When we went downrange to change targets, I glanced over at his targets and boy oh boy those guys were not getting it. I was shooting my AR with a brand spanking new barrel with 77gr TMK's and my other rifles 73gr eldm load, and working on loads myself. No chrono, as it was rainy as hell. They had one of those fancy chrono's that attach to the barrel. Anyway, I was talking to the guy about his new rifle and I told him that I damn near bought it, had he not bought it, I would have. I told him that rifle should be shooting one hole groups and he said, "I wish that was the case". He said it is shooting terrible. I told him if he ever wanted to sell it, let me know...

What bullet are you shooting with that Benchmark load, John?

I'd be all over that Benchmark myself, Bubba John, at $22 per pound. I've seen some outstanding results with it pushing 50s in .223 Rem.

Cliff,

needed to check my notes... I'm running 24.5 grains of Benchmark instead of 25 on this load..

S&B primers, PMC brass, 73 grain Hornady ELD/M...

gotta chronograph them for speed, but I suspect in the 2800 to 2950 range..
shooting them out of a 24 inch barrel Weatherby Vanguard
& a Savage 12 BVSS.....

they work real well off the bench, shooting at a Bowling Ball sized steel target at 500 meters..

ran out of ammo before I could try the 600 meter targets, which are a little smaller...

will try those the new time I get to steal away from all the fall house work, for an hour or two...
and when they aren't so crowded....

our town has been having a major influx of California Refugees, and range time is getting to be a PIA...
and a lot of these clowns need to get over that "we're from California" superiority attitude...
and minus the ones that are military vets, the rest of them don't have a clue about safe range practices,
much less courtesy.....

so that makes range time a little more challenging anymore...

So you are saying a 1-9 twist was stripping the jacket off the 75gr hornady's?

79, it wasn't just stripping the jacket it was blowing them up.. It seemed to shoot fine when they all made it to the target.. This has been a while ago, I have NOT looked back at my notes to see what 75 gr. it was.. But a gunsmith said I was pushing them too fast for that bullet.. Don't know for sure all I know is about every third one never made it to the target or backstop... Maybe just a bad batch, but I shot some other wts. and brands that did not give the accuracy I expected from that caliber.. I finally decided if 55's were it I might as well have a slower twist.. I gave the barrel to my gunsmith.. He put it on another fellows action, but his best accuracy came from 64 gr. WW.. I could get fine accuracy with that bullet from a std twist barrel.. Haven't seen him for a while to know what is going on with it now...

Thanks John. I hate it that you're having to face all those challenges at the range.

Man that's any public range...

I find a different gunsmith.. 1-9 is not too fast for a 75gr bullet. I use a 1-7 with 75's and 55's

The fact remains, but bullets did come apart.....

well it is NOW here locally also...

guess I can look at it, as its getting bad..

or we've had it pretty good for all these years...

The best times is when you are lucky enough to be over there when its crowded, but everyone on the range you are on
are military veterans....courteous, naturally well organized, and safe because each man or the occasional women, know what they are doing....and don't have to have anything explained to them...

but hey, we are all big boys here... we have miles and miles of forest service land nearby as an alternative....

its all good anyway...,

Its all good until someone gets hurt. I hear you about idiots on the range. My buddy and I were at our private range and some new members were there shooting their AR's. One guy loads his rifle and then sweeps all of us with the muzzle. My buddy yells out, whoa guy, don't be doing that again, or you are out of here!!!!! We don't put up with that kind of chidt. I don't care if they are a new member or not, everyone needs to be safe. If not, they need to be schooled. If they don't listen, they are gone...

Finally got my photos loaded to imagur. Here is the little CZ.. Haven't shot it a bunch.. One jack and some target.. Shoots fine.. Handy little rifle..

Very nice! What scope is on it?

A 4.5-14 Burris.. Thought about a straight 6x, but if I shoot gophers with it, I want more power...

Lots of class there Wyo. Wish they made those in LH.

BTW, deceased courtesy 1-9 CZ and 65 gr Sierra last weekend:

well done.

WyoCoyoteHunter: If you come to my beloved Peoples Republic of California with that 1-14 223 you will need to work on some max loads for 30gr Barnes Varmint Grenades as that is about all will work.

Thanks, but doubt I make that trip!!