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Originally Posted by lvmiker
Many people would benefit from a class taught by a genuine teacher of defensive shooting to understand the priorities and potential of the shooter prior to trying to solve the problem. One or two days of focused, deliberate instruction and practice, preferably w/ video critiques is a reality check that all can benefit from experiencing.

Then buy a Glock and practice, practice practice.


mike r

My teacher spent a lot of time in the classroom letting us know about situational awareness and avoiding a situation where you could be arrested
until somebody could come and get us out of jail.
The reason I might be negative is when I found out what legal costs will likely be defending myself in court after defending myself with a gun.


I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Originally Posted by RJM
...since 95+% of all civilian self-defense shootings are within 7 yards, having a gun that hits where it points is much more important than the sights on the gun. Find a gun that fits your hand, is simple to operate, quick to get into action and in a caliber that you can handle and call it good.

Bob

I agree


I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Originally Posted by Cheyenne
OP, your post sounds very negative. I hope you are just poking fun at yourself for being fortunate enough to live to a good age. Does the government still authorize you to drive a car? If so, you may not need fancy sights, but you could get some benefit from high profile ones.

I am done with J frames. The light ones are especially unpleasant to shoot regularly, and the sights are terrible and, at least for me, required a great amount of Kentucky windage at 25 yards. The Glock 42 is about the size and weight of a 642, weighs a pound loaded with 7 rounds, and is fun to shoot and accurate. With the right ammo, you can punch through bone and still penetrate. It shoots like a much bigger gun at 25 yards. It is cheating to use a target bigger than a 3”X5” index card at 10 yards and under. Once you get the rhythm down, you can do a pie plate-sized magazine dump at close range much, much, much faster than with a J frame, especially an airweight.

I did spring for the fancy Agent sights, but you can get high profile steel ones much cheaper. You also can hang a light and/or laser on it if you want. I carry bigger guns most of the time, but I do not consider myself unduly disadvantaged when carrying only the 42. If you want a dot, the new Springfield Hellcat may work for you in a heavier, 9mm package.

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For me I think the answer is to carry an N frame
As a car gun and a J frame as a pocket rocket.


I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Originally Posted by whelennut
Originally Posted by lvmiker
Many people would benefit from a class taught by a genuine teacher of defensive shooting to understand the priorities and potential of the shooter prior to trying to solve the problem. One or two days of focused, deliberate instruction and practice, preferably w/ video critiques is a reality check that all can benefit from experiencing.

Then buy a Glock and practice, practice practice.


mike r

My teacher spent a lot of time in the classroom letting us know about situational awareness and avoiding a situation where you could be arrested
until somebody could come and get us out of jail.
The reason I might be negative is when I found out what legal costs will likely be defending myself in court after defending myself with a gun.



You need to find a teacher that will show you how to save your life, then find a lawyer after the big problem is solved. Note my previous mention of priorities.


mikre r


Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better

Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
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I had a 642 for years but sold it to buy an M&P340 so that I could stick 357's in it for hiking in the UP. Then Buffalo Bore came out with their .38 +P Outdoorsman load so I stuck with that. I still like it better than the 642 because of the tritium front sight. I've had a G19/23 since 1994 so I bought a 43 when they came out, thinking it would replace the 340. It hasn't totally since it's so much easier to just throw the J in my pocket when I'm in a hurry.

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I carry either a Glock 26 Gen 3 or a Bersa Thunder Plus with Green Armalaser in my pants pocket of my Propper BDU Pants

Also a Ruger LCP 2nd Generation (not LCP II)with Green Viridian Laser in the Shirt pocket of my Propper BDU shirts.Has Ruger 7 round Magazine And Hogue Grip.

Drawing a Pistol from the Pants Pocket aint the easiest thing in the world but with the LCP in my Shirt pocket I have a pistol available for easy access whether sitting or standing and in case of a malfunction.


Faster horses,Younger women,Older Whiskey,More money


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In The Gravest Extreme. The role of the firearm in personal protection by Massad Ayoob should be required reading for everyone carrying a firearm. All bravado aside, there is nothing in my wallet worth getting shot, stabbed or getting beaten on for or for the hassle of the court system if my shoot isn't justified. We had a prosecuting attorney come and speak at a gun club NRA meeting and it was enlightening. Every state has different laws.


My other auto is a .45

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Great news! Apparently, I'm not old yet - 'cause I'm still shooting what I always have, for the most part.......including that "gay" K9 and "heavy" Shield. laugh
Gave up on the GI sights on the 1911 though.

I'm rolling here, over the predictable answers from some of the usuals. 😅

The doofus oughtta be along any minute.......


Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.




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Originally Posted by whelennut
Originally Posted by lvmiker
Many people would benefit from a class taught by a genuine teacher of defensive shooting to understand the priorities and potential of the shooter prior to trying to solve the problem. One or two days of focused, deliberate instruction and practice, preferably w/ video critiques is a reality check that all can benefit from experiencing.

Then buy a Glock and practice, practice practice.


mike r

My teacher spent a lot of time in the classroom letting us know about situational awareness and avoiding a situation where you could be arrested
until somebody could come and get us out of jail.
The reason I might be negative is when I found out what legal costs will likely be defending myself in court after defending myself with a gun.


I think (hope) you’re talking about something different than Mike. He’s talking about the mechanical use of the gun, which is what many people are truly terrible at.

If your how-to-shoot-more-better instructor spends a lot of time in the classroom, find a new instructor.


Originally Posted by SBTCO
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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I'm using a SIG P220-1. I sometimes go with my other acp , a 3" S&W 1911. But the other pocket pistol is a Scandium J-frame 38 +P concealed hammer with lock. It is ALWAYS unlocked. The SIG fits in my pocket where there is a divider in the lower 1/4 of the pocket. That keeps a barrel lined up, never rolls upside down. The S&W Same in the 45. The 38 goes into a pouch that hides the shape and keeps it vertical for draw. The SIG is fun as I was once a revolver guy. It has a long trigger pull but decent reset. I keep an eight rounder in the gun and two ten rounders in the opposite pocket. Duluth Trading Co. jeans are great and last for quite a long time. I don't have to buy jeans every year when using them. They do look TACTICAL though. If needing to be gray then other arrangements are made. Usually don't go to places needing a gray man. I've worked nights at bad neighborhoods in Kansas City in the past. I did one better and now work in a prison. Be Well, RZ.


Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill.
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I don't know what a gray man is. I don't wear BDU
Clothes either.
The only time I really feel vulnerable is in parking areas getting to and from a vehicle or at a a gas station
I have learned.that drawing a handgun from a front pocket while sitting in a car is not easy.


I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Originally Posted by RickyD
Originally Posted by Windfall
RickyD, I didn't think that S&W had the 360 PD or the internal hammer 340 PD in anything but .357 Magnum. Not to say that they couldn't be fed a steady diet of .38 Specials or +P Specials which according to all the reviews most people will use in them anyhow. One review I remember called a 12 ounce J Frame with .357's "a flamethrower with like a bomb going off in your hand." Actually I thought that I was pretty happy with a stainless Colt Government .380 as an every day carry piece and then I went to a gun show in Lakeland, FL. and fingered a 12 ounce 360 PD Scandium framed S&W. I've always liked the option of having an exposed hammer on my handguns because like most of us, I'm a hands in the pockets kind of guy anyhow and I can cover that hammer coming out of my pocket with my thumb, or shoot single action better than I can double action only. That 360 PD was nearly perfect, but not quite because I don't like the S&W lock. Then I got looking at previously made Scandium J Frames in .38 Special only. Bingo. Turns out that S&W made the 337 PD .38 Special +P only version for two years pre-lock and two years post-lock back in the late 1990's to early 2000's. My pre-lock version found on Gun Broker weighs 9 ounces empty and 12 ounces loaded and replaced that 20 plus ounce Colt .380 for EDC. Shot snake loads for snake country or +P Hornady Personal Defense other times or a combination of the two. The guys here jumped me for suggesting that 5 rounds should be enough in a defensive situation and we can agree to disagree on that scenario. That 337 PD is perfect for my EDC. Your mileage may vary.

Well, it doesn't vary much since we have about the same gun. Mine does have the lock and I'm not very concerned about that. Mine is a scandium frame, too, an exposed hammer. And it's 38 only but it's not 9 oz. I wonder how they could get another 3 oz off the gun. I did check online and see Smith sold some 360J's to Japan a while back that are 38 only. Maybe mine was that. I'd had two 360PD 357's prior to this one and I thought it was designated 360 also but was a 38 only which I know it is. I'll check and see if it has a model number on it tonight.

My 360J is a 357. It has the scandium frame with the polished SS cylinder . It also has a red ramp front site.
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Nothing has changed since I drifted into old guy status. I carry the same handgun (442) that I used long ago when I was purchasing rock cocaine daily. Back then it rode in my right-rear jeans pocket, covered by a T-shirt or two. Now I carry it IWB on my left side (I'm a lefty). A speed strip and a cheap pocket knife completes the package. If I'm traveling far I'll add another speed strip. Too easy.
Bob

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Originally Posted by FieldGrade
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I carry a P938 everyday , but on occasion I'll carry a J-Frame 638 with Stripper clips also . I load the the srippers with 6 rounds though. Doesn't take up anymore space and if you do need 10 more, you might need 12 more.

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Originally Posted by hasbeen1945
Originally Posted by RickyD
Originally Posted by Windfall
RickyD, I didn't think that S&W had the 360 PD or the internal hammer 340 PD in anything but .357 Magnum. Not to say that they couldn't be fed a steady diet of .38 Specials or +P Specials which according to all the reviews most people will use in them anyhow. One review I remember called a 12 ounce J Frame with .357's "a flamethrower with like a bomb going off in your hand." Actually I thought that I was pretty happy with a stainless Colt Government .380 as an every day carry piece and then I went to a gun show in Lakeland, FL. and fingered a 12 ounce 360 PD Scandium framed S&W. I've always liked the option of having an exposed hammer on my handguns because like most of us, I'm a hands in the pockets kind of guy anyhow and I can cover that hammer coming out of my pocket with my thumb, or shoot single action better than I can double action only. That 360 PD was nearly perfect, but not quite because I don't like the S&W lock. Then I got looking at previously made Scandium J Frames in .38 Special only. Bingo. Turns out that S&W made the 337 PD .38 Special +P only version for two years pre-lock and two years post-lock back in the late 1990's to early 2000's. My pre-lock version found on Gun Broker weighs 9 ounces empty and 12 ounces loaded and replaced that 20 plus ounce Colt .380 for EDC. Shot snake loads for snake country or +P Hornady Personal Defense other times or a combination of the two. The guys here jumped me for suggesting that 5 rounds should be enough in a defensive situation and we can agree to disagree on that scenario. That 337 PD is perfect for my EDC. Your mileage may vary.

Well, it doesn't vary much since we have about the same gun. Mine does have the lock and I'm not very concerned about that. Mine is a scandium frame, too, an exposed hammer. And it's 38 only but it's not 9 oz. I wonder how they could get another 3 oz off the gun. I did check online and see Smith sold some 360J's to Japan a while back that are 38 only. Maybe mine was that. I'd had two 360PD 357's prior to this one and I thought it was designated 360 also but was a 38 only which I know it is. I'll check and see if it has a model number on it tonight.

My 360J is a 357. It has the scandium frame with the polished SS cylinder . It also has a red ramp front site.
Hasbeen



I shot a scandium frame 2" S&W Revolver with .357 157 gr loads and it recoiled so bad that it would cock the hammer under recoil at least twice on firing a full cylinder. Nice revolver, just wasn't for me.

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Originally Posted by RGK
Back then it rode in my right-rear jeans pocket, covered by a T-shirt or two. Now I carry it IWB on my left side (I'm a lefty).


How does that work drawing from the right rear jeans pocket with the left hand?


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Backup gun drawn with right hand?


"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
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I’m not old. Least not yet. But I think it’s hard to beat a J-frame.

I carry this 360 in .357 everyday. Never felt undergunned (capacity or energy)

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After more than 20 years of trying off and on, I've given up on the 642.
We've had a couple, not counting the Taurus knockoff.
The recoil was always unpleasant, no matter the grips, and accuracy was never what I would be comfortable with.

My EDC as a grandpa who mainly travels in low threat areas is either a Glock 43 on the belt or a Ruger LCP in the pocket.


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Originally Posted by ClearAirTurbulence
Originally Posted by RGK
Back then it rode in my right-rear jeans pocket, covered by a T-shirt or two. Now I carry it IWB on my left side (I'm a lefty).


How does that work drawing from the right rear jeans pocket with the left hand?


Gun was carried in anticipation of a RIGHT hand draw (hence in the right rear pocket). Usually, the primary paw is busy doing other stuff when negotiating a narcotics transaction, so I liked carrying my gun on my support side (right side/pocket). Easier to protect it that way, too. I was also used to drawing my backup gun with my right hand from my uniform days.
Bob

Last edited by RGK; 11/03/19.
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