Home Forums Gear Knives and Blades RAT2 D2 heat treat?

A fanboy of D2 ever since getting a D2 Ingram shorly after Steelhead exploded Gene's handmades on 24hrCF. Considering acquiring a RAT2 D2 for EDC and curious about the RAT2D2 heat treat.

What have your experiences been?

The rat2 folder isn’t a esee/Rowan made knife.

Made in tAiwan. Also heard of fakes being sold.

No idea on the heat treat on the Rat2/D2 but have had one about 6 months and sure like it. Got mine off Amazon so assume its the real deal - think I paid something like $34 bucks for mine and for that price its a nice knife IMHO.

I have one of the first run of those. It has given first rate service.

I should of added the fakes were said to be on eBay.

I’ve a couple of the AUS8. IMO, a great knife for the price.

The rat2 and kabar dozier.

Are there actually counterfeit $30 knives?

Or is there confusion with the D2 and the cheaper version.

Counterfeit d2 knives.

Made in China rather than Taiwan. Ship from China.

Thanks for the heads up on counterfeits. Ordered one directly from an established Internet dealer and paid the market value. I expect (hope) I'll end up with the authentic product.

I have the Rat2 D2 and I strop it once in a while, and it keeps razor sharp. I am very impressed for 30 bucks. I just bought another from Amazon as a spare.

I thought their D2 was very good. Mine held up better than a lot of "better" steels from other makers (Kershaw S30V and Benchmade S90V).

Update:

From all indicators, the RAT R2D2 I received is not a counterfeit.

I've had the R2D2 for a few weeks now and formed an impression. To answer my own initial question, the RAT R2D2 does not seem to hold it's edge as well as I have come to expect of D2. I've use the RAT to skin a meat sheep and two meat goats. The edge needed to be freshened with the fine stones of a Spyderco Sharpmaker and a F.Dick butcher's steel to continue to cut effortlessly. It should be mentioned that the animal skins had a bit of dried mud caked on. Although the RAT D2 edge retention did not amaze, IMO, it did perform about as well as a $40.00 knife would be expected to.

I can assure you it isn't the D2 that was lacking. More like generic shake n bake heat treat. D2 is not a steel I am very fond of, however it will perform when all is worked up properly.

But like you said how much can you really expect out of a $40 knife?

Actually, on a factory knife, I would expect top notch heat treat.
This is science, not magic.


I'm going to per in some Wheaties here, but factories should
have the best heat treat.

Artist Joe Shmo might grind a beautiful knife, handle and build a great sheath.
But, does he have the equipment to perfectly treat?


The answer is frequently, no.
Frequently, he sends it out.
To Paul Bos or another facility.
Where, they use big conveyor production ovens.
GASP! Kinda like... Ontario, and other factories.

The money is no big deal.
Time and temp, sometimes inert atmosphere. Properly done.
That's all.

That would depend on who you're so called "Artist Joe Shmo might grind a beautiful knife, handle and build a great sheath.
But, does he have the equipment to perfectly treat?" is! MINE DO!

A lot of good makers go off of the material manufacturers protocol which will yield a good heat treat. Great makers push the envelope and achieve much better results.

As to " Paul Bos or another facility." They tend to put out an ok product but not the consistency of good or great makers doing their own.

In D2, S30V, and a few more of the common steels heat treat has been pretty refined for the most part. It's the high grade and newer steels that require special attention and more advanced Heat treating.

I suspected as much the first time I stroked the R2D2 blade against the F.Dick steel. There wasn't the reassuring resonance that a 58-60 HRC blade makes.

D2 should be no less the 60 HRC, 62 being about perfect.

My personal take on some of this. Not totally to the OP's point but....

Yes the metal manufacturers do have a specific heat treatment schedule to follow for optimal performance of blades made from that steel.
There is not a lot of room for Makers to "push the envelope and achieve much better results".
To believe that Crucible Steel has not developed the schedule as good or near as good as comes out of Joe Makers shop is a little bit of a stretch.

More than likely with near similar schedules the opinion of "much better results" is more a matter of geometry and sharpening talent.

With poor heat treatment probably both heat treat and geometry and skill affect the opinion of the user.

I have personally hand sharpened a thousand or so heat treated blades starting with a .012" to .020" wide cutting edge.
Those blades were made from a variety of high carbon and high carbon stainless steels and heat treated by a variety of production
sources, custom makers and a one NASA grade metalurgist.

I have lately been using Bos H.T. I have done 126 blades from 4 different steels in 8 different batches with them.
Anyone who does not think Paul Varner is not one of the very top individuals in providing excellent heat treated blades is missing something.
Whether you meet the optimal schedule on a belt, hanging free, one at a time, or ???? is a moot point.

It is a rare person who in everyday use can tell any difference in the performance of a really good H.T.and a really great H.T.
Lab equipment would be required to know any real difference in the performances.

So, again in my opinion, great, good, or crappy blades can come from anywhere.
-------Some sources will always be at the same place in that spectrum.-------

This again is my personal hands on experience and opinions gained from that.
Tim

Tim, You should make a trip out to California and visit with Phil Wilson and then to Oregon and visit with Triple B. Then get back to me about your opinion on heat treating and Crucible's Steel. Seeing that Phil is probably Crucible's number one man. You may also find some great information from https://knifesteelnerds.com. There is a pretty good size list of makers that are pushing what is capable out of heat treating. Crucible isn't the only high end steel producer out there either. But that is a whole other story. Tim I think you know I like you. Nothing is aimed at you or any other maker on here for that matter. The reality is that there are guys pushing steels in heat treating past what has been the standard.

As for not being able to tell the difference, maybe you can not. But there are guys including myself that can. Sharpen a bunch of knives by hand on stones and a strop with diamond emulsion spray @ 1 or .5 Micron and you will learn to be able to tell the difference very fast.

Have you played with Vanex, Nitro-V, Rex 121, M390, K390, CruWear, Vanadis 4 Extra, Maxamet, 3V, 4V, 10V, 15V, or 125V? Have you heat treated them? Where do you Test your HRC on the blade and what numbers are you getting?

If my old timer sharpfinger could tell tales....Grin